Championship or Premier League?

[Ghost of Clough]

46 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

Sarky!  The context was about exciting games. I wish I had that amount of influence, but Mel had seen the gate numbers fall, heard the comments , not from just me , but many fans. That would be worrying him--and he was probably as bored as the rest us!

Frank won't be around much longer then :s

[ramsbottom]

No point having a club, and play the game if you're not aiming to be the best you can be, and go as high as you can go.

Plus it would mean I don't have to tolerate Quest's coverage each week when I want to see our goals in all their 49in HD glory.  Ian Holloway looks even more like a cider-swilling, country bumpkin now he's grown his beard out...

[FindernRam]

6 minutes ago, ramsbottom said:

No point having a club, and play the game if you're not aiming to be the best you can be, and go as high as you can go.

That's the point, even with Prem money the cash differential to other clubs will be what the owner can or will put in, given they all get Sky payments. So Mel will still need to dig deep for us to compete. Look at Newcastle, good fan base, no investment ,struggling. I think top Championship/lower third Prem is our level. I have spent too many seasons losing games and worrying about relegation.

Last year 12 teams in the Prem failed to win even half their home games, that would be us.

There are lots of clubs who do not aim for the Prem and are happy with their lot!

[Spanish]

1 minute ago, FindernRam said:

That's the point, even with Prem money the cash differential to other clubs will be what the owner can or will put in, given they all get Sky payments. So Mel will still need to dig deep for us to compete. Look at Newcastle, good fan base, no investment ,struggling. I think top Championship/lower third Prem is our level. I have spent too many seasons losing games and worrying about relegation.

Last year 12 teams in the Prem failed to win even half their home games, that would be us.

There are lots of clubs who do not aim for the Prem and are happy with their lot!

not convinced that without promotion our current structure is sustainable.  we can't expect Mel to found a club that is getting nowhere and possibly slowly declining.  

[jono]

44 minutes ago, Spanish said:

not convinced that without promotion our current structure is sustainable.  we can't expect Mel to found a club that is getting nowhere and possibly slowly declining.  

And that’s the point. We have a nice stadium, some good players, an excellent academy set up and we get to watch some pretty good football for an acceptable price. The problem is club income. To sustain what we have with the money available in the championship you need between 10 and 20 million per year on top of gate money, sponsorship, TV money and whatever else.

Mel is funding that out of his own pocket. 

So, either the money at the top needs redistributing or you need to get promoted. 

[ramsbottom]

13 minutes ago, jono said:

And that’s the point. We have a nice stadium, some good players, an excellent academy set up and we get to watch some pretty good football for an acceptable price. The problem is club income. To sustain what we have with the money available in the championship you need between 10 and 20 million per year on top of gate money, sponsorship, TV money and whatever else.

Mel is funding that out of his own pocket. 

So, either the money at the top needs redistributing or you need to get promoted. 

I think the clubs at the top will tell you it's the latter...

[ramsbottom]

1 hour ago, FindernRam said:

That's the point, even with Prem money the cash differential to other clubs will be what the owner can or will put in, given they all get Sky payments. So Mel will still need to dig deep for us to compete. Look at Newcastle, good fan base, no investment ,struggling. I think top Championship/lower third Prem is our level. I have spent too many seasons losing games and worrying about relegation.

Last year 12 teams in the Prem failed to win even half their home games, that would be us.

There are lots of clubs who do not aim for the Prem and are happy with their lot!

You're right, I'm sure Bradford fans are over the moon with scratting round the arse end of the League 1.  Regardless of whether your Macclesfield, Fo**st or Spurs, on the first day of each season, you're aiming for first place...

[Day]

16 minutes ago, jono said:

And that’s the point. We have a nice stadium, some good players, an excellent academy set up and we get to watch some pretty good football for an acceptable price. The problem is club income. To sustain what we have with the money available in the championship you need between 10 and 20 million per year on top of gate money, sponsorship, TV money and whatever else.

Mel is funding that out of his own pocket. 

So, either the money at the top needs redistributing or you need to get promoted. 

It’s not just Mel, most Championship club owners are also funding clubs out their own pocket each year. This is why the media rights was/is a big issue for clubs.

Championship is broken as it is, they had a chance to allow clubs to explore additional revenue but chose to bully them into this deal. 

The only way the money at the top will be redistributed is if they show an interest in forming a Premier League 2, which they haven’t so far.

[SaintRam]

I prefer the Championship as a competition. I think it is more enjoyable to watch. It is far more competitive than any other league, and the quality isn't particularly poor.

Sure, you never see world class players doing silly things, but every season there are a good 10 teams in this league capable of putting on a show.

But that's the selfish side. Or maybe just the lean of a realist.

Of course I want Derby County as an organisation to be as successful as possible. I want the club rolling in money, the stadium selling out after some expansion and a revitalisation of the Pride Park district, and the club to be talked about by high level sports journos and analysts constantly.

But is that going to happen? 

If it is, the first step is to gain promotion and the brave the years of being at the bottom of the pile - scrabbling with teams to survive as they put 11 men behind the ball against billion pound teams, and I'd be all for it.

 

TL;DR - The fan of Derby in me wants Derby to be at the highest level possible, being as successful as possible. The fan of football in me, who wants to just watch Derby in games as entertaining and competitive as possible, is perfectly content if we never get promoted.

[Coneheadjohn]

On 04/12/2018 at 20:56, David said:

not the likes of Rotherham.

 

Best comment of the season.

[FindernRam]

3 hours ago, Spanish said:

not convinced that without promotion our current structure is sustainable.  we can't expect Mel to found a club that is getting nowhere and possibly slowly declining.  

Quite agree, but isn't scrapping at the bottom of the Prem exactly the same. Major owner investment is still needed just to keep up with the other teams. It is a myth that promotion will generate a money tree outside Pride Park. To get anywhere in the Prem needs massive investment from the owner and Sponsors, far more than in the Championship.

How do you make a small fortune in Football--Start with a big one and buy a club!

My heart would love us to be Champions and Cup Winners, but the balance of power has shifted to the mega-rich clubs so it is not going to happen.

[Ghost of Clough]

3 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

Quite agree, but isn't scrapping at the bottom of the Prem exactly the same. Major owner investment is still needed just to keep up with the other teams. It is a myth that promotion will generate a money tree outside Pride Park. To get anywhere in the Prem needs massive investment from the owner and Sponsors, far more than in the Championship.

How do you make a small fortune in Football--Start with a big one and buy a club!

My heart would love us to be Champions and Cup Winners, but the balance of power has shifted to the mega-rich clubs so it is not going to happen.

How many Prem teams didn't make a profit last two seasons (excluding seasons in the Championship)?

How many Championship teams did make a profit in the last 5 years?

[Spanish]

4 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

Quite agree, but isn't scrapping at the bottom of the Prem exactly the same. Major owner investment is still needed just to keep up with the other teams. It is a myth that promotion will generate a money tree outside Pride Park. To get anywhere in the Prem needs massive investment from the owner and Sponsors, far more than in the Championship.

How do you make a small fortune in Football--Start with a big one and buy a club!

My heart would love us to be Champions and Cup Winners, but the balance of power has shifted to the mega-rich clubs so it is not going to happen.

no guarantees whichever way we go.  I could live with a period of yo-yos.  tough season followed by an enjoyable one.  It would take some courage to not panic the money away in the first season and quite a lot of faith to believe we could bounce back but with the parachute payments you could spend 2 years in Champ.

[ramsbottom]

23 minutes ago, FindernRam said:

Quite agree, but isn't scrapping at the bottom of the Prem exactly the same. Major owner investment is still needed just to keep up with the other teams. It is a myth that promotion will generate a money tree outside Pride Park. To get anywhere in the Prem needs massive investment from the owner and Sponsors, far more than in the Championship.

How do you make a small fortune in Football--Start with a big one and buy a club!

My heart would love us to be Champions and Cup Winners, but the balance of power has shifted to the mega-rich clubs so it is not going to happen.

Tell that to Leicester City...

[cheron85]

On 04/12/2018 at 20:56, David said:

Championship or Premier League, which league would you prefer to see Derby play week in week out?

Premier League please - Just not like last time

My favourite ever Derby game was beating Man Utd 3-2 at Old Trafford - The Wanchope game - And I've got more excitement and enjoyment out of the Man Utd win(ish) this season than pretty much any other game we've played

Yes - We're going to get beaten 9 times out of ten by the big teams - But the one time we do is much more exciting than 10 games against Rotherham/Preston/Brentford/Hull - Beating teams I expect us to beat isn't all that exciting

[MK-Ram]

The championship offers cheaper tickets, more games, a higher level of competitiveness rather than the usual top 4 in the prem, and arguably football which isn't ruined as often by diving etc.

 

On the other hand, being in the prem would actually make people down in MK actually pay attention to us and know who these players are that I talk about...

[Turnstile]

On ‎04‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 21:08, BurtonRam7 said:

Don’t get me wrong, if you offered me the choice of staying in the Championship or getting promoted to the Premier League I would choose the latter every time. What’s the point in supporting your club if you actively don’t want success? 

However, I just think the Championship is the more honest, entertaining and exciting league. The Premier League is just a battle of 6 teams with plastic fans. I don’t even care about the size of those clubs when we play them, and you use Stoke as an example of the Championship being worse as though you’ve forgotten that they’ve been a Premier League team for the last decade.

If someone asks me what the best league in the world is, I say the Championship every time. Nothing beats it.

On the field or off it theres nothing honest in football,totaly corrupt.Has been for years.

[DesertRam]

Agree with the majority here, Champ is more exciting, but Prem has to be the ultimate goal.

Then we have to stay up the first 2 years and try to establish ourselves in that 8th - 14th block initially,

if we can keep Lamps/Jody etc. I think we can do this, so long as MM doesn't decide he needs another challenge!

As far as I'm aware heis a lifelong Derby supporter so....?

 

[Chester40]

@David you answered your own question.  

The only people saying they prefer the Championship are ones who enjoy us winning a lot more games than we lose.  If we turned into an Ipswich and are fighting relegation every season then they would quickly change their minds.

My greatest times as a Derby fan? The promotion seasons, the Wright/Saunders era, the Eranio/Wanchope era.  The last 10 years fades into nothingness.

Glorious promotion .. followed by establishing ourselves in the Premier League with the pleasure of watching better players before dashing home to watch us on MOTD bloodying the nose of one of Europe's best teams ...is the whole point of the slog. 

Tbh Frank has given me back the love of  justwatching football for the football's sake ..but without success both he and the players will move on and I really fear how that will look now.

 

[VulcanRam]

Head says Premier League.

Heart says Championship.

After 10 years out, I think we need a bit of time in the top league to see if we can make a fist of it, so right now, I'm going Premier League.

If we go up and struggle for two or three seasons, I'd happily come back down.