17 Played. How do we compare?

[Smyth_18]

So, we're 17 games in and we've hit an international break to stop and take stock.

Thought i would compare where we are now to previous seasons at this point. I've gone back to one before 'THAT' season.

What does this information mean? Absolutely nothing because we haven't reached February.

 

2018/19

17 games - 28 points - 6th place - W8 D4 L5 - GD +5
Side note: Forest 7th on 27 points

2017/18

17 games - 29 points - 6th place - W8 D5 L4 - GD +6
Side note: Forest 7th on 27 points (cue freefall time).

2016/17

17 games - 23 points - 12th place - W6 D5 L6 - GD +2

2015/16

17 games - 33 points - 4th place - W9 D6 L2 - GD +13

2014/15

17 games - 32 points - 1st place - W9 D5 L3 - GD +17

2013/14

17 games - 28 points - 5th place - W8 D4 L5 - GD +9

2012/13

17 games - 23 points - 13th place - W6 D5 L6 - GD +1

 

In a period of 7 years, i'd say we're pretty much par. Actually working out our average of the past 7 years it is bang on 28 points.

Now for the rollercoaster that lies ahead.

[Comrade 86]

Interesting! I'm instinctively a deal more upbeat about this season than any since Mac1 so I guess that's rather more down to playing style than stats. If we accept that Villa was something of a speedbump, I think our recent performances also indicate an upward curve - the two cup ties very clearly so. Let's hope that's maintained! I still think there's a deal more to come in terms of potential improvement.

[Stive Pesley]

15 minutes ago, 86 points said:

Interesting! I'm instinctively a deal more upbeat about this season than any since Mac1

Me too - but those stats are sobering really.

Given we're no better off now than we were under Rowett last season - and we still made the play-offs under his "style" - that suggests that it's irrelevant how a team plays.

The injuries we've got now and the number of times Frank has shown he still has a lot to learn as a manager say to me that we may all be kidding ourselves

[Van der MoodHoover]

13 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

Me too - but those stats are sobering really.

Given we're no better off now than we were under Rowett last season - and we still made the play-offs under his "style" - that suggests that it's irrelevant how a team plays.

The injuries we've got now and the number of times Frank has shown he still has a lot to learn as a manager say to me that we may all be kidding ourselves

Depends what you value - points at all costs, or performance/style on the assumption that you get your just rewards.

 

see the Haters gonna Hate thread for my dialogue with @86 points as we see eye to eye on this issue.

[Comrade 86]

13 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

Me too - but those stats are sobering really.

Given we're no better off now than we were under Rowett last season - and we still made the play-offs under his "style" - that suggests that it's irrelevant how a team plays.

The injuries we've got now and the number of times Frank has shown he still has a lot to learn as a manager say to me that we may all be kidding ourselves

Not really. Obviously I'd be delighted if we secured promotion this year but nights like the United and Chelsea games are firmly embedded in my 'happy bank'. Irrespective of the ultimate outcome to this season, for me it's been immeasurably more enjoyable already. Look at how divided the forum and fanbase were last season too. Horribly toxic. Sorry, but those stats are where the comparison starts and finishes. COYR

[Comrade 86]

1 minute ago, HantsRam said:

Depends what you value - points at all costs, or performance/style on the assumption that you get your just rewards.

 

see the Haters gonna Hate thread for my dialogue with @86 points as we see eye to eye on this issue.

Beat me to it! ?

[TimRam]

New manager, new players and 6th place will take that. Villa 2nd half probably due to Mount, Waghorn, Bryson out and injuries.

[VulcanRam]

16 hours ago, StivePesley said:

Me too - but those stats are sobering really.

Given we're no better off now than we were under Rowett last season - and we still made the play-offs under his "style" - that suggests that it's irrelevant how a team plays.

The injuries we've got now and the number of times Frank has shown he still has a lot to learn as a manager say to me that we may all be kidding ourselves

Stats yes, but here's another comparison to last season:

2017/18: Go to pub for 1.45pm. Have a couple of pints. At 2.45pm shall we go? Why don't we stay and watch Soccer Saturday? Ok then, come on. Go to game. Sit there bored. Many times wish we had stayed in the pub. Go home.

2018/19. Go to pub for 1.45pm. Have a couple of pints. At 2.40pm get off to the ground. Generally enjoy Derby trying to play attacking football. Enjoy watching young players play with energy and drive, trying to play exciting football. Enjoy myself. Go home happy. 

Football to me is a leisure activity and first and foremost I want to enjoy myself with family and friends on a Saturday afternoon, win or lose. I love it when we win and on the whole not too bothered if we lose.

Didn't enjoy last season really. I'm enjoying this, even though statistically you could argue we are a worse team.

 

[jono]

I've been thinking about all the excitement and yet known deep down stats wise we are par and nothing more.

2 factors make it different and better for me

1) Its much better to watch

2) I have an underlying sense that it will become more productive points wise and some day soon we are going cut someone to pieces.

And ( this is the important but ) every game I think … whey hey Jono me boy, it could be today. 

[cosmic]

19 hours ago, StivePesley said:

Me too - but those stats are sobering really.

Given we're no better off now than we were under Rowett last season - and we still made the play-offs under his "style" - that suggests that it's irrelevant how a team plays.

The injuries we've got now and the number of times Frank has shown he still has a lot to learn as a manager say to me that we may all be kidding ourselves

That may be the case to make the playoffs, but I think we saw in the second leg against Fulham that the way a team is set up to play can make a massive difference.

[Smyth_18]

I find it a bit strange how so many people are saying how bad we was last season.

I can guarantee if you went back on the forum to towards the end of our great run, you'd find a hell of a lot more positivity about Rowett and his tactics.

Towards the end obviously we weren't playing well AND not getting the results. I only turned on Rowett after the 2nd leg of the play off semi.

[Alph]

1 minute ago, Smyth_18 said:

I find it a bit strange how so many people are saying how bad we was last season.

I can guarantee if you went back on the forum to towards the end of our great run, you'd find a hell of a lot more positivity about Rowett and his tactics.

Towards the end obviously we weren't playing well AND not getting the results. I only turned on Rowett after the 2nd leg of the play off semi.

Wolves away for me. Went for a 0-0 draw and then defended a 1-0 defeat and then they scored again anyway. 

I thought then, if this is how much fear we show vs Wolves then we are going to be one hell of a negative team in the PL if we get promoted. 

I found most games last season were ok. I left quite pleased and happy with the graft but never full convinced with our future. And never got excited for games. Just moaned about traffic and the football conversations were short.

Now I hate international breaks again. I just want us to play every day. My focus is on the game ahead and not the traffic. I find myself talking about football much more often and I'm watching rubbish video content just to get a football fix. 

I agree with @VulcanRam. For me, football is supposed to be leisure time not a chore. Yeah, good football and crap results are worse than crap football and good results. But there's no reason you can't have good football and good results. If it's boring then I lose interest whatever the score anyway. Start thinking how cold it is etc. If I feel like we are capable of winning 8-7 then I will be there when we are 7-0 absorbed in the action 

[Comrade 86]

14 minutes ago, Smyth_18 said:

I find it a bit strange how so many people are saying how bad we was last season.

I can guarantee if you went back on the forum to towards the end of our great run, you'd find a hell of a lot more positivity about Rowett and his tactics.

Towards the end obviously we weren't playing well AND not getting the results. I only turned on Rowett after the 2nd leg of the play off semi.

We weren't 'bad' - the points total and play-off slot illustrate the point and you're right about the positivity thing. Whatever we say about Rowett, in that regard he delivered. I think what most folk are saying was bad is the style we adopted and the mindset against the better teams. Can't speak for anyone else but what turned me off most was the indecent haste with which the fella jumped ship when Stoke came calling. Not so much the financial stuff but the fact that he clearly felt that he had a better chance of making the Premiership with them than us. What does that say about the way he viewed the team he himself had put together? It's not really a ringing endorsement. 

[BathRam72]

At first glance, everything looks pretty much like the normal Status Quo. 

Around about the same points and position. Again it all depends on how we cope in the (dare I say) usual post Christmas phase?

How ever where we end up against all the other teams depends on how they perform. So these are only a snap shot and don't need too much reading into.

Although they show were were around 6th it doesn't show where the rest above us were. IE Wolves last year compared to who was top at this point the previous year.

If the stats this year showed us 6 - 7 points clear, then maybe we can say things have improved. 

All I know is I am enjoying the play this year and the positive vibes. Long may that last and here's to a good second half of the season (injuries permitting, - thank god we have a reasonably large squad)

 

[Smyth_18]

40 minutes ago, 86 points said:

We weren't 'bad' - the points total and play-off slot illustrate the point and you're right about the positivity thing. Whatever we say about Rowett, in that regard he delivered. I think what most folk are saying was bad is the style we adopted and the mindset against the better teams. Can't speak for anyone else but what turned me off most was the indecent haste with which the fella jumped ship when Stoke came calling. Not so much the financial stuff but the fact that he clearly felt that he had a better chance of making the Premiership with them than us. What does that say about the way he viewed the team he himself had put together? It's not really a ringing endorsement. 

In no way am i saying i like Rowett, i very much dislike the bloke!

I've found myself frustrated quite a bit this season. It's followed a similar pattern to all those gone by. We get in a position where we can push on then completely shoot ourselves in the foot; i.e Villa, Bolton, Rotherham. And the outcomes were all too predictable.

The thing that has frustrated me the most is Harry Wilson. Absolutely outstanding in front of the TV cameras, goes missing a lot in any other game.

I know i will get shot down for the negativity but having said that i have also really enjoyed this season. There have been some special moments (The winner v Reading, beating United, holding our own against Chelsea, West Brom).

 

Where we are is much better than anticipated, and we can be more than satisfied with the direction we are moving.

[Comrade 86]

2 minutes ago, Smyth_18 said:

In no way am i saying i like Rowett, i very much dislike the bloke!

I've found myself frustrated quite a bit this season. It's followed a similar pattern to all those gone by. We get in a position where we can push on then completely shoot ourselves in the foot; i.e Villa, Bolton, Rotherham. And the outcomes were all too predictable.

The thing that has frustrated me the most is Harry Wilson. Absolutely outstanding in front of the TV cameras, goes missing a lot in any other game.

I know i will get shot down for the negativity but having said that i have also really enjoyed this season. There have been some special moments (The winner v Reading, beating United, holding our own against Chelsea, West Brom).

 

Where we are is much better than anticipated, and we can be more than satisfied with the direction we are moving.

Don't think you're really being negative, I think like for many of us, the way we've played on occasions makes the poor performances harder for you to take, but in a way that's a good thing. It at least means we're good on some days! I'm hopeful that the Bolton and Rotheram type games are behind us now as I think we're getting better at carving out opportunities against defensive sides and we also have a natural born poacher in young Jack Marriott. What we are lacking is consistency but we need to keep in mind that it's a much younger and much changed squad under an inexperienced, if talented coaching team. I think we'll come back freshened up and push on but there will always be days like the Villa game in this league. We've tonked a few teams and sometimes it'll happen to us but it's not the end of the world. 

[Wolfie]

1 hour ago, Smyth_18 said:

I can guarantee if you went back on the forum to towards the end of our great run, you'd find a hell of a lot more positivity about Rowett and his tactics.

From memory, even when we went on the great run which saw us go top, there wasn't a lot of praise for the tactics, as effective as they were at the time. Yes, most people didn't want Rowett to go to Stoke last December but why would we when we were in touching distance of the top at the time?. The results pasted over the cracks. For a while.

There were a lot of games where we felt lucky to win. Hell, we had moans after the 5-0 Hull result. We were so clinical for a while in putting away chances. When that fell back to average levels, the results started to dry up.

Like others have said, I was supportive of Rowett but only because I didn't see the point of changing manager yet again & was craving stability. I didn't go to many games last season but was there for the 4-1 Sunderland loss & I'll never forget the feeling of actually wanting them to score more because we deserved to be properly tonked that game. That was weird & not a feeling I want ever again.

I'm now feeling genuinely excited before & during matches for the first time in ages and the way we're playing means we are going to get a beating from time to time. Margins are fine in our game and if we're having an off day, we're going to get punished for it. So be it.

[europia]

On 15/11/2018 at 17:52, StivePesley said:

Me too - but those stats are sobering really.

Given we're no better off now than we were under Rowett last season - and we still made the play-offs under his "style" - that suggests that it's irrelevant how a team plays.

The injuries we've got now and the number of times Frank has shown he still has a lot to learn as a manager say to me that we may all be kidding ourselves

Fair analysis. Achieving promotion is the best indicator. So the big question is; can Frank get us over the line? 

[jono]

8 hours ago, Smyth_18 said:

I find it a bit strange how so many people are saying how bad we was last season.

I can guarantee if you went back on the forum to towards the end of our great run, you'd find a hell of a lot more positivity about Rowett and his tactics.

Towards the end obviously we weren't playing well AND not getting the results. I only turned on Rowett after the 2nd leg of the play off semi.

It wasn’t that bad, you’re right. I was pretty positive. I didn’t like the fact that we had an ineffective midfield and all the goals came from one source but there were good games where we played well and were entertained. Swift counters with sweet through balls are fine but when they weren’t happening it was a bit grim to watch.

This season it’s a lot more fun. Everyone is involved, there is energy through the team and for me a lot of genuine spirit in the way we shape up in any passage of play. There is a sort of front foot aggressive endeavour- it doesn’t always work but it’s about attitude and you can feel it the way player strut on the pitch ... we lost our way against Villa and that’s probably the first time heads dropped a bit but I think we’ll bounce back, the belief is there 

[TimRam]

21 hours ago, Wolfie said:

 I didn't go to many games last season but was there for the 4-1 Sunderland loss & I'll never forget the feeling of actually wanting them to score more because we deserved to be properly tonked that game. That was weird & not a feeling I want ever again.

Agree, could not believe what I was watching on tv. Shameful.