G STAR RAM Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said: Such as? I'm pretty sure that refugees fleeing war zones are coming here to "better themselves" (that's an ugly term) - and would love to help our economy given the chance. So maybe a sensible system that includes more jobs and doesn't include detention centres is what you're after? Not sure why we would offer jobs to immigrants when we have plenty of unemployed citizens already? Think we have had the discussion before about trying to understand the reasons why people are fleeing war zones, travelling all the way across Europe before deciding that Britain seems a nice place to go to. Just to be clear, are you in favour of open border, no checks and no monitoring on anyone entering the country? Because otherwise I am failing to see what it is you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 44 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: It's humane. It's benevolent. It's the nice thing to do. And in return for the humananess, benevolence and niceness surely we should be able to expect something in return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 9 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: And in return for the humananess, benevolence and niceness surely we should be able to expect something in return? That's such a Tory thing to say ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1of4 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 hour ago, 1of4 said: The EU have a sensible system when it comes to the movement of people around it's member states. It's our government's choice not to fully utilise it, the same way as other countries do. Sorry meant to post the above as a response to this @G STAR RAM post 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: All of them? Me personally, I welcome immigrants who come to better themselves and help our economy. But I'd like to see a sensible system that ensures that this is what we are getting. I'm not sure why people are against that? and not this post from @SchtivePesley 1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said: Such as? I'm pretty sure that refugees fleeing war zones are coming here to "better themselves" (that's an ugly term) - and would love to help our economy given the chance. So maybe a sensible system that includes more jobs and doesn't include detention centres is what you're after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC27 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 hour ago, uttoxram75 said: They have also reduced NHS, social and elderly care so that low earners have to pay more for care than previous. Lower taxation does not mean people are better off if they have to pay more for services they need. What can you expect after the previous Labour government bankrupted the economy? However NHS really does need to be a first priority of the next government to get it back on its feet. Elderly care is fine under the current system until we can afford to subsidise it more. I am all for helping people that need social care but I spent 4 years working in bank as a cashier and I can tell you we are much better off with lower taxation encouraging people into work, JSA and such benefits are exploited left right and centre. It would be controversial but why not make those wishing to claim JSA do unskilled work for the community such as litter picking etc... it may just push them into work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: And in return for the humananess, benevolence and niceness surely we should be able to expect something in return? Not really. Humanitarianism doesn't ask for quid pro quo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfie Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 hour ago, 1of4 said: Sorry meant to post the above as a response to this @G STAR RAM post and not this post from @SchtivePesley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 hour ago, WhiteHorseRam said: Don't worry @DcfcJB Corbyn is as much use as a chocolate fire guard. He has brain washed 500,000 people but driven off masses of middle-of the-road Labour folks. I am not sure he could get a majority mathematically even, as he has made no effort north of the border and the SNP continue to flatten Labour, and he needs those seats to counter-act the Tory Home Counties bloc who vote for anything with a blue rosette on it. He will make lots of noise, but come the EXIT poll result on 12 Dec at about 10pm ….. ouch So we can go back to the dream team of miliband and balls, out right-winging the tories? Or the Blair days of bombing civilians? Or rather you prefer a carbon copy of Boris, with identical policies? I'll vote for the party pledging to increase taxes for the rich to pay for public services. Which apparently is the same as Stalin shooting hundreds of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, GboroRam said: So we can go back to the dream team of miliband and balls, out right-winging the tories? Or the Blair days of bombing civilians? Or rather you prefer a carbon copy of Boris, with identical policies? I'll vote for the party pledging to increase taxes for the rich to pay for public services. Which apparently is the same as Stalin shooting hundreds of people. The rich pay a huge amount in tax.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 53 minutes ago, DcfcJB said: Elderly care is fine under the current system until we can afford to subsidise it more. Elderly care has been slashed to the bone over the last 10 years and is not fine by any stretch of the imagination. I can only assume you have not had to deal with the care system for a loved one recently. Believe me, it is killing people, both the people who need it and the people who care about them. This is a deliberate government policy by one of the richest countries on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 20 minutes ago, uttoxram75 said: Elderly care has been slashed to the bone over the last 10 years and is not fine by any stretch of the imagination. I can only assume you have not had to deal with the care system for a loved one recently. Believe me, it is killing people, both the people who need it and the people who care about them. This is a deliberate government policy by one of the richest countries on earth. Not sure I agree it’s a deliberate Govt policy but I do agree about elderly care. My mum spent a lot of time in and about of hospital before she passed. Days wasted taking up a bed space waiting for care to be put into place on release.. The hospital was 24/7 but unfortunately the rest was not. I may be misunderstanding your point but for me it was just different areas of the NHS not working together.. Is that the governments fault or poor management within the NHS? Help me understand your last point please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 9 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said: What has any of that to do with the point he is making? The point is, you can't constantly whine that someone talks poo because they have a load of cash and may benefit from Brexit then expect me to pay attention to someone from exactly the same background because they voted Remain. They are from the same cloth but with an X in a different box. Might not be a problem in the future though- Jezza will remove the menace of such schooling. Along with so called middle class perks like Married Couples Allowance. Might upset Diane (hypocritical) Abbott with her son having attended private school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: The point is, you can't constantly whine that someone talks poo because they have a load of cash and may benefit from Brexit then expect me to pay attention to someone from exactly the same background because they voted Remain. They are from the same cloth but with an X in a different box. Might not be a problem in the future though- Jezza will remove the menace of such schooling. Along with so called middle class perks like Married Couples Allowance. Might upset Diane (hypocritical) Abbott with her son having attended private school. Are you quite cross? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Are you quite cross? No. Are you quite Nought. I'll assume with the lack of retort that you agree with all I've said . Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said: No. Are you quite Nought. I'll assume with the lack of retort that you agree with all I've said . Thanks. No. None of what you said addresses the point David Schneider makes: We are constantly being told that people who voted leave knew what they were voting for and yet the two leading brexit mouth pieces in the land don't agree on what constitutes leaving. He didn't say anything about their income or net worth here, did he? David Schneider's background, education have nothing to do with it. And nor does the married couple's allowance (which most people aren't entitled to, incidentally). I just thought you needed to get something off your chest as you didn't address the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gee SCREAMER !! Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: No. None of what you said addresses the point David Schneider makes: We are constantly being told that people who voted leave knew what they were voting for and yet the two leading brexit mouth pieces in the land don't agree on what constitutes leaving. He didn't say anything about their income or net worth here, did he? David Schneider's background, education have nothing to do with it. And nor does the married couple's allowance (which most people aren't entitled to, incidentally). I just thought you needed to get something off your chest as you didn't address the point. The point remains and is valid. Whether you choose to accept that is up to you . The removal of MCA is a direct contradiction of Labours for the many manifesto and will leave millions of Britains lowest paid families £ 250 a year worse off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: No. None of what you said addresses the point David Schneider makes: We are constantly being told that people who voted leave knew what they were voting for They did. Leaving the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Angry Ram said: Not sure I agree it’s a deliberate Govt policy but I do agree about elderly care. My mum spent a lot of time in and about of hospital before she passed. Days wasted taking up a bed space waiting for care to be put into place on release.. The hospital was 24/7 but unfortunately the rest was not. I may be misunderstanding your point but for me it was just different areas of the NHS not working together.. Is that the governments fault or poor management within the NHS? Help me understand your last point please. The number of case workers had been drastically cut in my area causing the system to break down . The coordination between social care, care home allocation, help available at home etc, was very poor mainly down to budget cuts a few years ago now hitting people hard in their hour of need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC27 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 2 hours ago, uttoxram75 said: Elderly care has been slashed to the bone over the last 10 years and is not fine by any stretch of the imagination. I can only assume you have not had to deal with the care system for a loved one recently. Believe me, it is killing people, both the people who need it and the people who care about them. This is a deliberate government policy by one of the richest countries on earth. You need to explain further on this point as I have first hand experience with it now and it has has the care provided has been incredible. What aspect are you currently unhappy with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 21 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: They did. Leaving the EU. And yet you’ve conveniently missed the other part. Did you vote for leave a la Johnson (or May, I’m not sure of the difference) or a la Farage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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