archied Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 hour ago, RamNut said: The three points were still safe. We were dozing off. Thomas on a sub might have sparked us into action. the academy players need time to acclimarize to first team football until they believe in their own minds that they are good enough. coming on against a knackered bolton for 5 minutes, when most of our lot are just playing out time won't really help. Tend to disagree a bit although I’m just the same as yourself in terms of wanting to see how these Young prospects do on the pitch,the time he got will help as he went on this time and didn’t go to the wrong side to where he had been instructed ( improvement in not being overawed) to play ,, he has experienced comming on as sub in front of 25k twice now so that’s less daunting in future , he is sitting on the bench and being part of the first team squad during games and he has now got on the ball and had a few touches and got involved and in a winning situation with experienced first teamers giving him pats on the back and encouraging him ,so for me he has gained a lot and it has helped as if we get injuries and situations where we have no choice but to throw the lad on he is a bit further down the road to being ready ,,, sometimes you have little choice but to throw youngsters in and let them sink or swim but if you have a choice it’s far better to get them used to the water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 I seem to remember Hughes being given 2 or 3 minutes as a sub (Peterborough away?) then when he made his full debut he was superb. Maybe there is a school of thought that having your first couple of sub appearances as a few minutes helps blow the nerves away for when a longer appearance comes. Just playing devils advocate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobram Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 The worry with playing the kids usually is that they wont be good enough at this level. We saw 7 mins of him and you can tell he will be brilliant. Just needs more game time to relax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 1 hour ago, sage said: I seem to remember Hughes being given 2 or 3 minutes as a sub (Peterborough away?) then when he made his full debut he was superb. Maybe there is a school of thought that having your first couple of sub appearances as a few minutes helps blow the nerves away for when a longer appearance comes. Just playing devils advocate. Actually for the first 5 mins he was woeful. Then he made a pass to one of his own teammates and he was then superb. as a second chance in the team coming in Luke looked more composed on Saturday. Nuge and Vydra needed to come off to be Estes and as much as I want Luke to get more game time GR did the right thing to ensure the victory. We looked at sixes and sevens after the first two subs and looked under the cosh a bit so it needed to settle down before introducing a kid. a pity but hopefully he will get more chances and more time as want to see more of his adility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 10 hours ago, curtains said: You are getting a bit hung up on this. We had already used 2 subs in Palmer and Jerome . No way do you use 3 subs unless you are losing with 20 minutes to go and risk going down to 10 men through an injury. Over cautious. 10 hours ago, Paul71 said: I agree, i think nuge and vydra coming off made sense, we have two games coming up this week so best to rest them and the game was won. If he had used all 3 subs then we got an injury on 75 minutes and ended up conceding, even drawing the game he would get slaughtered for this. That was never going to happen. 9 hours ago, archied said: Tend to disagree a bit although I’m just the same as yourself in terms of wanting to see how these Young prospects do on the pitch,the time he got will help as he went on this time and didn’t go to the wrong side to where he had been instructed ( improvement in not being overawed) to play ,, he has experienced comming on as sub in front of 25k twice now so that’s less daunting in future , he is sitting on the bench and being part of the first team squad during games and he has now got on the ball and had a few touches and got involved and in a winning situation with experienced first teamers giving him pats on the back and encouraging him ,so for me he has gained a lot and it has helped as if we get injuries and situations where we have no choice but to throw the lad on he is a bit further down the road to being ready ,,, sometimes you have little choice but to throw youngsters in and let them sink or swim but if you have a choice it’s far better to get them used to the water That was barely a paddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete2 Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 On 7 April 2018 at 22:06, Boycie said: Today was the best opportunity to get young Luke Thomas some game time. The first subs used could of included Luke, Vydra’s reaction on getting subbed told me he wasn’t changed due to injury. So with this opportunity, why give the lad 7 mins? Come on, what’s the point? Are we serious about the academy? If we can’t offer them more than 7 mins at 3-0 up then something’s not right. I can’t see many more games where we’ll have a 3 goal luxury to bring these lads gently in. Sorry for the rant, but I want the Academy to work for us. I think it was more to do with giving nuge and vyds a rest... So jerome and Palmer were obvious candidates to replace them. What if we had an injury after that? I mean we are potentially a handful of games away from the premier league and we seriously don't want to **** that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted April 9, 2018 Author Share Posted April 9, 2018 39 minutes ago, PistoldPete2 said: I think it was more to do with giving nuge and vyds a rest... So jerome and Palmer were obvious candidates to replace them. What if we had an injury after that? I mean we are potentially a handful of games away from the premier league and we seriously don't want to **** that up. I don’t think Vydra wanted to come off myself, but I understand what you’re saying, I’m a bit frustrated, because if we do fail to get to the Premier League these youngsters are rumoured to be the next option we will turn to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted April 9, 2018 Share Posted April 9, 2018 On 4/7/2018 at 22:06, Boycie said: Today was the best opportunity to get young Luke Thomas some game time. The first subs used could of included Luke, Vydra’s reaction on getting subbed told me he wasn’t changed due to injury. So with this opportunity, why give the lad 7 mins? Come on, what’s the point? Are we serious about the academy? If we can’t offer them more than 7 mins at 3-0 up then something’s not right. I can’t see many more games where we’ll have a 3 goal luxury to bring these lads gently in. Sorry for the rant, but I want the Academy to work for us. Totally agree. The club have indicated that there won't be big money signings next season, so we should be looking long and hard at what we have available at the club. Nothing to learn about the players in and around the 1st team, so we should be giving proper game time to players like Thomas, not a stingy 7 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackworthRamIsGod Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 Our biggest mistake this season is sending so many young lads out on loan as well as first team players. If you send Bryson out on loan and sell Hughes surely Callum Guy makes the step up? If you need cover for the number 10 role, why loan in Palmer and never play him, why not give Vernam a chance? We aren't producing goals from the wings, why bother with Anya who we all knew wasn't good enough and give Luke Thomas a try...or Zanzala, or Mason Bennett. Left back has been a problem all season, so let's try Max Lowe. And so on and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smyth_18 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 People are justifying the decision not to use Thomas earlier by saying Nugent and Vydra needed to go off. They then go on to say we lost our way a bit after these subs. (Yet it was too risky a 3-0 to play Thomas). Surely we could have put Thomas on for Vydra and swapped with Lawrence? If we can't 'risk' playing a youngster at 3-0 up, we have serious trust issues in both the academy and 1st teams ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 36 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said: Our biggest mistake this season is sending so many young lads out on loan as well as first team players. If you send Bryson out on loan and sell Hughes surely Callum Guy makes the step up? If you need cover for the number 10 role, why loan in Palmer and never play him, why not give Vernam a chance? We aren't producing goals from the wings, why bother with Anya who we all knew wasn't good enough and give Luke Thomas a try...or Zanzala, or Mason Bennett. Left back has been a problem all season, so let's try Max Lowe. And so on and so forth. Our biggest mistake? Really? Not selling Hughes for £4.5m? Not paying £6m for Lawrence? Not loaning out Bryson? Not the Keiftenbeld fiasco? Not loaning out Martin? Not buying Jerome? Not playing Johnson CDM? Not failing to buy a CDM quicker than custard? Biggest mistake? A bigger mistake was not loaning some of those players out a year earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 On 07/04/2018 at 22:06, Boycie said: Today was the best opportunity to get young Luke Thomas some game time. The first subs used could of included Luke, Vydra’s reaction on getting subbed told me he wasn’t changed due to injury. So with this opportunity, why give the lad 7 mins? Come on, what’s the point? Are we serious about the academy? If we can’t offer them more than 7 mins at 3-0 up then something’s not right. I can’t see many more games where we’ll have a 3 goal luxury to bring these lads gently in. Sorry for the rant, but I want the Academy to work for us. With out reading the other few pages and risking a copy cat post. I would suggest that it all comes down to wanting the win and not wanting to risk anything. Confidence is fragile and a win with out conceding is just what the nerves need right now. Otherwise I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete2 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 2 hours ago, Smyth_18 said: People are justifying the decision not to use Thomas earlier by saying Nugent and Vydra needed to go off. They then go on to say we lost our way a bit after these subs. (Yet it was too risky a 3-0 to play Thomas). Surely we could have put Thomas on for Vydra and swapped with Lawrence? If we can't 'risk' playing a youngster at 3-0 up, we have serious trust issues in both the academy and 1st teams ability. Yes it's an option to play Lawrence in the middle but why mess with him when he is playing well ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 It's no surprise he hasn't had many minutes. Rowett is your classic results matter over everything else manager. So he's going to do everything possible to minimise the chances of us throwing away points. In Rowett's eyes it's much better to play it safe with an older head who is more dependable and less likely to make a costly error, than to throw in a unproven youngster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I'm never fond of "2 minutes to go subs" what's the point ... but it is a a balance that needs thinking about. I suspect we held off a bit because Ameobi looked threatening, he brought some drive to their attack for 10-15 mins - Gary was being cautious. got to give a sub 10 minutes minimum in an ideal world - unless you are losing and it's all messy gung ho disruption then there are no rules. Sherringham and Solskaer came on in the 81st minute giving them 14 mins on the pitch in the 1999 European cup. About right I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 1 hour ago, PodgeyRam said: It's no surprise he hasn't had many minutes. Rowett is your classic results matter over everything else manager. So he's going to do everything possible to minimise the chances of us throwing away points. In Rowett's eyes it's much better to play it safe with an older head who is more dependable and less likely to make a costly error, than to throw in a unproven youngster. Not a bad thing in the middle of a promotion battle where every point is vital Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 6 hours ago, sage said: Our biggest mistake? Really? Not selling Hughes for £4.5m? Not paying £6m for Lawrence? Not loaning out Bryson? Not the Keiftenbeld fiasco? Not loaning out Martin? Not buying Jerome? Not playing Johnson CDM? Not failing to buy a CDM quicker than custard? Biggest mistake? A bigger mistake was not loaning some of those players out a year earlier. Careful mate. You're starting to sound as if you think GR has made some errors. You'll be burned at the stake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smyth_18 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 19 hours ago, PistoldPete2 said: Yes it's an option to play Lawrence in the middle but why mess with him when he is playing well ? We was 3-0 up. Why not? He might do even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram59 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Smyth_18 said: We was 3-0 up. Why not? He might do even better. I remember being 3-0 up after 83 mins against Rotherham and Wassall going gung-ho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smyth_18 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 17 minutes ago, ram59 said: I remember being 3-0 up after 83 mins against Rotherham and Wassall going gung-ho. Not quite relevant to the option i was giving but ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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