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Defensive Coach

DCFC1388

By DCFC1388
in Derby County Forum

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DCFC1388

DCFC1388

Posted
Posted

Do we need a coach that specialises in defending?

Currently none of our 3 (Lampard, Morris & Given) are specialists in this area and I think it shows, we are making the same mistakes constantly. We're poor from crosses, we let too many crosses in and our body positioning is shocking resulting in both goals last night as well as a few comical own goals.

Maybe with all the talk of Ashley Cole, I don't know if he is even interested in coaching, but if he is maybe we could go for a player/coach role with him. Not many better full backs around to learn from than him.

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Carnero

Carnero

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

Currently none of our 3 (Lampard, Morris & Given) are specialists in this area

Do you know this for sure, or are you making the standard football fan assumption that coaches only know how to coach the the position that they played in?

A.k.a. "The Phillips Syndrome"

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DCFC1388

DCFC1388

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9 minutes ago, Carnero said:

Do you know this for sure, or are you making the standard football fan assumption that coaches only know how to coach the the position that they played in?

A.k.a. "The Phillips Syndrome"

I think the key word your missing is 'specialists' in that area. Yes they will know how to coach the position but is Shay Given the best person for someone like Bogle to learn from on how to position his body? If any of the 3 were specialists were so good at defensive coaching surely we wouldn't be making the same simple errors every game? Liam Rosenior was spot on last on Sky Sports both before & after the game about our weakness from crosses, if he can see it then i'm damn sure every scout for teams who are due to play us will spot it and target it.

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Sexydadbod

Sexydadbod

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Posted

We haven’t kept a clean sheet for over two months, it’s definitely a concern. McClaren would be slaughtered if that was his Derby side.

Short term, maybe we can add Evans and play him next to Huddlestone, with Waghorn, Mount and Wilson as the attacking players behind Marriott.

                 Carson

Bogle  Keogh   Tomori   Malone

               Huddlestone   Evans

Waghorn       Mount         Wilson

                       Marriott

 

Alternatively, a more solid 3 defender formation to make us less at risk of opposition counter attackers

                  Carson

   Keogh      Pearce     Tomori

Bogle          Huddlestone           Malone

             Wilson          Mount

               Waghorn   Marriott

 

Shame Davies and Forsyth are injured, a three at the back would have been a good option. Alternatively, you could put Evans at centre back instead of Pearce

 

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Derbyram1

Derbyram1

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3 minutes ago, McLovin said:

We haven’t kept a clean sheet for over two months, it’s definitely a concern. McClaren would be slaughtered if that was his Derby side.

Short term, maybe we can add Evans and play him next to Huddlestone, with Waghorn, Mount and Wilson as the attacking players behind Marriott.

                 Carson

Bogle  Keogh   Tomori   Malone

               Huddlestone   Evans

Waghorn       Mount         Wilson

                       Marriott

 

Alternatively, a more solid 3 defender formation to make us less at risk of opposition counter attackers

                  Carson

   Keogh      Pearce     Tomori

Bogle          Huddlestone           Malone

             Wilson          Mount

               Waghorn   Marriott

 

Shame Davies and Forsyth are injured, a three at the back would have been a good option. Alternatively, you could put Evans at centre back instead of Pearce

 

Not understanding the team selection entirely, why when Wilson plays right wing would you drop Lawrence (who was our best player last night) and put Wilson in his position just to bring in Waghorn who lets be honest has hardly set the world alight this season?

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Sexydadbod

Sexydadbod

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Just now, Derbyram1 said:

Not understanding the team selection entirely, why when Wilson plays right wing would you drop Lawrence (who was our best player last night) and put Wilson in his position just to bring in Waghorn who lets be honest has hardly set the world alight this season?

Wilson isn’t a right winger, in fact it’s probably his worst position(as an attacker). He’s far better as a deep attacking midfielder or as a left midfielder but he’s half as effective when as a right winger. As for Lawrence v Waghorn, Lawrence was good in the first half but Waghorn offers a lot more workrate defensively. We rely too heavily on Marriott’s workrate, he needs someone to help him. Lawrence to come on when opposition defenders are tired to replace one of Waghorn or Marriott. 

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Day

Day

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, DCFC1388 said:

I think the key word your missing is 'specialists' in that area. Yes they will know how to coach the position but is Shay Given the best person for someone like Bogle to learn from on how to position his body? If any of the 3 were specialists were so good at defensive coaching surely we wouldn't be making the same simple errors every game? Liam Rosenior was spot on last on Sky Sports both before & after the game about our weakness from crosses, if he can see it then i'm damn sure every scout for teams who are due to play us will spot it and target it.

I know how to create websites, but I would have difficulty teaching others as it’s just built in to me now, I would get frustrated fairly quickly and end up saying Google it!

Same way as all drivers would not make great driving instructors.

Fans assume great player would = great coach, that’s not always the case, and whilst it may sound a little hypocritical having championed the appointment of the inexperienced Frank Lampard, I see nothing to argue the case for Ashley Cole as coach for us right now. 

If anything with Lampard, Given and Morris, were we looking to add to the coaching team, adding a little experience in there maybe wouldn’t be a bad thing, rather than chucking another rookie in as a punt.

Cole may go on to be a great coach, but as of now he’s a one time great player with a big name that’s only recently been released, and may still fancy another year playing over in China or the Middle East.

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DCFC1388

DCFC1388

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8 minutes ago, David said:

I know how to create websites, but I would have difficulty teaching others as it’s just built in to me now, I would get frustrated fairly quickly and end up saying Google it!

Same way as all drivers would not make great driving instructors.

Fans assume great player would = great coach, that’s not always the case, and whilst it may sound a little hypocritical having championed the appointment of the inexperienced Frank Lampard, I see nothing to argue the case for Ashley Cole as coach for us right now. 

If anything with Lampard, Given and Morris, were we looking to add to the coaching team, adding a little experience in there maybe wouldn’t be a bad thing, rather than chucking another rookie in as a punt.

Cole may go on to be a great coach, but as of now he’s a one time great player with a big name that’s only recently been released, and may still fancy another year playing over in China or the Middle East.

I only mentioned Cole as we've been linked with him and it could potentially be a case of killing 2 birds with 1 stone. He may not even be interested in coaching, was just an idea but in general I do feel a defensive coach is a must.

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King Kevin

King Kevin

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Posted
40 minutes ago, Carnero said:

Do you know this for sure, or are you making the standard football fan assumption that coaches only know how to coach the the position that they played in?

A.k.a. "The Phillips Syndrome"

Shay Given was a great goalie but you could also say Carson has gone backwards since he's been here. 

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Derbyram1

Derbyram1

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18 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Wilson isn’t a right winger, in fact it’s probably his worst position(as an attacker). He’s far better as a deep attacking midfielder or as a left midfielder but he’s half as effective when as a right winger. As for Lawrence v Waghorn, Lawrence was good in the first half but Waghorn offers a lot more workrate defensively. We rely too heavily on Marriott’s workrate, he needs someone to help him. Lawrence to come on when opposition defenders are tired to replace one of Waghorn or Marriott. 

Agree on Wilson, he offers so much more in midfield but the same could be said for Lawrence i think.

Maybe time for Bryson to sit out a few games and try the 2x cdm's as you suggested with Lawrence/Mount/Wilson all rotating behind Marriott.

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Day

Day

Posted
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2 hours ago, DCFC1388 said:

I only mentioned Cole as we've been linked with him and it could potentially be a case of killing 2 birds with 1 stone. He may not even be interested in coaching, was just an idea but in general I do feel a defensive coach is a must.

Maybe, it is early days though, I would be more concerned if we were a year or two into his tenure and making these defensive mistakes.

Not many Championship sides get it right at both ends of the pitch, as we heard last night Stoke can defend but have struggled at the other end.

Same could be said about Boro

Some will probably blame Kevin Phillips for the lack of goals, which kind of proves the point about ex players becoming coaches as he knew where the net was.

Not that I’m placing blame on Phillips by the way, could give a toss about Stoke’s offensive issues!

Might sound weird but I would rather see defensive mistakes than struggle to find the net.

Looking at the table only 5 clubs have conceded less than us, and for what it’s worth we’re level with Stoke on goals conceded now. So whilst it is an issue I don’t think it’s a major problem as yet. 

Would prefer not to concede first but this team has shown in several games their heads do not drop and have the character to get themselves back in the game. 

Last night it didn’t happen, wasn’t a lack of trying, once Stoke parked the bus it was always going to be difficult to break them down.

If Lampard feels the need to add more defensive know how he will, but it will have to be from a coach he trusts,  respects and doesn’t effect the chemistry they have between the staff already.

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Ghost of Clough

Ghost of Clough

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The two goals came as a result of not following their runs. That can be attributed to the entire defence and midfield. Bogle/Keogh should have followed Clucas for the first, and Malone/Tomori for the second. Numerous times our wingers didn't track back to offer protection for our full backs.

It has to be said, Clucas and Ince made good, intelligent runs for their goals.

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