FindernRam Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 After all the hype about our new play style I was really disappointed last night on a number of things but one stood out. We're supposed to have this rotating, fast moving flexible mid-field. Didn't see much of that last night. What I saw was good players running around like headless chickens not sure where to run, who to mark, who to pass to. Ledley up front is just wrong. We need a CDM locked in front of the back 4 (3-2-1?). Give defenders an outlet. We proved yet again possession football does not work against a team that presses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North East Ram Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, FindernRam said: After all the hype about our new play style I was really disappointed last night on a number of things but one stood out. We're supposed to have this rotating, fast moving flexible mid-field. Didn't see much of that last night. What I saw was good players running around like headless chickens not sure where to run, who to mark, who to pass to. Ledley up front is just wrong. We need a CDM locked in front of the back 4 (3-2-1?). Give defenders an outlet. We proved yet again possession football does not work against a team that presses. I think that style is the aspiration and a work in progress. Nothing at all was proved last night. 1 game played! Some players still to come in. 45 games to go. It might take a season or 2. With this group, I’m willing to persevere and be patient. Enjoy the win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Ram Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 I think it will come together and takes time. Probably easier to have a flexible midfield in some of the midfields Frank has played in than with Championship players but it will take time & gel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsnip Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 First game innit. Nerves, expectation... they'll settle - in fact they did settle. This Derby team is going to be brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthram Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 10 hours ago, FindernRam said: After all the hype about our new play style I was really disappointed last night on a number of things but one stood out. We're supposed to have this rotating, fast moving flexible mid-field. Didn't see much of that last night. What I saw was good players running around like headless chickens not sure where to run, who to mark, who to pass to. Ledley up front is just wrong. We need a CDM locked in front of the back 4 (3-2-1?). Give defenders an outlet. We proved yet again possession football does not work against a team that presses. Disagree possession football did work against a team that press (we won). They just ran out of steam, having chased after the ball for 75 mins of the match. Less energy is used up when you keep the ball and the better talented squad were still going strong right to the end. Even Paul Clements stated they were fatigued at the end of the match. We had 63% possession 500+ passes to their 280 odd and 11 shots to their 8. And this squad will get better as they play more football and train together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney1991 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 i will probably get a load of abuse for this and I know it was the first game but I was really disappointed with Bryson last night. I actually forgot for most part of the matches he was playing and definitely didn't seem to have the legs but then I suppose it is still early hope he gets better. Also if we are doing the rotation formation then evans will be the best bet for cdm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanoakaram4life Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, plymouthram said: Disagree possession football did work against a team that press (we won). They just ran out of steam, having chased after the ball for 75 mins of the match. Less energy is used up when you keep the ball and the better talented squad were still going strong right to the end. Even Paul Clements stated they were fatigued at the end of the match. We had 63% possession 500+ passes to their 280 odd and 11 shots to their 8. And this squad will get better as they play more football and train together. There is a certain degree of hypocrisy when it comes to energy levels and footballers. Soo many people think having little of the ball wastes energy while others think the constant passing and possession drains players mentally. It comes down to the players in my eyes. Take Liverpool for an example. They have 30 minute spells of pure running and have been pretty successful in there all action approach. You could also look at Reading two years ago. All possession ending in a Wembley appearance. I think Derby are trying to be like the former and really press opposition with a youthful front 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 When I saw the title of the thread, I was going to come on and explain that it was the felxible midfield that was the issue. Slightly disappointed that you're genius enough to have spotted it on your own. First half the midfield was all over the place, bryson, mount and wislon all dropping deep to pick it up lay it off then sprint thirty yards to give the centre half an option he didn't use. It literally looked like none of them knew where they were playing. Also thought ledley was fortunate to escape criticism for his role in the goal. Lost possession cheaply then never looked like getting back, since when was it his job to try to get into the number ten space? Apart from the last minute winner and Frank's classy post match interview, the best part of last night was him recognising you needed a more rigid formation. One other thing. Frank makes it very hard to dislike you as a club. He_ll win over a lot of neutrals with the way he conducts himself and sets you up. No better way to start the season than to win with a last minute wonder goal away from home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plymouthram Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 18 minutes ago, deanoakaram4life said: There is a certain degree of hypocrisy when it comes to energy levels and footballers. Soo many people think having little of the ball wastes energy while others think the constant passing and possession drains players mentally. It comes down to the players in my eyes. Take Liverpool for an example. They have 30 minute spells of pure running and have been pretty successful in there all action approach. You could also look at Reading two years ago. All possession ending in a Wembley appearance. I think Derby are trying to be like the former and really press opposition with a youthful front 3. Facing a good team: A good team, which can keep the ball and stretch the opposition, can stand up to a high pressing system. The can keep the opposition moving and tire them out before striking. This has been a problem of teams trying to have a high pressing system against teams like Barcelona – their superior ball retention and movement of the ball makes them overpower the opposition. A high-pressing approach has been the approach used by arguably the greatest side ever seen in the world in recent times – Barcelona. Bayern Munich (Heynckes) and Borussia Dortmund’s styles – although different – have been also a type of a high-pressing system. Its a joy to watch, but it requires tons of practice off the pitch and brilliant mental concentration on it. Along with that, it requires all 11 players to be good on the ball and being able to win the ball back. It requires a lot of stamina for the players to last this for 90 minutes and it can backfire on teams that tire out. Thus, many teams alternate by pressing ferociously initially before gradually tiring out and playing deeper late on. While we admire the brilliant passing and attacking flair in Barcelona and Borussia Dortmund, equally impressive is their work off the ball to make sure they keep the ball and create those chances. COPIED : From an article on soccer tactics, I am not trying to say we are like Barcelona, but i do think that style of play is what Frank and the coaching team are trying to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney1991 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 When ledley gave the ball away he was actually the deepest midfielder he passes it to there player and then decides to fall over and do a roley poley on the half turn and then decides to half pace jog back in which time mount and Bryson are already past him. Not overley convinced with ledley at all from the point he only seems to want to pass the ball sideways or 1 metre. Last night showed me how much we miss the fit thorne from that end of season loan spell in which we reached Wembley. I mean the fit thorne if we are to play the 4 3 3 for the rest of the season in which someone with vision and at least a bit of energy to get back and cover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marriot Ram99 Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 I' m hoping evans is good, because with the lack of mobility hudds and ledley have evans may have to play a lot of games this season as if we are to trying to play with just the one defensive minded midfielder and accommodate for mounts lack of defensive ability we need someone who can cover ground and win the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanoakaram4life Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 41 minutes ago, plymouthram said: Facing a good team: A good team, which can keep the ball and stretch the opposition, can stand up to a high pressing system. The can keep the opposition moving and tire them out before striking. This has been a problem of teams trying to have a high pressing system against teams like Barcelona – their superior ball retention and movement of the ball makes them overpower the opposition. A high-pressing approach has been the approach used by arguably the greatest side ever seen in the world in recent times – Barcelona. Bayern Munich (Heynckes) and Borussia Dortmund’s styles – although different – have been also a type of a high-pressing system. Its a joy to watch, but it requires tons of practice off the pitch and brilliant mental concentration on it. Along with that, it requires all 11 players to be good on the ball and being able to win the ball back. It requires a lot of stamina for the players to last this for 90 minutes and it can backfire on teams that tire out. Thus, many teams alternate by pressing ferociously initially before gradually tiring out and playing deeper late on. While we admire the brilliant passing and attacking flair in Barcelona and Borussia Dortmund, equally impressive is their work off the ball to make sure they keep the ball and create those chances. COPIED : From an article on soccer tactics, I am not trying to say we are like Barcelona, but i do think that style of play is what Frank and the coaching team are trying to achieve. Good post mate, very in depth for a Saturday night. I look at our midfield and I look at Ledley in particular and I think that we are crying out for a holding midfielder who is comfortable on the ball. Against Leeds I'd play Huddlestone 100%. He's a Rolls Royce of a Cm with the best passing ability in the Champ. With him holding and the youthful additions we've aquired (Mount, Wilson, Marriott) buzzing up front, I think we can cause a load of damage to any opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 I am not disappointed. Winning is the aim and we are trying to play good football. After 6 matches we will need to have 14 points to keep in top three. How we get them is not so important. We must not let two teams get away from us. Reasonable first six fixtures. Danger sign is slack passing. Passing the ball many times in our half with opposition not chasing the ball does not tire them. Lampard will not tolerate players with slack passing that leads to conceding goals. Keogh got away with it so no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted August 4, 2018 Share Posted August 4, 2018 So we had a poor 45. Big deal. It was 0-0 at half-time - no damage done. we sorted it and we were the better team in the second half. Valuable lessons were learned. we can play better but Ledley was injured and that was also a big factor. you can see he is really struggling to get back for their goal. we just need those who can't play, to give the ball to those who can play. asap. End of lesson. (Brian Clough chapter one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Think the midfield was too flexible last night myself, unsure whether that’s the OPs point but it certainly seemed the second biggest issue to sort, after the sheer idiocy of morcambe and wise passing out the back at centre half. Rotation and fluency is good in the two in front imo, it keeps the opposition guessing and presents good chances if the movement is into space. HOWEVER, the cdm should not regularly rotate with the two in front in the system imo, it leaves us too isolated at the back and allows us to be cut open on the counter as last night proves. The occasional carry of the ball forward from cdm is one thing, but ledley being on the edge of the box and Bryson covering the centre backs is quite another. Must have more structure against Leeds or well be cut apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 On 04/08/2018 at 12:09, FindernRam said: After all the hype about our new play style I was really disappointed last night on a number of things but one stood out. We're supposed to have this rotating, fast moving flexible mid-field. Didn't see much of that last night. What I saw was good players running around like headless chickens not sure where to run, who to mark, who to pass to. Ledley up front is just wrong. We need a CDM locked in front of the back 4 (3-2-1?). Give defenders an outlet. We proved yet again possession football does not work against a team that presses. Yes it's very much work in progress. Against a better team, it would have been game over by half time. We will probably lose / draw more than we win until a successful formation is found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramchop Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 I think the idea is that against a pressing team, Huddlestone gets isolated and pressed out of the game. There's no one player for the opposition to mark with a rotating midfield Against teams who sit back, a lesser mobile CDM has the time to pick out either runner in the channel or either wide player. This is where Huddlestone will shine if he gets the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted August 6, 2018 Author Share Posted August 6, 2018 Watched Leeds run rings around Stoke yesterday and they won it from midfield. I think we will be in deep trouble if our midfield on Saturday does not have a gameplan to stop them, and that means man marking, doubling up on the man with the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 It may need to be an organised rotation rather than what we saw Friday. Either by the two #8s dropping deep and the #6 pushing up (effectively turning a 1-2 into a 2-1) or we sign a Hughes type linker who can drop deep and play further forward whilst leaving Mount constantly further up the pitch when in possession . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted August 6, 2018 Share Posted August 6, 2018 It’s so easy to look classy and in control in pre-season against opposition which doesn’t have much interest in showing intensity before the competitive action starts. In a competitive game, I think Ledley isn’t suited to being the pivotal CDM in a 4-3-3. I’d like to see someone who’s willing to use their passing range in that way. As for the midfield in general, pre-season turned out to be useless preparation for the first game. That’s the first time they’ve played against opposition on their heals and they would have learned a lot from Friday night. Reading looked like early-season huff and puffers to me. Opening months of the season is a bit like a cycling race, where you get a breakaway group which sprints away from the main pack. They’ll be swallowed by the peloton if they try to play 45 more games like that. We’ll be picking teams off in winter if we continue to be patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.