Griezmann

[Rev]

53 minutes ago, ronnieronalde said:

I don't know what people are upset about honestly I don't and that's coming from someone who was brought up as a white kid by a black dad with a black brother a white brother and a white sister.

To me they were then and they always will be just dad, brother and sister.

I grew up getting my head caved in for being the brother of a black lad. I went to play football for the only all Asian side in the town cos they used to get the living **** kicked out of them and I wanted to give a bit back. I got called racist then as well but I did what I could do to balance the books a bit on and off the pitch.

It's time to let the past go my friend, the more we cling on to stupid outdated ignorant views like those which used to exist, the more they'll hang around.

I understand about educating future generations but come on. it's getting beyond a joke.

I really feel sorry that AG apologised, he didn't mean it the way some wishy washy folk have taken it.

Again I'm sorry if that offends some of you with extra strong held views that the past shouldn't be let go.

You'd have made a fortune these days, hiring the family out for TV adverts.

[TigerTedd]

Here’s a scenario. 

Me and a bunch of mates are going for a night out. We decide to make it avengers themed. 

‘Right’, I say to my black mate, bob. ‘Are you going as black panther or falcon.’

‘Are they my only two choices?’

’yes’

’i kind of wanted to go as Thor.’

’well, you can’t, you’re black... wait, I’m an enlightened individual, so yes, of course you can, I’ll fetch you a nice blonde wig and an eye patch (spoilers). But who’s going to go as black panther then.’

’you can.’

’but I’m not black. It’s kind of an integral part of the character. He’s king of a secretive African country. Imagine if they cast a white guy in that role.’

’that’s okay, a black spandex costume, skin tight to show off you’re rippling pecs, and we’ll black you up.’

’oh, are you sure that’s okay?’

’yeah, why wouldn’t it be?’

’fair enough, let’s do it.’

later on that night I’m separated from bob, and the other avengers, and get my painted face caved in. I should’ve just gone with the mask option. 

(By the way, that’s the first time that occurred to me, what if Griezman had just worn a big comedy mask. Would that be better or worse?)

[Alph]

I think Anthony Joshua allegedly saying "black superior race" is possibly more newsworthy. Seen much of that story? 

I find some of the anti racist stuff too much tbh. It keeps making race relevant. 

Is it called positive discrimination or some *****? I think you should be hung like a member of the KKK if you've taken a clearly none issue and made an issue out of it. Shows race is important to you and clearly that's not helpful.

Looking forward to seeing Paul Chowdhury in March. A bloke that will take the piss out of cultures, attitudes and religion because thankfully some people out there find our differences something to talk about, laugh about. Not pretend we're all the same when we're clearly not. And be scared scared to say so. And it'll be one of the most mixed rooms of any comedian. 

It gets stupid. We all know what's racist and what isn't. God knows why we pretend stuff is offensive when it isn't.

Will Griezmann be in serious trouble over this? No. Because he's not racist. We need high profile racism though so we can all shout how anti racist we are. So sorry Antoine but we need to use you. Because race is important to us anti racists who are trying to tell you that race er, isn't important.. makes sense dunnit?

[ronnieronalde]

1 hour ago, TigerTedd said:

Here’s a scenario. 

Me and a bunch of mates are going for a night out. We decide to make it avengers themed. 

‘Right’, I say to my black mate, bob. ‘Are you going as black panther or falcon.’

‘Are they my only two choices?’

’yes’

’i kind of wanted to go as Thor.’

’well, you can’t, you’re black... wait, I’m an enlightened individual, so yes, of course you can, I’ll fetch you a nice blonde wig and an eye patch (spoilers). But who’s going to go as black panther then.’

’you can.’

’but I’m not black. It’s kind of an integral part of the character. He’s king of a secretive African country. Imagine if they cast a white guy in that role.’

’that’s okay, a black spandex costume, skin tight to show off you’re rippling pecs, and we’ll black you up.’

’oh, are you sure that’s okay?’

’yeah, why wouldn’t it be?’

’fair enough, let’s do it.’

later on that night I’m separated from bob, and the other avengers, and get my painted face caved in. I should’ve just gone with the mask option. 

(By the way, that’s the first time that occurred to me, what if Griezman had just worn a big comedy mask. Would that be better or worse?)

and a bonus like/quote for the script writing. I'd probably giggle my silly little head off at the end of that if it were a sitcom.

 

*edited to add

as long as you were sufficiently beaten for your narrow minded ways, but no so badly that you couldn't immediately enrol on a self awareness course and do the paid community service so you can pay for the lads who hit you to have counselling as you no doubt left them mentally scarred. Boo you.

[sage]

9 hours ago, sage said:

There is a long history of segregation, prejudice and apartheid. There is specific history of black people not being allowed to appear in films, theatre or other performances. They were replaced by white people who blacked up. Therefore a white person for amusement could be seen as representing a time when black people were so prejudiced against that they were allowed to portray themselves in culture.  

More contentiously it could be argued that basketball is seen as one of the few areas that white people admit black people excel in therefore this could be viewed as stereotyping and suggesting that this is all black people are good for.

 

Out of interest I would like someone to point out where i said I was offended or called Greizmann racist. 

I amused by the direction of this thread with posters inventing scenarios to froth at the mouth about when from what I can see no one accused him of racism or claimed to be offended.

 

[Norman]

6 minutes ago, sage said:

Out of interest I would like someone to point out where i said I was offended or called Greizmann racist. 

I amused by the direction of this thread with posters inventing scenarios to froth at the mouth about when from what I can see no one accused him of racism or claimed to be offended.

 

To be fair to you, you didn't. But this is what happens to me on the Brexit thread.

One line of a post gets picked upon, maybe misread, and before you know it four pages have gone past of complete *****.

[Grimbeard]

Would it be racist of me to say that I just don't care if anyone is offended by white people blacking up? There has surely got to be more important things to get in a tizzy over.

[Alph]

1 hour ago, sage said:

Out of interest I would like someone to point out where i said I was offended or called Greizmann racist. 

I amused by the direction of this thread with posters inventing scenarios to froth at the mouth about when from what I can see no one accused him of racism or claimed to be offended.

 

You didn't mate

I'll be honest, I saw a couple of things online about him doing something racist and offensive. Then I saw the thread and went off on one.

I just hate anti racist stuff as much as racism. There's a place for anti racism but way too often it's not where it should be and it makes 1)race an issue And 2) a joke of actual racism.

All the tippy tappy ***** around racism makes me mardy. If people want to be open about race then let's do it. Let's go all the way. Why did you black up Antoine? You blacked up because when you think basketball you think lanky black blokes. When you think of the front of a marathon you think some skinny Kenyan, Ethiopian etc. When you joke about going to prison what race is the big fella we joke about in the showers. He's black. Because the joke is black people have whoppers. White people live in the rich suburbs and think everyone is beneath them etc etc

Just get it all out there, we can all get offended and then move on with our lives and racism to the average bloke stops becoming a stupid taboo and then maybe we can talk about it openly and seriously now that every sheltered **** *** has been offended.

Or...

Ignore it. Don't have black music awards, black tv, the first black president, the first black actor. Don't push for black coaches. Don't be anti racist at all. Ignore race. If there's not a single black manager in football then ignore it. I know all these are trying to do good but they kind of turn us into this society where we pretend we are all the same, race isn't an issue and we're afraid to talk about it in case we expose how important race is to us.

I don't believe the second option is possible. Because race, religion and culture has such an impact on the way we live. 

I want to know if I'm a black dude going for a job as president of America or manager of Stoke (maybe both at the same time considering both are comical roles) then I want to know I did it because I'm good enough. Not because I'm best out the blacks. I don't want to be a token black guy. That's more offensive that somebody has taken into account my skin tone before anything else. Is that not what we're trying to defeat here?

As you can see. I find it very confusing. 

I bet Paul Chowdhury broadens the horizon more than KickItOut. Like he says "Dave, you thought all these brown people were the same innit?" What makes it funny is just how true it is. It just makes a mockery of racism and race. 

It would be nice to see racism played down a bit so we can actually share our differences. These anti racism things don't let us. They live in a hypocritical fantasy land.

[Alph]

Don't think I said "racism" and "race" enough in my last post. 

[Albert]

18 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

I don’t get that either, to be honest. If I me and my mates want to go to a fancy dress party as the a-team, have we got to go out and find a token black guy to be ba baracas?

Or is it a case that I could where a Mohawk wig, and a bunch of fake gold chains, but it isn’t necessary for me to black up to complete the effect. 

I suppose if a black guy wanted to dress as where’s wally for a fancy dress party, I wouldn’t say it’s not appropriate for them to ‘white up’ in that situation. 

But then I’ve seen that happen, and the guy’s had to describe himself as ‘I’m the black where’s wally’. Why do you have to be the black where’s wally, why can’t you just be where’s wally?

i painted my face green to be the Incredible Hulk once. I’m not sure if I should be ashamed now. 

The problem is the historical context of blackface, there exists no such historical context for "whiteface", nor "greenface", etc. 

[Cisse]

My biggest sports heroes of all time are Muhammad Ali and John Mcenroe. If I want to go to a costume party as one of them I don't think there is anything racist there what so ever. I have loved those guys always. Only thing possibly offensive in me going into a party as them is if someone has seen me boxing or playing tennis.

[G STAR RAM]

4 hours ago, Albert said:

The problem is the historical context of blackface, there exists no such historical context for "whiteface", nor "greenface", etc. 

The key word being historical.

Things such as slavery and blackface in that context have been consigned to the history books.

 

[TigerTedd]

8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

The key word being historical.

Things such as slavery and blackface in that context have been consigned to the history books.

 

I agree with this wholeheartedly. But there is an important point to add that history shouldn’t simply be forgotten, ignored or swept under the carpet.

its a bit like Jews remembering holocaust day. It’s right to remember it, but what they don’t do is blame any current Germans. Whereas black people have a day to remember slavery, and all white people who had nothing to do with it, seem to e obliged to feel guilty and apologetic.

Having said that, black people still start out life not on a level playing field, before a ball has even been kicked (although I think I that’s more true in America these days), and that’s because if the damage done throughout history. So a bit of positive discrimination is needed to level the playing field in the first place. But where do you draw the line, or where do you declare ‘mission complete’ the playing field is now level, we don’t need to keep doing positive discrimination anymore?

[Cisse]

If a white guy who is a big Michael Jackson fan goes to a costume party as a Michael Jackson, what should he do? If he makes himself looking like black someone will be offended. If he goes as a white someone will be offended again since Michael had that skin disorder.

If someone do something without racism behind it isn't it racist to treat that person as a racist?

[Albert]

1 hour ago, TigerTedd said:

I agree with this wholeheartedly. But there is an important point to add that history shouldn’t simply be forgotten, ignored or swept under the carpet.

its a bit like Jews remembering holocaust day. It’s right to remember it, but what they don’t do is blame any current Germans. Whereas black people have a day to remember slavery, and all white people who had nothing to do with it, seem to e obliged to feel guilty and apologetic.

Having said that, black people still start out life not on a level playing field, before a ball has even been kicked (although I think I that’s more true in America these days), and that’s because if the damage done throughout history. So a bit of positive discrimination is needed to level the playing field in the first place. But where do you draw the line, or where do you declare ‘mission complete’ the playing field is now level, we don’t need to keep doing positive discrimination anymore?

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

The key word being historical.

Things such as slavery and blackface in that context have been consigned to the history books.

 

However, Jewish people tend not to be pleased when people dress up as stormtroopers and go about hailing Hitler. Just because something seems far removed to people who weren't persecuted doesn't mean there still aren't serious scars.

"Black people" don't feel that all "white people" need to be guilty and apologetic, they just don't want racist gits in their faces. There are cases where people want justice still, notably cases of such exist around the World, including places like Australia, but that isn't the same as people suggesting that all "white people" need to feel guilty and apologetic. 

Blackface not being okay though goes further than America, it has deep roots in racism in France too. This isn't just a beatup for no reason, and though it was likely done with innocent intentions, there's a reason people are upset. 

As for "positive discrimination", you shouldn't be helping people solely because of race or otherwise, but rather their circumstances. The problem is that too many countries have been taken over by right wingers in recent years, leading to any sense of taking care of the poor, the vulnerable and the needing being seen as a waste, rather than a service which improves the lives of everyone long term. That's a whole different kettle of fish though. 

[Alph]

Is Antoine Griezmann racist?

[SaintRam]

13 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

Here’s a scenario. 

Me and a bunch of mates are going for a night out. We decide to make it avengers themed. 

‘Right’, I say to my black mate, bob. ‘Are you going as black panther or falcon.’

‘Are they my only two choices?’

’yes’

’i kind of wanted to go as Thor.’

’well, you can’t, you’re black... wait, I’m an enlightened individual, so yes, of course you can, I’ll fetch you a nice blonde wig and an eye patch (spoilers). But who’s going to go as black panther then.’

’you can.’

’but I’m not black. It’s kind of an integral part of the character. He’s king of a secretive African country. Imagine if they cast a white guy in that role.’

’that’s okay, a black spandex costume, skin tight to show off you’re rippling pecs, and we’ll black you up.’

’oh, are you sure that’s okay?’

’yeah, why wouldn’t it be?’

’fair enough, let’s do it.’

later on that night I’m separated from bob, and the other avengers, and get my painted face caved in. I should’ve just gone with the mask option. 

(By the way, that’s the first time that occurred to me, what if Griezman had just worn a big comedy mask. Would that be better or worse?)

In this scenario, why, if you blacked up, did your friend not "white up"? 

Obviously, in normal circumstances its perfectly normal and common for people to dress up as characters portrayed by members of another race without changing their skin colour, as I've pointed out before (my contribution to this 'discussion' being continually that the blacking up is an unnecessary step whether you find it offensive or not) -

But it's a bit of a hole in the context of your story - as not only did your black friend not feel the need to white up, he is the one who suggested you black up. 

Frankly, I don't think he likes you.

[TuffLuff]

15 minutes ago, Alpha said:

Is Antoine Griezmann racist?

I doubt it, but that doesn’t mean what he did wasn’t a racist act. It was probably out of ignorance rather than hatred but it still unfortunately stands. This is because white people blacking up historically was to mock a group they didn’t even consider the same race to be lazy, dumb and feckless. This wasn’t just a blight on the past, it happened an a huge scale for over a century. So it has a lot of connotations, dare I say more than what some on here realise.

He apologised, it’s pretty obvious that it was an ignorance. Hopefully he learns from it. No one needs to defend blacking up!

[Bob Gnarly]

41 minutes ago, SaintRam said:

In this scenario, why, if you blacked up, did your friend not "white up"? 

Obviously, in normal circumstances its perfectly normal and common for people to dress up as characters portrayed by members of another race without changing their skin colour, as I've pointed out before (my contribution to this 'discussion' being continually that the blacking up is an unnecessary step whether you find it offensive or not) -

But it's a bit of a hole in the context of your story - as not only did your black friend not feel the need to white up, he is the one who suggested you black up. 

Frankly, I don't think he likes you.

Nothing wrong with wanting your mate to get pummeled... how many times have you looked at your friends and though  you could give em a right good smack?

[SaintRam]

1 minute ago, Mr Giggles said:

Nothing wrong with wanting your mate to get pummeled... how many times have you looked at your friends and though  you could give em a right good smack?

You forget yourself Sir,

I thought it was clear I have no friends.

 

That is a fair point, mind.