europia Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 1 hour ago, reveldevil said: Is it because the God awful football we play is more productive in away performances, or because as a home support we're not very good? To answer the question I suspect it's more to do with the way we are set up, more counter attacking, so not taking the initiative at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 For what it's worth, this is the Home to Away difference across the rest of the league. Preston -4 Brentford +4 Ipswich +5 Leeds +5 Norwich 0 QPR +20 Sheff Wed +3 Forest +6 Hull +11 Reading -1 Bolton +17 Birmingham +13 Barnsley - 0 Sunderland -7 Burton -9 As @Shuff264 has pointed out, some will have played 1 more away or home either way but as the table stands tonight only Derby, Preston, Reading, Sunderland & Burton have picked up more points on the road than at home. When Shuff has got 5 minutes he can stick all this into his data sheet for the points per game, be interesting to see what it looks like. Edit: Derby v Cardiff and Forest v Barnsley are the only 2 games which have been postponed causing a 19/20 situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 I have a season ticket and away member as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewhallRam71 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 I'd say that the terrible atmosphere at Pride Park contributes. Since the Mac 1 collapse and Mel money got splashed in the Clement season I think the level of expectation at homes games has risen to toxic levels. The nervousness around the ground is in the air at the first sign of things not going to plan. I'm a (was) third generation season ticket holder since the BBG days but decided not to bother this season. I can't be doing with the melee of seemingly ex-professional coaches, players and pundits that follow the Rams at home who seem to think that because a player cost x or is paid y, then this directly correlates to him having super human footballing skills. It seems that long gone are the days when 'supporters' got behind a player who was having a bad time, and 'supported' him and encouraged him in order to help the team. Nowadays, its a tirade of abuse at the first misplaced pass or failure to control a 100mph forty yard pass. The things that are shouted and screamed at 'our' players within the first 5 minutes is a complete joke. I used to play the game and it was my dream to play for the Rams in front of our fans, but it wouldn't be my dream nowadays. We have fans shouting that players aren't playing for the shirt, and are only picking up their wages, well in works both ways in my view. If all they get mostly is abuse when they are having a bad day then why would they have any interest in us and the club as a whole. Take Richard Keogh for example. Probably our most consistent player of the last few years, yet when he does make a mistake (even when it's the third consecutive one as at Wembley) then he is pilloried by his own fans and held up as a scapegoat. He's had another excellent season, yet one bad game (admittedly very bad) and everyone is on his back again. I'll bet he can't wait to get a transfer to another club and simply be appreciated as a very good player, who does a lot more right than wrong! Rant Over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deano180 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 1 hour ago, B4ev6is said: I have a season ticket and away member as well. Do you have a club Wembley package? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDerbySuperRams Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 Well it’s a good job we will be (if we qualify) away in the 2nd leg of the play offs then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 6 hours ago, NewhallRam71 said: I'd say that the terrible atmosphere at Pride Park contributes. Since the Mac 1 collapse and Mel money got splashed in the Clement season I think the level of expectation at homes games has risen to toxic levels. The nervousness around the ground is in the air at the first sign of things not going to plan. I'm a (was) third generation season ticket holder since the BBG days but decided not to bother this season. I can't be doing with the melee of seemingly ex-professional coaches, players and pundits that follow the Rams at home who seem to think that because a player cost x or is paid y, then this directly correlates to him having super human footballing skills. It seems that long gone are the days when 'supporters' got behind a player who was having a bad time, and 'supported' him and encouraged him in order to help the team. Nowadays, its a tirade of abuse at the first misplaced pass or failure to control a 100mph forty yard pass. The things that are shouted and screamed at 'our' players within the first 5 minutes is a complete joke. I used to play the game and it was my dream to play for the Rams in front of our fans, but it wouldn't be my dream nowadays. We have fans shouting that players aren't playing for the shirt, and are only picking up their wages, well in works both ways in my view. If all they get mostly is abuse when they are having a bad day then why would they have any interest in us and the club as a whole. Take Richard Keogh for example. Probably our most consistent player of the last few years, yet when he does make a mistake (even when it's the third consecutive one as at Wembley) then he is pilloried by his own fans and held up as a scapegoat. He's had another excellent season, yet one bad game (admittedly very bad) and everyone is on his back again. I'll bet he can't wait to get a transfer to another club and simply be appreciated as a very good player, who does a lot more right than wrong! Rant Over! Spot on ,, mind you us people from newhall always talk sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuff264 Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 Right, heres the entire league for you lot to look at. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AdmzFwBFSFXLaVsM2RpYdqQMbGv7v19US0IPoyBGBI8/edit?usp=sharing Some interesting things: There are only 5 teams better away from home than at home, including all of the bottom three (Burton, Sunderland, Preston, Reading, Barnsley) Norwich are the only team equally consistent home and away, they are also the only team more consistent than Derby And Derby will definitley beat Bolton as they have the worst away record in the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 8 hours ago, NewhallRam71 said: I'd say that the terrible atmosphere at Pride Park contributes. Since the Mac 1 collapse and Mel money got splashed in the Clement season I think the level of expectation at homes games has risen to toxic levels. The nervousness around the ground is in the air at the first sign of things not going to plan. I'm a (was) third generation season ticket holder since the BBG days but decided not to bother this season. I can't be doing with the melee of seemingly ex-professional coaches, players and pundits that follow the Rams at home who seem to think that because a player cost x or is paid y, then this directly correlates to him having super human footballing skills. It seems that long gone are the days when 'supporters' got behind a player who was having a bad time, and 'supported' him and encouraged him in order to help the team. Nowadays, its a tirade of abuse at the first misplaced pass or failure to control a 100mph forty yard pass. The things that are shouted and screamed at 'our' players within the first 5 minutes is a complete joke. I used to play the game and it was my dream to play for the Rams in front of our fans, but it wouldn't be my dream nowadays. We have fans shouting that players aren't playing for the shirt, and are only picking up their wages, well in works both ways in my view. If all they get mostly is abuse when they are having a bad day then why would they have any interest in us and the club as a whole. Take Richard Keogh for example. Probably our most consistent player of the last few years, yet when he does make a mistake (even when it's the third consecutive one as at Wembley) then he is pilloried by his own fans and held up as a scapegoat. He's had another excellent season, yet one bad game (admittedly very bad) and everyone is on his back again. I'll bet he can't wait to get a transfer to another club and simply be appreciated as a very good player, who does a lot more right than wrong! Rant Over! Interesting observations. Probably best in some ways we don't actually achieve promotion. Can you imagine the atmosphere when we are getting tanked at home by the likes of Mancity, Liverpool, Spurs etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 11 hours ago, europia said: Interesting observations. Probably best in some ways we don't actually achieve promotion. Can you imagine the atmosphere when we are getting tanked at home by the likes of Mancity, Liverpool, Spurs etc Least you see one decent team. It's when we're tanked by Watford, West ham, Stoke etc it gets depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 22 hours ago, NewhallRam71 said: I'd say that the terrible atmosphere at Pride Park contributes. Since the Mac 1 collapse and Mel money got splashed in the Clement season I think the level of expectation at homes games has risen to toxic levels. The nervousness around the ground is in the air at the first sign of things not going to plan. I'm a (was) third generation season ticket holder since the BBG days but decided not to bother this season. I can't be doing with the melee of seemingly ex-professional coaches, players and pundits that follow the Rams at home who seem to think that because a player cost x or is paid y, then this directly correlates to him having super human footballing skills. It seems that long gone are the days when 'supporters' got behind a player who was having a bad time, and 'supported' him and encouraged him in order to help the team. Nowadays, its a tirade of abuse at the first misplaced pass or failure to control a 100mph forty yard pass. The things that are shouted and screamed at 'our' players within the first 5 minutes is a complete joke. I used to play the game and it was my dream to play for the Rams in front of our fans, but it wouldn't be my dream nowadays. We have fans shouting that players aren't playing for the shirt, and are only picking up their wages, well in works both ways in my view. If all they get mostly is abuse when they are having a bad day then why would they have any interest in us and the club as a whole. Take Richard Keogh for example. Probably our most consistent player of the last few years, yet when he does make a mistake (even when it's the third consecutive one as at Wembley) then he is pilloried by his own fans and held up as a scapegoat. He's had another excellent season, yet one bad game (admittedly very bad) and everyone is on his back again. I'll bet he can't wait to get a transfer to another club and simply be appreciated as a very good player, who does a lot more right than wrong! Rant Over! Are you nieve enough to think it is ant different anywhere else? Why do people think Derby fans are worse than fans of any other club? We aint special, we're just fans. I don't get the booing but in all honesty it does not bother me as much as it seem to others. If it's crap, it's crap. What do the players expect if they throw in a Sunderland performance? No excuse mind during the 90mins when they are playing, booing is a no no then.. Has it ever been any different? I go back a fair way and can remember players getting crap thrown their way. Granted with the advent of social media, it's easier to get heard but in the ground it is no different. People have always moaned in the ground or at the pub. It's the world we live in nowadays, everything is now, now, now. It's the same in the workplace for the likes of you and I, deliver or else. We get a disciplinary, they get a new contract. I don't agree PPS is toxic, just pretty boring. Not saying it's right, just the world now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: Are you nieve enough to think it is ant different anywhere else? Why do people think Derby fans are worse than fans of any other club? We aint special, we're just fans. I don't get the booing but in all honesty it does not bother me as much as it seem to others. If it's crap, it's crap. What do the players expect if they throw in a Sunderland performance? No excuse mind during the 90mins when they are playing, booing is a no no then.. Has it ever been any different? I go back a fair way and can remember players getting crap thrown their way. Granted with the advent of social media, it's easier to get heard but in the ground it is no different. People have always moaned in the ground or at the pub. It's the world we live in nowadays, everything is now, now, now. It's the same in the workplace for the likes of you and I, deliver or else. We get a disciplinary, they get a new contract. I don't agree PPS is toxic, just pretty boring. Not saying it's right, just the world now. I'd say expectations here are higher than most clubs at this level. The bigger problem is the general apathy and the seeming split in fans. There is an increasing amount of voices who seem to want the club to fail, the Cardiff snowstorm showed that. Our support doesn't match the arrogance of our pre match beliefs. First sign of danger and we are doomed, it isn't naive to believe that a nervousness in the crowd spreads to the players. However, our current playing style does not put us on the front foot at home. In the old days you'd have a moan post match and that would be it until next game. Now we spend all week prancing round in circles reading more opinions, keeping that disgruntled fire burning. Next match comes and the moans are pre loaded, ready to fire. Football is a sport, it is massively different to a job. You don't see a tennis player get abuse for putting a routine shot in the net. Maybe it is just the world today and how sad that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimmu Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 You should always, always do the conga. Gets the crowd going better than anything on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 On 03/04/2018 at 22:04, europia said: To answer the question I suspect it's more to do with the way we are set up, more counter attacking, so not taking the initiative at home. Exactly this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewhallRam71 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Angry Ram said: Are you nieve enough to think it is ant different anywhere else? Why do people think Derby fans are worse than fans of any other club? We aint special, we're just fans. I don't get the booing but in all honesty it does not bother me as much as it seem to others. If it's crap, it's crap. What do the players expect if they throw in a Sunderland performance? No excuse mind during the 90mins when they are playing, booing is a no no then.. Has it ever been any different? I go back a fair way and can remember players getting crap thrown their way. Granted with the advent of social media, it's easier to get heard but in the ground it is no different. People have always moaned in the ground or at the pub. It's the world we live in nowadays, everything is now, now, now. It's the same in the workplace for the likes of you and I, deliver or else. We get a disciplinary, they get a new contract. I don't agree PPS is toxic, just pretty boring. Not saying it's right, just the world now. I'm not naive at all, I would suggest that it is more commonplace at clubs with high expectations, and that was one of the points I was trying to make and I would say that yes it has been very different in recent years gone by. Under Clough and then Mac 1, our expectations were relatively modest. We were a big club in name and stadium only who were modestly trying to spend and coach our way up the league. The reality was that towards the end under Nigel, it became stale and boring and the progress wasn't quick enough despite the excellent job he did. Then we had Mac 1, who coached a young hungry team of 'never been's' to play football we could only dream of and had us within an inch of promotion. Had we gone up that year, I think we would have flourished. Our expectations were low and there was a sense of 'lets just enjoy this' as we supported that team home and away. The following year, with increased but still modest expectations, injuries to key players ruined what should have been an automatic promotion bid. My experience is that since that period the atmosphere around where I sat (North East Corner) at Pride Park has become largely toxic. With the spending of significant sums by Mel under Clement on 'the last pieces of the jigsaw' to avoid the injury issues of the previous year, the expectations rose to unrealistic proportions. The 'steady build' was replaced by the 'quick fix'. The same people I had sat among for previous seasons became seemingly more expert and vocal and were throwing their hands in the air and voicing discontent at every mistake, and became unwilling to acknowledge that sometimes our opponents simply played well. Everything always has to be someones fault, the coach, our captain, or one of our big money signings usually bear the brunt. Despite his obvious best intentions, I think that Mel unwittingly added to the expectation with Clements sacking. To sack a coach when we were in 5th place and very much in the mix suggested that Mel had greater expectations. Although I would concede that there may have been other reasons why Mel pulled the trigger. Poor old Wassall then got lambasted as I recall in his first game! So whilst I do not think I am naive, I find the increasing negative attitude of home fans, both in the ground and on social media at our club to be off putting. I still follow the team any way I can but have no interest in home games at the minute. There is an air of desperation regarding our bid to get promoted, and again I don't think that Mel has helped the cause with his statement on how things will change if we don't get promoted this year. He may well be lowering our expectations, but it does nothing to help the current campaign. Whilst I agree that this may be the world right now, I don't agree that its always been this way or is the same everywhere else. Something has changed and in my view, not for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Nothing changes in nearly half a century. We had a bit of success in the 1970s and since then every few years the entitlement level at Derby among the fans kicks up to something approaching Forest's won 3 games at the start of the season so they are champions-elect levels. It gets tempered somewhat when we have a few seasons in the doldrums but as soon as we start being touted as possible promotion candidates, the expectation kicks in. Four successive years of ooh nearlys just cranks it up a notch or two. The boardroom shenannigans coupled with a revolving door to the manager's office doesn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 hour ago, BondJovi said: I'd say expectations here are higher than most clubs at this level. The bigger problem is the general apathy and the seeming split in fans. There is an increasing amount of voices who seem to want the club to fail, the Cardiff snowstorm showed that. Our support doesn't match the arrogance of our pre match beliefs. First sign of danger and we are doomed, it isn't naive to believe that a nervousness in the crowd spreads to the players. However, our current playing style does not put us on the front foot at home. In the old days you'd have a moan post match and that would be it until next game. Now we spend all week prancing round in circles reading more opinions, keeping that disgruntled fire burning. Next match comes and the moans are pre loaded, ready to fire. Football is a sport, it is massively different to a job. You don't see a tennis player get abuse for putting a routine shot in the net. Maybe it is just the world today and how sad that is. I blame @David then for giving people a platform Like I said, it's the world we live in now and for all the positives these platforms give, there are many negatives as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 45 minutes ago, NewhallRam71 said: I'm not naive at all, I would suggest that it is more commonplace at clubs with high expectations, and that was one of the points I was trying to make and I would say that yes it has been very different in recent years gone by. Under Clough and then Mac 1, our expectations were relatively modest. We were a big club in name and stadium only who were modestly trying to spend and coach our way up the league. The reality was that towards the end under Nigel, it became stale and boring and the progress wasn't quick enough despite the excellent job he did. Then we had Mac 1, who coached a young hungry team of 'never been's' to play football we could only dream of and had us within an inch of promotion. Had we gone up that year, I think we would have flourished. Our expectations were low and there was a sense of 'lets just enjoy this' as we supported that team home and away. The following year, with increased but still modest expectations, injuries to key players ruined what should have been an automatic promotion bid. My experience is that since that period the atmosphere around where I sat (North East Corner) at Pride Park has become largely toxic. With the spending of significant sums by Mel under Clement on 'the last pieces of the jigsaw' to avoid the injury issues of the previous year, the expectations rose to unrealistic proportions. The 'steady build' was replaced by the 'quick fix'. The same people I had sat among for previous seasons became seemingly more expert and vocal and were throwing their hands in the air and voicing discontent at every mistake, and became unwilling to acknowledge that sometimes our opponents simply played well. Everything always has to be someones fault, the coach, our captain, or one of our big money signings usually bear the brunt. Despite his obvious best intentions, I think that Mel unwittingly added to the expectation with Clements sacking. To sack a coach when we were in 5th place and very much in the mix suggested that Mel had greater expectations. Although I would concede that there may have been other reasons why Mel pulled the trigger. Poor old Wassall then got lambasted as I recall in his first game! So whilst I do not think I am naive, I find the increasing negative attitude of home fans, both in the ground and on social media at our club to be off putting. I still follow the team any way I can but have no interest in home games at the minute. There is an air of desperation regarding our bid to get promoted, and again I don't think that Mel has helped the cause with his statement on how things will change if we don't get promoted this year. He may well be lowering our expectations, but it does nothing to help the current campaign. Whilst I agree that this may be the world right now, I don't agree that its always been this way or is the same everywhere else. Something has changed and in my view, not for the better. The 'naive' quote was aimed at the Keogh comment which I highlighted. I think we all agree that Keogh is a top end Championship player, so if he is sold on he would go to a club of similar expectations? You inferred that he would be treated differently. Trust me fans of clubs like QPR, won't cut players any slack. I don't believe any would. I don't disgree with your excellent original post by the way. Just the Keogh bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 Just now, Angry Ram said: I blame @David then for giving people a platform Like I said, it's the world we live in now and for all the positives these platforms give, there are many negatives as well. If it wasn't me it would be someone else who would be far less attractive, just remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 14 minutes ago, DC-1975 said: That’s a bit harsh on @Boycie ! That's a bit optimistic thinking Boycie would be even remotely capable of performing such internet greatness I have provided you all with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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