Shackell or Butterfield?

[StarterForTen]

 

Lots of fans bemoan the business done to bring Jacob Butterfield to the club but it could be argued that bringing Shackell back was even worse.

£3million fee; 50-odd games played in three years; hefty wages and now released. I reckon he cost about £150k per game.

Ouch.

[cosmic]

Plus, he didn’t like getting his pecker out in the showers.

[Sparkle]

Well I always felt shackell played well for us whenever he was selected and it wasn’t his fault ( on the pitch) when he wasn’t selected but mr Butterfield on the other hand left me wondering how he got selected apart from someone spending a fortune on him

[Stive Pesley]

Players in their mid-30s often just hit the point where their bodies can't take the physical demands of professional football anymore. Constant niggling injuries. We essentially kept Shackell for one season too long.

[cannable]

39 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

Well I always felt shackell played well for us whenever he was selected and it wasn’t his fault ( on the pitch) when he wasn’t selected but mr Butterfield on the other hand left me wondering how he got selected apart from someone spending a fortune on him

In 15/16 Shackell was the whole reason Clement’s system fell apart whereas Butters was our best player under him 

[cannable]

Should have signed one of Moore, Tarkowski or Ream that summer. 

[Anon]

I said at the time it was a mistake to bring Shackell back and I've been vindicated. The guy is one of the most overrated Derby players in recent history. One good season in a bad side and he immediately asked for a pay rise. Clough was right to get rid. His utter petulance at the Rotherham 3-3 is the mark of the man. People bang on endlessly about Keogh being weak willed, but he would never spit a string of expletives at the manager and run off down the tunnel crying like a little bitch rather than applaud the travelling fans.

Just to clarify, he's not my cup of tea.

[Bob Gnarly]

Butterfield made some harsh comments toward the club though, surely not the right attitude?

Shackell all the way for me.

[cannable]

3 minutes ago, Mr Giggles said:

Butterfield made some harsh comments toward the club though, surely not the right attitude?

Shackell all the way for me.

I’m not sure saying that you don’t suit the style of play is harsh at all…

[Bris Vegas]

Wouldn't surprise me to see Butterfield end up in the MLS after next season. He's made a fortune from his three years at Derby pocketing a near £30k a week and nobody else in the Championship will touch him when on those sort of wages.

Unless he takes a massive wage drop and play for somebody like Rotherham, I can't see him staying in the Championship and he certainly won't drop down to League One.

MLS is my bet.

[Ramathorn]

Shackell probably got his card marked when he gave Wassall that verbal over the late subs at rotherham.

As for Butterfield, not sure how he comes back from the remarks he made about the club.

Not entirely convinced we’ve missed either of them.

[North East Ram]

What did Shackell do / say exactly at Rotherham?

What did Butterfield say about Derby? Just the thing about us not being a passing team?

And was he really on £30 per week? 

Although I did rate him in that first season (was it with Clem?). I mainly liked Clem too tbf. 

[Papahet]

Since the story of Butterfield getting nicked hit the papers his form has gone off, it's no coincidence.

Then add on top of the several managerial changes, getting played deep, Carvalhal getting the sack at Wednesday. Surely it's bound to play a factor in his form? He was a decent player at Barnsley and was one of Huddersfield better players, until Powell came in and decided to play dire football a'la Clement and Rowett - ask any Hudds fan.

I'd give him pre season to show what he can do.

[GenBr]

19 minutes ago, Tim Bucktoo said:

What did Shackell do / say exactly at Rotherham?

What did Butterfield say about Derby? Just the thing about us not being a passing team?

And was he really on £30 per week? 

Although I did rate him in that first season (was it with Clem?). I mainly liked Clem too tbf. 

I can't believe he was on £30 per week either - must have been much lower.

[North East Ram]

1 minute ago, GenBr said:

I can't believe he was on £30 per week either - must have been much lower.

Oh yeah. Meant £30k.

3 year deal = £4.5m. Bloody hell.

Are there others on this bunce?

Didn’t realise Peter Ridsdale was working in our recruitment / HR dept?! 

[Anon]

1 hour ago, Tim Bucktoo said:

What did Shackell do / say exactly at Rotherham?

Wassall told his players to go and applaud the away fans at the end of the game, shortly before going over himself. Not a nice prospect. I think that might be the most toxic atmosphere I've witnessed as a Derby fan. I'm not going to say for certain that every other player followed those orders because I can't be certain, but most did. Shackell railed off a string of expletives as he stormed straight past Wassall, down the tunnel.

I can understand Shackell's frustration. Wassall's substitutions were naive and arrogant and definitely cost us 2 points. What annoys me is the lack of discipline. Did Shackell think that Wassall himself and the rest of his team mates weren't hurting just as much about the result? Of course they were, but they manned up, did what the coach asked of them, and went to face the fans. Shackell's reaction showed an inherent petulance and disrespect for his manager and team mates.

Wassall, to his credit, waited until the players had gone before heading over to the fans himself. I think he knew what kind of reaction he would get so he let the players get out of the way first. As I said the reaction he got wasn't entirely undeserved, but it was horrible. Worse than when Stern John got booed off.

[North East Ram]

40 minutes ago, Anon said:

Wassall told his players to go and applaud the away fans at the end of the game, shortly before going over himself. Not a nice prospect. I think that might be the most toxic atmosphere I've witnessed as a Derby fan. I'm not going to say for certain that every other player followed those orders because I can't be certain, but most did. Shackell railed off a string of expletives as he stormed straight past Wassall, down the tunnel.

I can understand Shackell's frustration. Wassall's substitutions were naive and arrogant and definitely cost us 2 points. What annoys me is the lack of discipline. Did Shackell think that Wassall himself and the rest of his team mates weren't hurting just as much about the result? Of course they were, but they manned up, did what the coach asked of them, and went to face the fans. Shackell's reaction showed an inherent petulance and disrespect for his manager and team mates.

Wassall, to his credit, waited until the players had gone before heading over to the fans himself. I think he knew what kind of reaction he would get so he let the players get out of the way first. As I said the reaction he got wasn't entirely undeserved, but it was horrible. Worse than when Stern John got booed off.

Thanks for that.

Bloody hell. I remember listening to that game and being cheesed off but to be toxic is a bit much.

Wass seemed a good bloke. Was at Brentford that season when we came back at the end. Wass came over at the end and you could tell he was pumped up and enjoying the fan reaction / camaraderie.

Shackell seems a bit of a twit. His behaviour is just the class bully trying it on with the stand in teacher. Would like him to have tried that on with Arthur Cox etc. Shame we’ve paid him so much. 

 

 

[BramcoteRam84]

Neither

[LittleEatonRam]

6 hours ago, Anon said:

I said at the time it was a mistake to bring Shackell back and I've been vindicated. The guy is one of the most overrated Derby players in recent history. One good season in a bad side and he immediately asked for a pay rise. Clough was right to get rid. His utter petulance at the Rotherham 3-3 is the mark of the man. People bang on endlessly about Keogh being weak willed, but he would never spit a string of expletives at the manager and run off down the tunnel crying like a little bitch rather than applaud the travelling fans.

Just to clarify, he's not my cup of tea.

I also said at the time that it was a mistake, but that was more to do with paying £3m for a 32 year old and giving him a 3 year deal.

[RadioactiveWaste]

34 minutes ago, LittleEatonRam said:

I also said at the time that it was a mistake, but that was more to do with paying £3m for a 32 year old and giving him a 3 year deal.

It wasn't just that, it was the way we spent the entire summer acting as if there were no other capable championship center backs in existence. And one who was particularly going to suit Clement. I appreciate we wanted an upgrade on Bucko, but to be that determined about that top end champ lower end pl defender?

Butterfield on the other hand, was the right kind of player, and I think we were initially in for him at £1.5m or so at which it wouldn't have particularly bad business...then Hughes and Bryson went down and Huddersfield knew they had us over a barrel needing midfielders in.

Of the two, I think Shackell was clearly a mistake, butters was an unfortunate one. I still believe he's a talented player but there's just something not quite there with him, and he's had all form and confidence destroyed at two clubs now.

Also, fwiw I wouldn't get all "I'm offended" about his style comments, he was trying to ingratiate himself with wendies after I presume he'd been told straightforwardly about how Rowett saw the team. Trying to big himself up a bit "I'm not awful, just Rowett wants the ball forward and I'm allergic, I've a note from my mum"