BondJovi Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Mistakes will happen when playing out from the back. If the GK makes the mistake it will almost certainly be a goal, see Lloris in the World Cup final, one of the worlds best with the ball at his feet for a GK. We aren't a world class team, our players are in this league because they have limitations or are still just potential. I don't think Carson has bad distribution but it is not his strength. I don't believe we would get a better player all round unless we were a top 10 Premier League side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, Bigfella said: I think we are fortunate to have Scott Carson and there are not many keepers I would swap him for in the Championship or the Premier League come to that. I get that its a 'debate' but I think all this emphasis on the keeper playing it out from the back like fooking Beckenbauer misses what is their primary role. I'd rather Carson commanded his area than dribbled down the pitch! So just out of interest Bigfella who in the Championship would you swap Carson for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfella Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: I get that its a 'debate' but I think all this emphasis on the keeper playing it out from the back like fooking Beckenbauer misses what is their primary role. I'd rather Carson commanded his area than dribbled down the pitch! So just out of interest Bigfella who in the Championship would you swap Carson for? I agree with you and that was what I was implying- evidently not very effectively! If you read my post again you will see that I don’t believe we could swap him for someone better or that is what I meant obviously in a clumsy manner! ” I think we are fortunate to have Scott Carson and there are not many keepers I would swap him for in the Championship or the Premier League come to that.” I think we actually agree that Carson is a good fit for Derby and vice versa so sorry if I confused the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bigfella said: I agree with you and that was what I was implying- evidently not very effectively! If you read my post again you will see that I don’t believe we could swap him for someone better or that is what I meant obviously in a clumsy manner! Oh I get what you meant but wondered if you should have emphasised more just who we could replace him with - now I'm doing it, I mean I don't know many better keepers at our/Prem level. Doh. Got ya! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 28 minutes ago, Bigfella said: I think we are fortunate to have Scott Carson and there are not many keepers I would swap him for in the Championship or the Premier League come to that. 6 minutes ago, Bigfella said: If you read my post again you will see that I don’t believe we could swap him for someone better or that is what I meant obviously in a clumsy manner! Make your mind up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfella Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Oh I get what you meant but wondered if you should have emphasised more just who we could replace him with - now I'm doing it, I mean I don't know many better keepers at our/Prem level. Doh. Got ya! ? No problem - I’m new to this stuff so I’m probably not being clear enough! I’ll improve! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfella Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Sorry Ghost of Clough - I was in two minds whether to respond to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Key Club King Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 I think Carson's distribution is actually pretty good. It appeared to me that his last few managers at Derby have asked him to hit one particular target - usually one of the full-backs (Forsyth, Christie, Wisdom) - as our forwards are unlikely to win it in the air against most opposing centre-halves. Aiming at one target rather than an area is always going to be difficult. I think most fans have a blind spot when it comes to their goalkeeper. Most teams think they have one of the best in the division as they consistently "save" their team. I remember thinking Bywater was brilliant the year we got promoted under Billy Davies. Watching the review of the season, I realised that he was actually pretty average. Jordan Pickford annoyed the hell out of me at the world cup by making routine saves look spectacular. Even the actual quality saves he made looked better than they were because he is quite small for a modern goalkeeper. Though I'll forgive him for anything for that penalty save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfella Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 21 minutes ago, Andicis said: . I see your point now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 59 minutes ago, The Key Club King said: I think Carson's distribution is actually pretty good. I agree, although I think it was better the season before last partly because we hadn't yet gone full-on Rowettball where everything became a bit more condensed in our own half. I really don't think he puts it out of play any more than any other keeper in this league, and even though he seemed to have a few more dodgy moments last season I'd still only need one hand to count the number of times his clearances/balls out ever put us in danger. There are some awful, panicky keepers at this level, some proper splicers, he isn't usually one of them. We were a counter attacking team who sat back, when Carson got the ball in his hands the opposition were pressed high up against Keogh & Davies, sometimes marking Huddlestone too. At times there seemed expectation that he should be splaying the ball about like the aforementioned Huddlestone, but even he has his off days where he'll punt 3 or 4 balls straight out of play. Sometimes Carson's only available options were those 30-40 yard passes or throws - either that or pass the ball to Bradley Johnson (few opposition were stupid enough to think they needed to mark him). I'd wager he had to fill the role of starting a counter attack with direct defence>attack passes/throws more than any other keeper in the league and there were numerous occasions when he did this very well indeed. How many other Championship keepers has anyone seen play a ball like the one Carson did to Ince vs Birmingham? It's not something most of them at this level even have the ability to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 5 hours ago, ramsbottom said: Looks like the wrist slashers are finding the littlest thing to whinge about after Saturday's performance. If it wasn't for Carson's contributions, we'd have been nowhere near the play offs last season. He's absolute class... They're not. The original post was full of praise and opened a discussion. Then the 'happy clappers' closed it down by calling it moaning when everyone knows Carson isn't the most comfortable with the ball at his feet I mean I'd be sad to see Carson go or even drop to the bench because he's composed and a good shot stopper. He's not a guy that punches every ball either. But I can see the point of the thread. Ironically the anti moaners have jumped in to moan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 24 minutes ago, Alpha said: They're not. The original post was full of praise and opened a discussion. Then the 'happy clappers' closed it down by calling it moaning when everyone knows Carson isn't the most comfortable with the ball at his feet I mean I'd be sad to see Carson go or even drop to the bench because he's composed and a good shot stopper. He's not a guy that punches every ball either. But I can see the point of the thread. Ironically the anti moaners have jumped in to moan I reckon he's making a mountain out of a mole hill. Carson kicked long a lot more last season due to Rowett-Ball. This season he'll be playing it to either full back or a centre back the majority of the time, a 30 yard pass at most. he'll be fine... Feel free to save this when he shanks it straight to a Leeds player for a tap in, come the second game of the season ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 26 minutes ago, Alpha said: But I can see the point of the thread. Ironically the anti moaners have jumped in to moan I'm still waiting to hear of an affordable keeper that's better than Carson with his feet & hands, then there can be a discussion as far as I can see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramcoteRam84 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 There are goalkeepers with better distribution than Carson, but I can’t think of many in this league. Some People seem to remember the ones he kicked out of play but forget the ones where he found his man and set us on attacks, or like the Ince goal against Brum as someone else has already mentioned. Best shot stopper, great command of his box, extremely calm, good distribution. Best keeper in the league and could even still end up as the best we’ve ever had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 3 hours ago, The Key Club King said: I think Carson's distribution is actually pretty good. It appeared to me that his last few managers at Derby have asked him to hit one particular target - usually one of the full-backs (Forsyth, Christie, Wisdom) - as our forwards are unlikely to win it in the air against most opposing centre-halves. Aiming at one target rather than an area is always going to be difficult. I think most fans have a blind spot when it comes to their goalkeeper. Most teams think they have one of the best in the division as they consistently "save" their team. I remember thinking Bywater was brilliant the year we got promoted under Billy Davies. Watching the review of the season, I realised that he was actually pretty average. Jordan Pickford annoyed the hell out of me at the world cup by making routine saves look spectacular. Even the actual quality saves he made looked better than they were because he is quite small for a modern goalkeeper. Though I'll forgive him for anything for that penalty save. 2 That's something which annoys me big time too. Grant, the volleyball player, had the same habit. Worst of them show ponies was Antti Niemi. Boy did he put some air to his saves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram1964 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Best keeper we've had since Poom, probably too ten in the country and consistent. Wouldn't want to see him leave unless we got serious money for him and he was to go to a top flight club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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