kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 1 hour ago, RamNut said: We built a team that most fans seemed to identify with once mac1 got them winning. keogh, buxton, forsyth, hughes, bryson, martin, russell, ward of the players who have come in since only carson, davies and vydra have really been a total success clement, pearson and rowett have all smashed up what they inherited to a greater or lesser degree. now we've lost that core and its just a squad which is constantly rotated....with a couple of gaps and a few misfits. it looks and feels like a team in transition with the wrong age profile. Despite the success we've had this year, it feels like we need to start again, and that we are just deferring the inevitable. if we miss out this year then i could see this squad dropping down to midtable. unfortunately we sold the player that we should be rebuilding around and we need to find a new focus. I'd put a self-imposed age limit on any new signings if i was Mel. I agree with this and am slightly confused by what Mel's aims are... Didn't he sack clement for basically doing what Gary has achieved this year....i.e targeting promotion at all costs but forgetting the Derby way of developing and bringing on young talent in the team and buying older players than can achieve short term goals? What's changed? Is it the fact that we have been doing well? If that's the case and Mel's criteria for Derbys future hasnt changed,should gr be looking anxiously over his shoulder if we go into a similar clement slump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yani P Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Problem we have is some are saying we are over achieving this season yet, to me at least, he has built a squad of players who are the type to get out of the Champs now - one thing for sure the team we have today will not be getting better next season just because of the age profile, so if he was not aiming for a quick fix immediate promotion what exactly is the strategy? Looking today Villa have been poor so far but cardiff are winning - we had a decent window to really put pressure on those two and failed miserably. I still think we will get another chance to threaten the top 2 so lets hope this time the players take it when it arrives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 On 2/16/2018 at 11:45, JoeDerby said: I'm personally very happy with how this season is going.. we have probably over achieved in terms of the turn around we're going through, so I was always expecting a dip in form and I can handle that we aren't going to win every game (unlike some others). What really frustrates me is fans getting on players backs and booing at full time. We are 3rd in the table. I much prefer going to away games where the fans are constantly brilliant. There's a real negative vibe around PP at the moment and it's not what the team deserves. It's perhaps apprehension & anxiety rather than negativity ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorseRam Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 The frustration is about recent SEASONS (its all Zamora's fault) ... its been painful, but - I think we are actually in a good place as a team, and in a good place in the table - considering the date and the number of games left. In Mel And Rowett I Trust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 On 2/16/2018 at 11:45, JoeDerby said: I'm personally very happy with how this season is going.. we have probably over achieved in terms of the turn around we're going through, so I was always expecting a dip in form and I can handle that we aren't going to win every game (unlike some others). What really frustrates me is fans getting on players backs and booing at full time. We are 3rd in the table. I much prefer going to away games where the fans are constantly brilliant. There's a real negative vibe around PP at the moment and it's not what the team deserves. At the start of the season, I was expecting 8th or 9th place at best, due to the way we finished last season. I guess a lot of people had similar thoughts. Having made it into the auto spot and have now slipping to 4th, fans are perhaps now split in two different mindsets: Those who look at a play off finish as a bonus, over and above expectation. Others who feel that failing to stay in 2nd is an opportunity missed, and are expecting another collapse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB SPORTS Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 On 17/02/2018 at 13:45, DC-1975 said: This is exactly the sort of 'myth' that I'm on about. We had a handful of brilliant performances, but there was also plenty of drab games. In another thread, where 2013/14 is being used as a stick to beat Rowett with, I've listed a run of fixtures, from the Burnley game, where we could have challenged for second place, only 8 points where taken from 8 games and five of those games we failed to score in. I've read, since the Wednesday defeat how the 2013/14 team where consistantly a 'league above' other teams and how this team certainly aren't. Yet that team, with all its flair players, was thrashed by Nigel Pearson's Leicester and constantly beaten by Burnley. (Leicester only just avoided relegation the following season and Burnley were relegated) They couldn't break down a QPR team who defended deeply, another constant criticism of Rowetts team/tactics. It appears that some use that season as the pinnacle of which Rowett just can't live up to, when in reality the two seasons have taken a fairly similar path. Yes March 2014 was only positive for the 5-0 the other four games only yielded 2 points and 1 goal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, ONEPIEGON said: Yes March 2014 was only positive for the 5-0 the other four games only yielded 2 points and 1 goal Not quite we beat Charlton 3 - 0 on the 29th March. The run in after that was quite impressive though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 On 17/02/2018 at 13:45, DC-1975 said: This is exactly the sort of 'myth' that I'm on about. We had a handful of brilliant performances, but there was also plenty of drab games. In another thread, where 2013/14 is being used as a stick to beat Rowett with, I've listed a run of fixtures, from the Burnley game, where we could have challenged for second place, only 8 points where taken from 8 games and five of those games we failed to score in. I've read, since the Wednesday defeat how the 2013/14 team where consistantly a 'league above' other teams and how this team certainly aren't. Yet that team, with all its flair players, was thrashed by Nigel Pearson's Leicester and constantly beaten by Burnley. (Leicester only just avoided relegation the following season and Burnley were relegated) They couldn't break down a QPR team who defended deeply, another constant criticism of Rowetts team/tactics. It appears that some use that season as the pinnacle of which Rowett just can't live up to, when in reality the two seasons have taken a fairly similar path. I recall few drab games that season to be honest but I do remember many exciting games,whether we won or lost them....I went to many of those games and in no way was it a myth. We were the most exciting team by far of the 13/14 season...not the best in stats terms but the best to watch. There's more to enjoying football for some than countless numbers of draws maintaining a loss free run...if rather win one and lose two of the football gets me off my seat. A minority view,granted,from what I see on these forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 13 minutes ago, DC-1975 said: I’m glad you enjoyed that season so much, but I can’t see why it keeps being referred to every time this team has a slightly negative result. Whats that song we sing to Forest fans “They live in the past”. If it's wrong to expect to watch entertaining football from your team then there's something wrong. The only seasons I've found the football boring,in recent years,was this year and pearsons brief tenure....even clements was more entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramsbottom Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 On 2/16/2018 at 12:26, Davide said: Fans will always find a way to be negative. Human nature when it’s competitive sport. Think football fans are the most fickle fans ever. On the phone in on talk sport last week there was a moaning Manchester City fan! After one loss some fans call for a manager’s head - Moyes at West Ham for example. Leicester fans wanted Ranieri out the yea after winning the league! I’m just pleased the moaners who usually sit behind me have buggered off. Three years sick to death of Bloody Dawkins, Bloody Keogh etc people are passionate about football and losing is painful. Personally would be happy with playoffs but would be a shame to miss out on top2. C’est la vie. If I wanted glory I would support whoever is the champions league winner every season! I wouldn't mind if it was Bristol City or Fulham pipping us at the last. But the thought of either teams managed by Colin W/\nker or Potato Face beating us to it really hacks me off!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogbad van 50 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 On 17/02/2018 at 16:17, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: I agree with this and am slightly confused by what Mel's aims are... Didn't he sack clement for basically doing what Gary has achieved this year....i.e targeting promotion at all costs but forgetting the Derby way of developing and bringing on young talent in the team and buying older players than can achieve short term goals? What's changed? Is it the fact that we have been doing well? If that's the case and Mel's criteria for Derbys future hasnt changed,should gr be looking anxiously over his shoulder if we go into a similar clement slump? I’d say ,looking at the last transfer window and the constraints of FFP rules,that would appear not to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagerbob Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 On 16/02/2018 at 12:11, Mr Giggles said: How do I vote for both If your considerign voting for both, i suggest negative fans should get your vote.. as you are acknowleding it. If you vote recent form... its because you see nothing wrong with being negative or more likely you dont even realise you are being negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagerbob Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 On 16/02/2018 at 11:58, Ram79 said: I don't think people are being too negative I think they are just frustrated that we might throw away our hard work earlier in the season. Everybody wants us to succeed so badly that it comes across as negative. I don't agree with booing anybody but people are entitled to their opinion afterwards and if they want to be critical so be it after all these players are not playing for free if I was getting even a tenth of what they get a week you could beat me in the street and I'd still be smiling. and there lies the problem. promotion is great, something to celebrate but IMO its not the be all and end all of everything too many people think promotion means we all get to live happil;y ever after, and it makes our lives complete. Poppycock! If we go up, we go back to not being competitive... only able to win a few games a season, and we join the horrible league which will have us signing all manner of untried, untested johnny foreigners just trying to compete, before we come crashing back down to the championship. Im happy to have a team, will support us no matter what. Promotion is not the be all and end all of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: If it's wrong to expect to watch entertaining football from your team then there's something wrong. The only seasons I've found the football boring,in recent years,was this year and pearsons brief tenure....even clements was more entertaining. For me it’s a balance , great football but ultimately not succeeding wears you down in the end ( general ,not Mac 1 based) but total dire football that gets us up and keeps us up will be just as wearing in the end ,,,, cant agree on clement tenure ,would much rather watch rowett s teams than Clements ,they both have a degree of caution in them , Clements was more based on possession keeping possession as a form of defence that ultimately lead to always playing the safe pass and never taking a risk which bored my tits off when took to it’s ultimate , for me a hybrid of mac1 and rowett would be the ultimate but that’s a very hard balance to hit ,you could probably say the same of a clough junior/ mac1 hybrid, so much comes down to the level of money you have to spend on the players needed to do the job required at the level your at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 6 minutes ago, jagerbob said: and there lies the problem. promotion is great, something to celebrate but IMO its not the be all and end all of everything too many people think promotion means we all get to live happil;y ever after, and it makes our lives complete. Poppycock! If we go up, we go back to not being competitive... only able to win a few games a season, and we join the horrible league which will have us signing all manner of untried, untested johnny foreigners just trying to compete, before we come crashing back down to the championship. Im happy to have a team, will support us no matter what. Promotion is not the be all and end all of everything. Yo yo seems the best option then as it gives you the financial clout if money is used wisely and most seasons will have very important exciting games whether that be fighting for promotion or fighting relegation and perhaps some seasons where you competed for Europe or won / come close in the cups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 16 minutes ago, archied said: For me it’s a balance , great football but ultimately not succeeding wears you down in the end ( general ,not Mac 1 based) but total dire football that gets us up and keeps us up will be just as wearing in the end ,,,, cant agree on clement tenure ,would much rather watch rowett s teams than Clements ,they both have a degree of caution in them , Clements was more based on possession keeping possession as a form of defence that ultimately lead to always playing the safe pass and never taking a risk which bored my tits off when took to it’s ultimate , for me a hybrid of mac1 and rowett would be the ultimate but that’s a very hard balance to hit ,you could probably say the same of a clough junior/ mac1 hybrid, so much comes down to the level of money you have to spend on the players needed to do the job required at the level your at Both Clement and rowetts football bored me to death. Our defence tho under rowett has been mostly solid....so a rowett defence and a Mac & Simpson midfield and attack would be thing of wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 33 minutes ago, rcarso1 said: I’d say ,looking at the last transfer window and the constraints of FFP rules,that would appear not to be the case. I wasn't really thinking in terms of financially more in terms of not developing and utilising our academy players in the squad in favour of safe old journeymen.....I'm pretty sure that's the opposite of what he and Mel stated was their aim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 On 17/02/2018 at 13:45, DC-1975 said: I've read, since the Wednesday defeat how the 2013/14 team where consistantly a 'league above' other teams and how this team certainly aren't. Yet that team, with all its flair players, was thrashed by Nigel Pearson's Leicester and constantly beaten by Burnley. (Leicester only just avoided relegation the following season and Burnley were relegated) The first Burnley game was under Clough, the second was completely ruined by Bobby Madley. The Leicester game saw us without Keogh, Russell and Eustace (let alone George) and they played five eventual title winners. From 5-0 to Fulham in 14/15 we were a class above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Gnarly Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 hour ago, jagerbob said: If your considerign voting for both, i suggest negative fans should get your vote.. as you are acknowleding it. If you vote recent form... its because you see nothing wrong with being negative or more likely you dont even realise you are being negative. That is the most common sense I have seen on this forum - Thank you my good sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I haven't voted as it's both and they go hand in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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