jimbo jones Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 hour ago, tinman said: Only two players needed. Need a centre forward to replace Nugent and a centre half to replace keogh now. Exactly my thoughts, though I would use the word alternative rather than replace. im no “crazy Keogh hater” but I think the whole league has cottoned on to, put some balls into the box and derby aren’t capable of heading it clear. We don’t seem to concede many goals in any other fashion. A commanding centre half to play next to Keogh or tomori would be nice. At the moment, as soon as I see a big centre forward line up against us I fear the worst. We can boss the whole game, but all they need to do is get one cross into the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Sheriff Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 30 minutes ago, jimbo jones said: Exactly my thoughts, though I would use the word alternative rather than replace. im no “crazy Keogh hater” but I think the whole league has cottoned on to, put some balls into the box and derby aren’t capable of heading it clear. We don’t seem to concede many goals in any other fashion. A commanding centre half to play next to Keogh or tomori would be nice. At the moment, as soon as I see a big centre forward line up against us I fear the worst. We can boss the whole game, but all they need to do is get one cross into the box. Keogh although not the greatest is much better at clearing crosses then Tomori. Tomori has excellent speed and tackling but i think struggles against big strikers so it would be harsh to highlight Keogh as the culprit for not commanding our box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 40 minutes ago, Simsy said: Keogh although not the greatest is much better at clearing crosses then Tomori. Tomori has excellent speed and tackling but i think struggles against big strikers so it would be harsh to highlight Keogh as the culprit for not commanding our box. Correct, Keogh is very decent with his heading but not having Davies and Forsyth has hurt us massively at defending especially set pieces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo jones Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 44 minutes ago, Simsy said: Keogh although not the greatest is much better at clearing crosses then Tomori. Tomori has excellent speed and tackling but i think struggles against big strikers so it would be harsh to highlight Keogh as the culprit for not commanding our box. I agree with you. But as he’s the experienced captain, it’s being expected of him. He’s doing his best, but it’s not really his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Trav Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 We need Alan Browne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 hour ago, jimbo jones said: I agree with you. But as he’s the experienced captain, it’s being expected of him. He’s doing his best, but it’s not really his game. The problem is - What you gain in one area you lose in another... We could bring in another Davies-type player (big, commanding, great positioning but slow and less confident on the ball) but then we'd lose some of the playing out from the back, be more suspect on the break (Keogh still has decent pace) etc We have one of the best defences in the league this season - Let's not worry too much about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo jones Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 34 minutes ago, cheron85 said: The problem is - What you gain in one area you lose in another... We could bring in another Davies-type player (big, commanding, great positioning but slow and less confident on the ball) but then we'd lose some of the playing out from the back, be more suspect on the break (Keogh still has decent pace) etc We have one of the best defences in the league this season - Let's not worry too much about it There’s plenty to worry about with that defence. When we dominate teams they aren’t going to score many goals. But when we play the better teams in the division who we aren’t going to dominate so much, what happens? See Leeds, Sheff Utd away, Villa, Norwich away & even Stoke games. 15 goals conceded in 5 games if I’ve remembered correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 10 minutes ago, jimbo jones said: There’s plenty to worry about with that defence. When we dominate teams they aren’t going to score many goals. But when we play the better teams in the division who we aren’t going to dominate so much, what happens? See Leeds, Sheff Utd away, Villa, Norwich away & even Stoke games. 15 goals conceded in 5 games if I’ve remembered correctly. What we need is cover in midfield - We have no-one protecting the back 4 in midfield because our DM isn't a tackler - Putting a less mobile CB in there isn't going to help - All of those teams you've selected did well by running at our defence and (especially the Leeds game) we were woefully exposed Name me a successful team in any league who doesn't have a tackling midfielder to protect the defence - Even Barcelona tend to have one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, cheron85 said: What we need is cover in midfield - We have no-one protecting the back 4 in midfield because our DM isn't a tackler - Putting a less mobile CB in there isn't going to help - All of those teams you've selected did well by running at our defence and (especially the Leeds game) we were woefully exposed Name me a successful team in any league who doesn't have a tackling midfielder to protect the defence - Even Barcelona tend to have one Evans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said: Evans? I dunno - I've seen a bout 20 mins of him so far (missed the game this week) Is he? If so then great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 13 minutes ago, cheron85 said: I dunno - I've seen a bout 20 mins of him so far (missed the game this week) Is he? If so then great Certainly more mobile than Huddlestone and doesn't shirk from a challenge so seems to fill that role. I'm still slightly worried however about imbalance in the midfield, we need someone to link the CDM to the attackers because Mount and Wilson (as a midfield pairing) are often pushing so high there is a noticeable gap between them and Evans. This is where someone like Glen Kamara would be perfect, not necessarily always being the centre of attention but just neat passes and carrying the ball well to link the whole team together, almost like Hughes did at times for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo jones Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 44 minutes ago, cheron85 said: What we need is cover in midfield - We have no-one protecting the back 4 in midfield because our DM isn't a tackler - Putting a less mobile CB in there isn't going to help - All of those teams you've selected did well by running at our defence and (especially the Leeds game) we were woefully exposed Name me a successful team in any league who doesn't have a tackling midfielder to protect the defence - Even Barcelona tend to have one Can George Evans not tackle? I said we could do with a centre half who is commanding and can head the ball, I didn’t say I want a big lump who can’t move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal is a Ram Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 We definitely require some physicality in the middle. We get bullied too easily at times - shown perfectly by Sheffield United and Middlesbrough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 hour ago, YorkshireRam said: Certainly more mobile than Huddlestone and doesn't shirk from a challenge so seems to fill that role. I'm still slightly worried however about imbalance in the midfield, we need someone to link the CDM to the attackers because Mount and Wilson (as a midfield pairing) are often pushing so high there is a noticeable gap between them and Evans. This is where someone like Glen Kamara would be perfect, not necessarily always being the centre of attention but just neat passes and carrying the ball well to link the whole team together, almost like Hughes did at times for us That's Bryson for me - A box-to-box midfielder who plays nice, simple football, happy to run with the ball and comfortable playing passing football with better players around him - He did it for Hughes before and I think he can do it for Mount/Wilson too I don't like the balance of the midfield when we have Mount and Wilson in the centre together because of that giant gap - Plus when the wingers cut inside Wilson always seems to be in the spaces they want to move into - Bryson is savvy enough to either hang back or overlap on the wing when they duck inside Think Holmes can do that too mind 1 hour ago, jimbo jones said: Can George Evans not tackle? I said we could do with a centre half who is commanding and can head the ball, I didn’t say I want a big lump who can’t move. I don't know - That was my follow up question - I haven't seen enough of him to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Just now, cheron85 said: That's Bryson for me - A box-to-box midfielder who plays nice, simple football, happy to run with the ball and comfortable playing passing football with better players around him - He did it for Hughes before and I think he can do it for Mount/Wilson too I don't like the balance of the midfield when we have Mount and Wilson in the centre together because of that giant gap - Plus when the wingers cut inside Wilson always seems to be in the spaces they want to move into - Bryson is savvy enough to either hang back or overlap on the wing when they duck inside Think Holmes can do that too mind I don't know - That was my follow up question - I haven't seen enough of him to know Sadly it seems though that Bryson's legs have gone. His main strength used to be running beyond the forwards, often Chris Martin, but that system relied on Martin playing almost as a false 9, allowing those runs to be made into space. This season, Marriott is playing off the shoulder of the last defender and so this space that Bryson used to so effectively exploit, isn't there. This, coupled with his age catching up to him somewhat means we haven't had a stand-out performance from Bryson this season really. Holmes would be my preferred option too really, although I still then wonder about being too lightweight because it still leaves Evans as the only physical presence and the only one that can screen the defence and put a tackle in, hence my Kamara suggestion as he seems to be a perfect blend of the 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo jones Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 12 minutes ago, cheron85 said: I don't know - That was my follow up question - I haven't seen enough of him to know Me neither ? I thought he stood up pretty well against a physical Boro side, but that’s the first time I’ve watched him play live. A more combative DM who can still pass the ball well would be good indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 26 minutes ago, YorkshireRam said: Sadly it seems though that Bryson's legs have gone. His main strength used to be running beyond the forwards, often Chris Martin, but that system relied on Martin playing almost as a false 9, allowing those runs to be made into space. This season, Marriott is playing off the shoulder of the last defender and so this space that Bryson used to so effectively exploit, isn't there. This, coupled with his age catching up to him somewhat means we haven't had a stand-out performance from Bryson this season really. I'm not sure this is true - Well not exactly - I don't think he covers as much ground as he did 4/5 years ago but think he still covers more ground than almost every other player on the pitch - He still is a very good box-to-box midfielder and (for me) the best one we have - Replacing him would cost a few million unless we can get Johnson to do the job? Would love to see the stats on distance covered but can't find them online anywhere He's only really had that one season playing with Martin in that way - The rest of the time he's been asked to sit deeper The Bristol City game (for me) typified where we have problems when he doesn't play - Mount and Wilson both playing too far ahead of Huddlestone - Waghorn and FloJo both played on the sides meaning they would cut inside - Wingers getting in the way of CMs or vice versa and the whole are in front of their box becoming chocka with players (theirs and ours) - We look so much more effective when we have some width and when the wingers duck inside Bryson helps out with fullbacks with this 16 minutes ago, jimbo jones said: Me neither ? I thought he stood up pretty well against a physical Boro side, but that’s the first time I’ve watched him play live. A more combative DM who can still pass the ball well would be good indeed. Think Luton are about to pick one up on loan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekingofbuxton Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I don't think brysons legs have gone, I just don't think he gets on the ball enough to influence our play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YorkshireRam Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 31 minutes ago, cheron85 said: I'm not sure this is true - Well not exactly - I don't think he covers as much ground as he did 4/5 years ago but think he still covers more ground than almost every other player on the pitch - He still is a very good box-to-box midfielder and (for me) the best one we have - Replacing him would cost a few million unless we can get Johnson to do the job? Would love to see the stats on distance covered but can't find them online anywhere He's only really had that one season playing with Martin in that way - The rest of the time he's been asked to sit deeper The Bristol City game (for me) typified where we have problems when he doesn't play - Mount and Wilson both playing too far ahead of Huddlestone - Waghorn and FloJo both played on the sides meaning they would cut inside - Wingers getting in the way of CMs or vice versa and the whole are in front of their box becoming chocka with players (theirs and ours) - We look so much more effective when we have some width and when the wingers duck inside Bryson helps out with fullbacks with this Think Luton are about to pick one up on loan... And I would argue 13/14, that 'one season' was arguably his prime, certainly his most effective period as a midfielder. He's not the same player sitting deeper and while yes, he still covers a fair bit of ground, this isn't equating to him having the same impact on games as he used to. Mount kind of occupies the space that Bryson would usually advance into and so I think the current system actually stifles his play a little bit. So yes, I would spend a few extra million and get someone even better in because we should always be looking to improve and in this instance, I think finding a younger individual who fits the system even better than Bryson could be the pivotal signing that really makes this team/system tick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 10 minutes ago, thekingofbuxton said: I don't think brysons legs have gone, I just don't think he gets on the ball enough to influence our play I tend to think he is holding back and doing the sensible stuff whilst others are allowed greater freedoms - team play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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