kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 33 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said: IF and it’s a big IF Leeds can keep that level up, they’ll win the league. Right now the best team in the league. Derby very much in transition. I was expecting to lose today, hoping for a draw, didn’t expect 4-1. Our shortcomings were crudely exposed, big issue is we don’t control the game in midfield, that’s the main area we need to rectify. I wouldn’t be surprised if halfway through the season our record is won 12 lost 11. I also think we may concede 4 again at home this season. People didn’t want Rowett shithouse football. This is the alternative, it will hopefully be better in the long run but it will take time and fans patience is needed. Positives - Tomori - what a player. Mount Wilson Lawrence Waghorn all shown glimpses of what they can do for us this season, FloJo had a positive impact off the bench Another positive/negative - Ledley cannot play the 4-3-3. Badly exposed but Lamps knows that now. I do think,and it's completely understandle,that a lot of the rowett players really struggle with a 433 and Frank's system..ledley,wisdom etc are just too slow reacting and moving to perform in it....they are great as big hard hitting units but just doing suit how we now want to play. This really will be a transition season but it will be worth it in the end and yes,patience is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramcoteRam84 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: I do think,and it's completely understandle,that a lot of the rowett players really struggle with a 433 and Frank's system..ledley,wisdom etc are just too slow reacting and moving to perform in it....they are great as big hard hitting units but just doing suit how we now want to play. This really will be a transition season but it will be worth it in the end and yes,patience is required. Not sure I agree about Wisdom but definitely Ledley, he needs another defensive player alongside him sitting in. Just not dynamic enough. I think Wisdom will adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HariboWest Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 3 hours ago, Bris Vegas said: Also, with Wisdom's inability to do anything positive going forward and Wilson being very left-footed (ie. he can't use his right foot) then we have no threat going down that side. The personnel is all wrong. Bryson and Mount being like a clone. Means Bryson drops deep, which he isn't good at. DM is a real issue. Lowe is really poor. Lawrence loses the ball far too often, either via poor touch or greedyness. Waghorn I feel can't play the role we're requiring of him. Works better in a two. We need: GK: Carson LB: New CB: Davies CB: keogh RB: New DM: New Linkmid: New Attmid: Mount/Bryson LW: Wilson RW: New/Jozefzoon ST: New hold-up striker/Marriott Imagine writing off Waghorn after one game, you absolute weapon. He joined about four days ago. Give him a break and then give your head a wobble. It’s not that deep. They’re a good side. We got beat. We will lose games this season, it’s how we come back that matters. All the best for the rest of the year. Hopefully you learn some patience and rationality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 It's funny. Everyone knew we were going into the season as a work in progress. Lots of change. Now when we win, like at Reading, everyone is cool with that. Because they want to believe that we are on the home straight and even on a bad day we are still good. But come off a defeat where we have been exposed for exactly what we are and what we have and look at the response!! Of course we aren't good enough. We have a rookie manager trying to change the philosophy and almost the entire playing staff and it's the second game of the season!!! Seriously, is there so little respect for other teams or just a massive overrating of where we are at? Bielsa is good coach and the team he inherited was more suited to the style he wants to go than what Lampard, a rookie, wants to do here. People are pointing at Leeds saying they weren't world beaters last season. Newsflash! Neither were Derby. We are 2 games in. Lampard, as I said in another thread, will be naive. The team will be naive. Did you really expect Derby to transform into this super slick side under Lampard inside 2 games? Why? Because we loaned 3 top flight youngsters and bought Peterborough's top scorer. C'mon, the rest of the league hasn't stood still. We are in the same tight, grafting division as last year and there's no magic wand here. Its alright sitting there saying you are prepared to see the team develop without expecting miracles but when you have to take your medicine then you can't actually stomach it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, Alpha said: It's funny. Everyone knew we were going into the season as a work in progress. Lots of change. Now when we win, like at Reading, everyone is cool with that. Because they want to believe that we are on the home straight and even on a bad day we are still good. But come off a defeat where we have been exposed for exactly what we are and what we have and look at the response!! Of course we aren't good enough. We have a rookie manager trying to change the philosophy and almost the entire playing staff and it's the second game of the season!!! Seriously, is there so little respect for other teams or just a massive overrating of where we are at? Bielsa is good coach and the team he inherited was more suited to the style he wants to go than what Lampard, a rookie, wants to do here. People are pointing at Leeds saying they weren't world beaters last season. Newsflash! Neither were Derby. We are 2 games in. Lampard, as I said in another thread, will be naive. The team will be naive. Did you really expect Derby to transform into this super slick side under Lampard inside 2 games? Why? Because we loaned 3 top flight youngsters and bought Peterborough's top scorer. C'mon, the rest of the league hasn't stood still. We are in the same tight, grafting division as last year and there's no magic wand here. Its alright sitting there saying you are prepared to see the team develop without expecting miracles but when you have to take your medicine then you can't actually stomach it. Its going to be slightly painful progress but necessary to get us to where we want to be... Lampard is going to undergo a crash course in the championship but I'm confident that he will prevail...he's clever,savvy and determined.....all the classic characteristics of a winner. It does make you appreciate just how good a manager McLaren was tho,when he came in and moulded us into immediate winners back in 2013/14 playing the same system as lampard. He's bloody ruined us and our expectations of new managers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Its going to be slightly painful progress but necessary to get us to where we want to be... Lampard is going to undergo a crash course in the championship but I'm confident that he will prevail...he's clever,savvy and determined,all characteristics of a winner. It does make you appreciate just how good a manager McLaren was tho when he came in and moulded us into immediate winners back in 2013/14 playing the same system as lampard. He's bloody ruined us and our expectations of new managers. Already I think Lampard is feeling the clumsiness in possession from the Championship compared to the high levels. He wants a flexible midfield 3. He likes them to rotate positions like they did in friendlies. Problem is with the constant turnover of possession it just leaves players dead in the water. He wants full backs to push up but doesn't ask a DM to hold. Again, that unreliability in possession leaves you exposed. There's players in our team that can give the ball away in the most stupid ways. It's looking like either he finds a way to improve their decision making and reliability on the ball or he has to put in some sort of protection for us losing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Alpha said: Already I think Lampard is feeling the clumsiness in possession from the Championship compared to the high levels. He wants a flexible midfield 3. He likes them to rotate positions like they did in friendlies. Problem is with the constant turnover of possession it just leaves players dead in the water. He wants full backs to push up but doesn't ask a DM to hold. Again, that unreliability in possession leaves you exposed. There's players in our team that can give the ball away in the most stupid ways. It's looking like either he finds a way to improve their decision making and reliability on the ball or he has to put in some sort of protection for us losing it. Or he has to downgrade his expectations of the typical championship player and adapt to that.....it can still be exciting but it needs his belief system to be tempered slightly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Just now, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Or he has to downgrade his expectations of the typical championship player and adapt to that. I think we really need to play with a static defensive midfielder, let Bryson and Mount rotate, but keep Ledley/Evans/Huddlestone in one position to make sure we don't get huge gaps left in the defense.Championship players can't seem to do this rotation that Lamps is expecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Andicis said: I think we really need to play with a static defensive midfielder, let Bryson and Mount rotate, but keep Ledley/Evans/Huddlestone in one position to make sure we don't get huge gaps left in the defense.Championship players can't seem to do this rotation that Lamps is expecting. I guess this is where we ourselves deal with an inexperienced but talented gaffer and his decisions.... It's gonna take time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 1 minute ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: I guess this is where we ourselves deal with an inexperienced but talented gaffer and his decisions.... It's gonna take time! Absolutely, I have faith we'll get better as the season goes on. For now I'm disappointed, but hopefully as the season goes on, and our new signings gel we'll look a lot better. Weren't Fulham slow starters last year too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 1 minute ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: I guess this is where we ourselves deal with an inexperienced but talented gaffer and his decisions.... It's gonna take time! And everyone knew that. But the first time Leeds smash 4 past us because we get caught stretched thin then some people forget that they knew that. It was frustrating and hopefully when everyone cools off they will see it as just a lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsRam Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Alpha said: And everyone knew that. But the first time Leeds smash 4 past us because we get caught stretched thin then some people forget that they knew that. It was frustrating and hopefully when everyone cools off they will see it as just a lesson. A lesson for frank and a lesson for our fans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Andicis said: Absolutely, I have faith we'll get better as the season goes on. For now I'm disappointed, but hopefully as the season goes on, and our new signings gel we'll look a lot better. Weren't Fulham slow starters last year too? I feel exactly the same,as does my lad who was with me today... As long as it's for the greater good,eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, Andicis said: I think we really need to play with a static defensive midfielder, let Bryson and Mount rotate, but keep Ledley/Evans/Huddlestone in one position to make sure we don't get huge gaps left in the defense.Championship players can't seem to do this rotation that Lamps is expecting. This has to be a player who can play as well though. Unlike in 13/14 and 14/15 we don’t have a midfielder who can also link the play. The #8s need to stay further up the pitch and play in the channels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 1 minute ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: I feel exactly the same,as does my lad who was with me today... As long as it's for the greater good,eh? Exactly, we have a new manager and 9 new players. There were some good glimpses out there, Tomori looked especially impressive. We need to tighten up our off the ball play, and we look like we could easily create enough chances to win games, as long as we're solid enough to defend our leads. Must be said though, I doubt we'll play against such a good press as Bielsa's Leeds much this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Just now, Andicis said: Exactly, we have a new manager and 9 new players. There were some good glimpses out there, Tomori looked especially impressive. We need to tighten up our off the ball play, and we look like we could easily create enough chances to win games, as long as we're solid enough to defend our leads. Must be said though, I doubt we'll play against such a good press as Bielsa's Leeds much this season. I thought tomori was brilliant..the best of the bunch,although noone matched Bryson for effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 11 hours ago, nfb said: I hate to say it as a 40 year weeds hater, but they look like the league winners already, if we had played like they did today we would be buzzing, they passed us off the park and were better all over the park.... But, we know that this is a rebuilding job by Frank, it was obvious it was a transition season for any seasoned fan. To look beyond the scoreline is the intelligent thing to do, and there were plenty of positives, but mainly the loans... and negatives, if i criticise anyone person it would be unfair, if i can see it Frank can, and i believe he will change it if he can THIS season, but we may have to be patient, rome wasnt built in a day. We will meet very few teams as good as weeds this season fortunately, so plaes dont judge on this game ! With a new manager and staff and a clutch of young players, we should not be surprised at defeat to an established Leeds team who played on the front foot from the outset. What was frustrating was Keogh's panic mode, Wisdom looking confused, Ledley looking old and Lawrence returning to 'this is my ball and you're not having it' mode. These are players who should know their role. We've played two games and Lampard will now appreciate the size of the task. We will come back stronger for the experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derbydaz22 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 11 hours ago, Andicis said: Who cares if Leeds are good? We should judge ourselves exactly on this kind of opposition, who cares if you look good beating some dross at the other end of the table? If we want to compete at the top end, we have to be more competitive than we were today. I doubt Leeds will have a easier away game than that all season we were so open time and time again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldben Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Guardiola was right about the leeds manager and leeds will be a promotion favourite. https://www.google.com/amp/www.goal.com/en-gb/amp/news/pep-guardiola-hails-marcelo-bielsa-as-best-in-the-world/1ird9awpucie41px3ixlkx81g8 An old manager gave lampard a master class in tactics. He knew the 4141 would beat derbys 433, the style allows a team to control the midfield. 433 is an attacking style and it can leave a team weak at the back. Perhaps the main proponent of the 4141 formation is Pep Guardiola. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodley Ram Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 I think between all of the different threads we have some good and accurate comments. leeds were good and if you let Saiz have time he will kill you, so we should have sat on him. Because he ran the show we reverted to rowettball trying to ping long passes forward without a hope of them landing. Huddlestone can do them the others cannot. We forgot to do the basics pass and move as well as keep our shape ( that’s the one think Rowett got them to do and they have forgotten it) we kept getting out of shape with players not knowing where they should be, all 4 goals were very preventable i hope Thorne plays in mid week because I think he is the defensive answer in midfield. The back 4 worries me, Keogh is over playing and getting caught and wisdom is aweful at the moment, Max Lowe is good going forward but struggling against balls in the box and positioning wilson looks shell shocked that said we were better than against Reading I still think we will be up there so keep the faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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