Matej Vydra - Signed for Burnley

[RamNut]

1 hour ago, chelloram said:

I don't get all the anti Vydra sentiment. 

Come on mate get with it.

we're going to have a lethal front five.

lawrence, marriott, wilson, mount, and bryson....and josefzoon, bennett, thomas, elsnik, johnson, waghorn, and nugent.....and martin

and jerome  

no way vydra could possibly fit in.

[LB_DCFC]

9 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

MV makes goals out of nothing.

 

Hence the phrase 'pure goalscorer', but you can't tell me that he is excellent at anything else. good with the ball at his feet in moments, but then in moments the ball will get lost under his feet and then he'll lose it, sometimes plays a good pass, but sometimes will turnover the ball cheaply (like most at this level to be fair) but is excellent at finishing. Chris Martin is excellent at not only finishing but holding the ball up and bringing others in to play.  I thought he was great last season and loved him, but for me the positives from selling him outweigh the negatives. 

[Bob The Badger]

8 minutes ago, LB_DCFC said:

Hence the phrase 'pure goalscorer', but you can't tell me that he is excellent at anything else. good with the ball at his feet in moments, but then in moments the ball will get lost under his feet and then he'll lose it, sometimes plays a good pass, but sometimes will turnover the ball cheaply (like most at this level to be fair) but is excellent at finishing. Chris Martin is excellent at not only finishing but holding the ball up and bringing others in to play.  I thought he was great last season and loved him, but for me the positives from selling him outweigh the negatives. 

Yeh I can, he's excellent at dragging defenders out of space.

But that's not the point, most of the players I listed who are considered to be great (CM notwithstanding) were often maligned for doing nothing but score goals.

I'm not saying we should keep him. But I am just saying it's ridiculous to base an argument on 'he's just a pure goal scorer'. 

I've been watching Derby since 1969, and in that time we haven't had that many players who could create something out of nothing like he could.

[chelloram]

8 minutes ago, RamNut said:

Come on mate get with it.

we're going to have a lethal front five.

lawrence, marriott, wilson, mount, and bryson....and josefzoon, bennett, thomas, elsnik, johnson, waghorn, and nugent.....and martin

and jerome  

no way vydra could possibly fit in.

The poor lads gone from numero uno to number 15 in line in 3 months??. 

Hey I'm not saying Lampard doesn't have his reasons, I.e. getting 2 or 3 additional players with the funds raised etc.. and I get that totally. I just don't understand why the board seems to have turned against him. Couldn't that front 5 just as easily include Vydra. He clearly isn't in the plans but I still feel he's a much better player than one of the players in that 5 you've mentioned above. Good players can learn to adapt to systems, especially if they have equally intelligent players around them,  I'm not convinced Lawrence can but we'll see. We all love Bryson but do we really expect to get a season out of him now? 

[DazzaRam]

Its horses for courses. Last the season the way Rowett had us set up suited Vydra but didn't suit Bryson. That's why he was let go. This season and the way Lampard wants to play suits Bryson but I don't think Vydra works hard enough to play it. Its an easy decision for Lampard to sacrifice Vydra to get the players more suited. Its not to say Vydra is all of a sudden a poor player.

 

[Carl Sagan]

1 hour ago, chelloram said:

I don't get all the anti Vydra sentiment. He was outstanding for us last season, far superior to anything Lawrence showed, but Lawrence is suddenly flavour of the month. Vydra is a better finisher and his awareness of players movement around him was at a level Lawrence could only dream about last season but it seems that the majority of people would rather see him go if 10 million or thereabouts was on offer for either of them. Don't get me wrong, I would love it if I'm wrong and Lawrence comes good this year buy let's be honest he was dire for the majority of last season and only kept his place in the team because of the snakes inability to admit his marquee signing needed dropping. I think he'll struggle to fit in with the intelligent players we've inherited such as Mount and Wilson but here's hoping I'm proved wrong and we're all celebrating a fantastic season for him in a few months but I honestly feel he'll continue to frustrate?. Before anyone states how young he is, don't forget he is 24, not much younger than Vydra. 

Exactly this. People saying Lawrence fed off scraps last season - it was just the same for Vydra and he still scored 22 goals. Some of you have said there were a few pens in that number, conveniently forgetting he earnt those himself. In an attaking team surrounded with players closer to his level, Vyds could get 30+. Based on last season, he and Carson are two of the few players we own I'd want starting in the Prem if we went up. Pure quality.

[TommyPowell]

18 minutes ago, chelloram said:

The poor lads gone from numero uno to number 15 in line in 3 months??. 

Hey I'm not saying Lampard doesn't have his reasons, I.e. getting 2 or 3 additional players with the funds raised etc.. and I get that totally. I just don't understand why the board seems to have turned against him. Couldn't that front 5 just as easily include Vydra. He clearly isn't in the plans but I still feel he's a much better player than one of the players in that 5 you've mentioned above. Good players can learn to adapt to systems, especially if they have equally intelligent players around them,  I'm not convinced Lawrence can but we'll see. We all love Bryson but do we really expect to get a season out of him now? 

the point is that unfortunately he cannot adapt its his way or no way  It doesnt makw him  bad player but juat wouldnt fit into a high tempo pressing game

[RamLad1884]

20 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Yeh I can, he's excellent at dragging defenders out of space.

But that's not the point, most of the players I listed who are considered to be great (CM notwithstanding) were often maligned for doing nothing but score goals.

I'm not saying we should keep him. But I am just saying it's ridiculous to base an argument on 'he's just a pure goal scorer'. 

I've been watching Derby since 1969, and in that time we haven't had that many players who could create something out of nothing like he could.

That moment of magic that Vydra could produce? 

I think we've got at least 5 players in the squad that could do that exact thing. Lawrence could step up to be the playmaker this year. Mount and Wilson look like they've come with a sprinkle of magic dust and Marriott has the pedigree of the Peterborough United seal of approval 

[RamNut]

 

Quote

unfortunately he cannot adapt its his way or no way

More fiction than enid blyton

[Duracell]

5 minutes ago, Carl Sagan said:

Exactly this. People saying Lawrence fed off scraps last season - it was just the same for Vydra and he still scored 22 goals. Some of you have said there were a few pens in that number, conveniently forgetting he earnt those himself. In an attaking team surrounded with players closer to his level, Vyds could get 30+. Based on last season, he and Carson are two of the few players we own I'd want starting in the Prem if we went up. Pure quality.

Wouldn’t we all like to keep Vydra?

I mean, even if Lampard’s system doesn’t truly suit him (I remain unconvinced that this the case anyway), Lampard and Morris have spoken about using more than one formation and I simply can’t believe there would be no use for him at all.

But there’s a crucial word here - context. We want to cut the squad down and realistically, we need a big sale to cover our investment so far. Vydra is our most valuable asset and it makes sense to sacrifice him if it makes the overall team better.

I feel like the whole “Vydra doesn’t suit the system” stuff comes from a place of people wanting to justify the sale without criticising the new manager or the owner, as it’s never comfortable feeling like you’re having to sell your most valuable player.

I can live with it though. 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

7 minutes ago, RamLad1884 said:

That moment of magic that Vydra could produce? 

I think we've got at least 5 players in the squad that could do that exact thing. Lawrence could step up to be the playmaker this year. Mount and Wilson look like they've come with a sprinkle of magic dust and Marriott has the pedigree of the Peterborough United seal of approval 

mount and Wilson are on loan so not really ours and only young so are likely to be hit and miss through the season  . Marriott will score goals I think  but he is a fox in the box - to quote Arsene Wenger- more dirty shirt and mud than magic dust .  Lawrence is not as good as he think's he is or Rowett thought he was - que radio silence from Stoke and there parachute payment.

[Jourdan]

Usually a deal like this would make me angry. But after the Ince and Hughes deals last season, I decided I'll save my anger for my local Tesco no longer stocking apricot brandy and other such atrocities.

But what I will say is that this looks like a mistake and a move that could come back to haunt us, especially if Leeds have a successful season.

I can understand selling a player if you are under financial pressure or financial constraints and especially so if you can extract maximum value out of that sale, boost the club's finances and trim the wage bill in the process. But it doesn't look like we have done that, to be brutally honest. The money we're receiving for Vydra is being spent and soon we'll have two more players on the wage bill, so in essence financially we have stood still. There has been no relief at all. 

People are saying that Vydra doesn't fit the system and doesn't fit with Lampard's philosophy but how do we know? He hasn't played a single minute of pre-season and he hasn't been given a chance alongside our new signings, because before Frank had even arrived, it was clear that Vydra would be this year's sacrificial lamb. 

It's just puzzling to me that we have the league's top scorer, a player we were patient with and waited for him to shine. Now he finally has and we're letting him go rather than seeing how he could be incorporated into this more attacking, more exciting, more dynamic team.

Personally I would have felt a lot more confident with Vydra in the attack going into the new season. Marriott is entirely unproven at this level and Waghorn has had a mixed career, so it's a massive risk to let go of Vydra coming off the best season of his career. We know he can produce at this level because he has done it multiple times. I simply would have kept Vydra and forgotten about signing the other two, but let's hope Frank is vindicated.

So for me, after all the excitement generated with the initial signings, what has transpired since is the disappointing bump back down to Earth that nobody wanted or needed.

[SketchyRAM]

I get what Jourdan is saying. The real issue is two fold, and it’s a risk. Firstly we haven’t seen Marriott play in our set up in our league, so there’s a huge element of unknown. And while we haven’t given Vydra a chance it’s also unknown. I am a huge fan of Vyds, he’s had his moments but ultimately as a number 10, he’s had to play deep at times and he gets marked out of the game. I always fancied him up top in our old system, but frankly in a 4-3-3 you just can’t see him being effective enough

[maydrakin]

I think it’s all about context.

By the looks of it, to get the most out of Bryson, Mount, Wilson, Lawrence, et al you need someone to do the graft.

Martin did that role with aplomb under McClaren, however Lampard appears to be looking for pace and mobility.

As a result, we need a striker who has the capability to chase down and harry defenders, which will then allow the others to push up behind.

I would suggest these elements aren’t Vydra’s strengths, so he would not be as effective, as say Nugent.

Similarly, he probably wouldn’t be up for tracking back, which the other four behind the striker will have to do to ensure we remain solid, so there’s no real place to slot him in in this style to get the sort of season we’ve just had from him.

Resultantly, it’s commercially sensible to sell a player who has become a “square peg”.

It’s like when England insisted on shoehorning Lampard, Scholes and Gerrard together when we really needed a Nicky Butt to do the uglier “water carrying” side of the game...

[Harrowram]

I am always reticent about selling our better players to championship rivals. However he is 26 now, slightly injury prone, tends to disappear in games, and some of his goals were tap ins and penalties. In addition he can only play in one position which is 10. £11 million is a snip if Boro can justify £14 million for Bamford.

[Oldben]

Selling vydra is only an issue if theres no solution as a replacement. Marriot isnt the solution, but theres still the need for another striker perhaps waghorn and yet if lampard plays 4231 then waghorn doesnt fit in that arrangement.

Most of the current strikers should be sold and that imcludes deadwood like nugent and malcolm. Its from those sales that further rebuilding can be done.

The loans brought might be good but they are loans ...

[RamNut]

This move is nothing to do with vydra's footballing ability/limitation, or franks system. It is simply borne of financial necessity and was quite probably a given right from the start as a way of funding a rebuild. Same as sacrificing Ince under previous management.

whilst we are already top heavy with players, we have added another five attacking midfielders / strikers. Five!

either our players and our youngsters won't be starters or new signings wil be filling the bench or both. 433 can't accomodate all the new players unless wilson drops back into midfield?  

[RamNut]

1 hour ago, Oldben said:

Selling vydra is only an issue if theres no solution as a replacement. Marriot isnt the solution, but theres still the need for another striker perhaps waghorn and yet if lampard plays 4231 then waghorn doesnt fit in that arrangement.

Most of the current strikers should be sold and that imcludes deadwood like nugent and malcolm. Its from those sales that further rebuilding can be done.

The loans brought might be good but they are loans ...

(Who's malcolm?)

[Woodley Ram]

7 minutes ago, RamNut said:

This move is nothing to do with vydra's footballing ability/limitation, or franks system. It is simply borne of financial necessity and was quite probably a given right from the start as a way of funding a rebuild. Same as sacrificing Ince under previous management.

whilst we are already top heavy with players, we have added another five attacking midfielders / strikers. Five!

either our players and our youngsters won't be starters or new signings wil be filling the bench or both. 433 can't accomodate all the new players unless wilson drops back into midfield?  

Very true, he who must not be named always said it’s difficult to keep players happy if they cannot get in the team currently we have a number of senior players who will not make the bench , I fear for the likes of Thorne , Martin etc . We really do need to redouble our efforts at getting rid of players...., sorry moving them on. They also stand in the way of the U23’s and some of them are looking really good.

lots of loans coming up I think in order to get people out of the building 

[Dimmu]

4 hours ago, Jourdan said:

People are saying that Vydra doesn't fit the system and doesn't fit with Lampard's philosophy but how do we know? He hasn't played a single minute of pre-season and he hasn't been given a chance alongside our new signings

 

Has anyone ever given himself quicker answer?