TIFO football on how Derby County were the biggest losers in the QPR FFP scandal.

[The Baron]

QPR's abuse of FFP in cartoon form. 

https://youtu.be/lgVdt8XCW64

[TigerTedd]

46 minutes ago, The Baron said:

QPR's abuse of FFP in cartoon form. 

https://youtu.be/lgVdt8XCW64

Well presented. Done by a derby fan perhaps. Couldn’t help but notice Leeds on the wage table were down as dirty Leeds. 

I hated qpr before that final. Hate them more now. They could have done really well out of their little cheat. But it makes me laugh that they’re now in a considerably worse position than us. 

The thing I’m mostly gutted about, is that that particular team, with Hughes and Hendrick in the middle, Thorne and Martin at the height of their powers, could have really done well in the prem. compared with the waste of space that qpr proved to be. But we’ll never know. 

I’ll enjoy waving to them in league one next season, that’ll make me feel better. 

[SaintRam]

Tifo's possibly a Derby fan but I've seen a lot of his videos in the past and seen no sign of it until the "Dirty Leeds" addition. Other clubs fans must refer to them in that way though? 

On second thought, unlikely to be one, as he used the wrong badge. 

[cannable]

We couldn’t break down ten men 

[Spanish]

1 minute ago, SaintRam said:

Tifo's possibly a Derby fan but I've seen a lot of his videos in the past and seen no sign of it until the "Dirty Leeds" addition. Other clubs fans must refer to them in that way though? 

On second thought, unlikely to be one, as he used the wrong badge. 

Leeds being Leeds; we are certainly not the only club that hates them

[Spanish]

21 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

Well presented. Done by a derby fan perhaps. Couldn’t help but notice Leeds on the wage table were down as dirty Leeds. 

 

no oblique comments about Florist though so perhaps not

[Dethorn]

Interesting and well laid out.

To be fair though I do not think it would have made that much difference to us in the long run had QPR been fined more, if anything there needs to be a wages cap or something to stop it occuring in the first place.

Or no rules - take the risk of high wages against getting the reward or going out of business - level playing field for everyone.

[Ambitious]

Very well laid out. I don't blame their spending as the reason they beat us, we were comfortably the better team but just as life lady luck wasn't on our side on the day. No hard feelings against QPR. 

The most interesting thing for me is that it FFP is incredibly weak. Not exactly a surprise, but yeah, no wonder there are many clubs not taking it too seriously. 

[GboroRam]

I think we need to get over the QPR game. We lost, get over it. Can't beat 10 men on the day then maybe you shouldn't be promoted.

[SaintRam]

17 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I think we need to get over the QPR game. We lost, get over it. Can't beat 10 men on the day then maybe you shouldn't be promoted.

Whether or not you care about that game still (which, for the record, I don't) doesn't change the fact that it is a good situation for Tifo and other sports analysts (who have run articles on it) to show how FFP is not fit for purpose.

Really, all those neutral analysts are using the "Derby should feel hard done by" narrative because it reads well, but in truth, EVERY member of the league that season should feel hard done by.  All 23 clubs were bringing far less to the table than QPR because they decided to follow the rules, and years later the EFL has shown that (if QPR was managed better after getting promotion) not following the rules was clearly the better option.

I don't sit there thinking "Damn it should have been us" cos that's not how it works. But it most definitely should have been someone else. OR they should have been properly punished. Either way.

The lack of punishment they got is really just promoting the idea of ignoring FFP for the just-relegated teams. Which is a concern for the long-term future of the league.

[TigerTedd]

2 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

Whether or not you care about that game still (which, for the record, I don't) doesn't change the fact that it is a good situation for Tifo and other sports analysts (who have run articles on it) to show how FFP is not fit for purpose.

Really, all those neutral analysts are using the "Derby should feel hard done by" narrative because it reads well, but in truth, EVERY member of the league that season should feel hard done by.  All 23 clubs were bringing far less to the table than QPR because they decided to follow the rules, and years later the EFL has shown that (if QPR was managed better after getting promotion) not following the rules was clearly the better option.

I don't sit there thinking "Damn it should have been us" cos that's not how it works. But it most definitely should have been someone else. OR they should have been properly punished. Either way.

The lack of punishment they got is really just promoting the idea of ignoring FFP for the just-relegated teams. Which is a concern for the long-term future of the league.

Add to that the fact that the parachute payments for the just relegated teams are a joke. They should be ringfenced to pay off expensive premier league contracts, that was the original idea behind them, instead they’re used as a pot of bonus money to buy a whole bunch of new players on expensive contracts, leading to Villa and several others. 

No wonder they think they’ve got a god given right to instant promotion. The premier league have basically given them a bonus for being relegated, which they’ve interpreted as a war chest to get them promoted again. ‘Oh look, the premier league are going to kiss us so much, they’ve given us all this money to make sure we can go straight back up again.’

makes me laugh even more that qpr managed to waste the money they got for being promoted, and got instantly relegated, and then managed to waste their parachute payments too, and didn’t come close to getting promoted. And now they’re in the relegation zone waiting for league 1. 

How do you duck up that badly?

[Ambitious]

1 minute ago, SaintRam said:

Whether or not you care about that game still (which, for the record, I don't) doesn't change the fact that it is a good situation for Tifo and other sports analysts (who have run articles on it) to show how FFP is not fit for purpose.

Really, all those neutral analysts are using the "Derby should feel hard done by" narrative because it reads well, but in truth, EVERY member of the league that season should feel hard done by.  All 23 clubs were bringing far less to the table than QPR because they decided to follow the rules, and years later the EFL has shown that (if QPR was managed better after getting promotion) not following the rules was clearly the better option.

I don't sit there thinking "Damn it should have been us" cos that's not how it works. But it most definitely should have been someone else. OR they should have been properly punished. Either way.

The lack of punishment they got is really just promoting the idea of ignoring FFP for the just-relegated teams. Which is a concern for the long-term future of the league.

My argument for FFP is that an owner should be allowed to put into the club whatever he sees fit, whether that means someone in this league investing £200m in a striker, I really don't care. 

They should be allowed to put in whatever they want on the proviso:

1) we know that owners lending money in the form of a loan to their club is the norm, however, this should be an agreed limit (£7-8m whatever) anything above that needs to be written off immediately by the owner. QPR's owners wrote off £60m worth of debt owed to them, but the EFL said that wasn't allowed. I'm not sure why? This means QPR - the club - isn't straddled with the long term affects.

2) in order to stop someone coming in, offering daft contracts then buggering off. All contracts issued should be guaranteed by the owner. In the instance where there is a buy out or he wants to sell up. It's up to the owner who offered the contracts to leave the club with enough money from the sale or from their own personal funds to cover the remainder of the contracts left. 

I don't see how if those two points are covered how any club could be in trouble, also it doesn't stop ambitious owners from putting their money where their mouth is. Perhaps it isn't & can't be that simple, but I don't know. 

[SaintRam]

1 minute ago, Ambitious said:

My argument for FFP is that an owner should be allowed to put into the club whatever he sees fit, whether that means someone in this league investing £200m in a striker, I really don't care. 

They should be allowed to put in whatever they want on the proviso:

1) we know that owners lending money in the form of a loan to their club is the norm, however, this should be an agreed limit (£7-8m whatever) anything above that needs to be written off immediately by the owner. QPR's owners wrote off £60m worth of debt owed to them, but the EFL said that wasn't allowed. I'm not sure why? This means QPR - the club - isn't straddled with the long term affects.

2) in order to stop someone coming in, offering daft contracts then buggering off. All contracts issued should be guaranteed by the owner. In the instance where there is a buy out or he wants to sell up. It's up to the owner who offered the contracts to leave the club with enough money from the sale or from their own personal funds to cover the remainder of the contracts left. 

I don't see how if those two points are covered how any club could be in trouble, also it doesn't stop ambitious owners from putting their money where their mouth is. Perhaps it isn't & can't be that simple, but I don't know. 

I don't know either ? 

The eternal question is, are they just not considering the simple things or has the simple thing already been thought about and proven not to work. We'll never know. 

[StockholmRam]

I thought I had the QPR game out of my system. Had a couple of QPR fellas in Stockholm giving me stick and " in yer face" stuff for a couple of seasons after...but they left after a while. Years went by, players and managers ( and CEOs) came and went and I look forward hugely to the future. 

However, Im sat at home listening to Talksport one night and the main topic was QPR current plight. OMG the fans calling in sobbing, wailing, bemoaning on and on... Jason Cundy and Andy Goldstein cuddling and sympathising with them. Not a mention of how their club kinda deserves to be in this current plight. Meh.... QP@rse if you ask me. 

[jono]

Parachute payments for those coming down there should be balanced by "leg up" payments for play off place winners. 

There isn't a gulf of class or history between the top of the championship and the bottom of the prem but that isn't going to be sustainable in the all or nothing finance package. Its not a level playing field. 

[Rample]

Trying to call what would have been just punishment for QPR. Docked points, or an immediate fine were things they could technically have bought their way out of, kept in there and claimed enough in the following years to nullify.

A transfer embargo seems more apt, playing them at their own game and treating them like a teenager - if you can't manage your money we're confiscating your bank card. 

However that alone only punishes them, and doesn't make appropriate amends to the other championship sides. 

Blocked promotion or even demotion (Can't knock the Italian league for the way they impose such things) gives more deserving sides some small justice.

To look at it on its own merit, would staying within FFP have stopped promotion. Yes. Would staying within FFP have seen them relegated? Doubtful. Therefore for me they stay in the championship.

The rest sets precedents and do need to be considered against future offenders. Although it could be argued QPRs team was pretty average, another side could well have spent crazy money and had a side would walk the division, therefore what would an embargo alone achieve in that case, so a healthy points deduction, something like the difference between 1st and 7th place, and possibly also a fine that gives every side in the division £1m or £1.5m headstart.

[Rample]

The answer to the gulf is simple. Part of  the tv deal money needs to filter downward. You don't need parachute payments when you get £100m for finishing bottom. 

[Woodley Ram]

I don’t mind QPR I work with a lot of their fans who are good people and I think that QPR are a proper football club , we lost on the day in a similar fashion that we previously beat West Brom so do not hold a bitter feelings or the fact they overspent because they got a fine for it.

my only issue with them and that includes my work mates is that they think they are being hard done by. As I tell them ‘ if you do the crime , do the time” 

I thought they will really lucky to have the reduction in the fine and have been treated differently than others . I don’t want to see them go bust but I think they got off very lightly 

 

they should accept that 

[Will the Ram]

7 hours ago, SaintRam said:

EVERY member of the league that season should feel hard done by.  All 23 clubs were bringing far less to the table than QPR because they decided to follow the rules, and years later the EFL has shown that (if QPR was managed better after getting promotion) not following the rules was clearly the better option.

Leicester also Spent over their FFP limit that season.

[Waffle]

I still remember the bus back from Wembley. It felt like an evacuation from a war zone. Everyone on the bus sat silent. Then suddenly we were ambushed by the group of QPR fans. They’re banging the windows. People on the bus shouting abuse back. One of the strangest experiences of my life