Derby are so average

[Day]

2 minutes ago, GeneralRam said:

The thing that got me was that we were improving every season. It might have been slow, it might have been underwhelming but the bloke took 10 years to get Burton where they are now and it's entirely down to him they got there in the first place.

Build the team too quickly and you get a Jenga tower where one block goes it comes crashing down. If the foundations are built slow and the block goes, the tower stays.

Slow? I had a full head of hair when we appointed him, I had to comb one half over by the time he left. At the speed we were going I would have been on the pitch getting a Derby County branded motorised scooter ?

[SSD]

I think the fans and the chairman need to accept that we'll probably be sitting in mid-table for a season or two. We've had our 4 past seasons flirting with promotion and now we need to overhaul the squad over the next 2 seasons. After the Wembley defeat, myself and most of the lads on my row genuinely felt we'd run away with the league the following season. We were unstoppable at home and managed to grind out victories away. Perfect. But then we had a rough time with injuries the 2nd half of the following season that cost us. Players especially the old guard like Keogh, Martin, Russell need to get rid of this attitude of we (did) play great football so we deserve to be in the top 6. Sick of hearing it during interviews. "We can beat anyone in this division." That was 3 years ago. Just accept you're not that great and you're living on a reputation 4 years old. Nobody cares anymore, you're bang average championship footballers. Start working your arses off, that's how you got to Wembley in the first place.

 

I feel for Gary Rowett. Think the bloke needs to put his foot down more with senior players if he wants to be successful. If he p*sses some of them off because they think they've got the right to be in the squad every week, so be it. Good for him. Because most fans are sick of these players on silly money looking comfortable week in week out. Russell throws his dummy out, great to hear. Might actually get him motivated to start playing well. For once can we let a manager have a couple of full seasons because hiring and firing has done nothing to resolve the problem. I personally don't care about big money signings anymore. I'd rather have an underdog team over-achieving than an over bloated, overpaid squad under performing.

[Day]

As we've started down the Nigel Clough path, my fault, apologies. 

Forget Mel, let's assume he won't sack Rowett, won't happen.

What did Nigel Clough get right straight away to not be questioned this early into his tenure as Rowett is?

As @GeneralRam said Nigel improved us slowly, but the season he arrived in the January we finished 18th. The following season he took us up to the dizzy heights of 14th with a full season in charge, great, the first 9 games in we had W3 D1 L5. Lost 4 in a row at one point. 

Was there calls for him to go, questioning him 9 games in, I honestly can't remember. Or did we have more patience back then, realised the size of the job on his hands?

For what it's worth the next season he took us back 5 places into 19th yet stayed in the job.

The last two seasons a rebuild has been talked about on this forum at least, big clear out of failed players. Rowett is the first man to actually start that rebuilding process, spoke of his frustrations not being able to do more. Did we expect it to be done in one window, wave his wand and away we go?

I've seen fans questioning the Rowett appointment, what track record does he have, what track record did Nigel have when we appointed him? Never managed a single Championship game yet he we are, 4 years on, still giving him credit for building the squad which was the foundations of renewed expectations are built on.

That squad was built over a number of seasons, not one window. Was the job harder? of course, financially Nigel's hands were tied as are Rowett's compared to previous managers.

Just trying to understand why we've gone from a club that was outraged at a manager being sacked after several seasons, to one now that's writing a manager off after 9 games in, almost goading Mel to pull the trigger. 

Can we not see that foundations are built on stability, don't tell me the football under Nigel was always pretty, we had to endure some pretty rough stuff back then.

[BOB BIGGS]

I backed Clough long term because I felt he inherited a squad that gave him no chance of success for many seasons. Against a background of little money to spend, he raided a few Clubs and brought in a number of players who were excellent value [Bryson, Martin, Barker, Buxton, Keogh, Forsyth, Russell etc] who played Clough's way - as a team..Steve McLaren added a few flair players to that squad and we played some excellent football for a while, but unfortunately,  not long enough.

Under NC, it wasn't always good to watch and it wasn't always effective. However, I felt that we were slowly improving. From not being able to win away in his penultimate season, we started scoring goals for fun in a few away games he had before he was sacked. Ironically, it was the home form that gave Sam the chance to pounce. In the previous season, we had been decent at home.

So, I liked that team spirit. I felt the players were giving their best. I don't ask for more than that. I went to the game yesterday, a round trip of 400 miles for me. It was one of the worst games I've ever had the privilege of attending and that must total more than 500 over 50 years. So, whatever we've been trying to do hasn't worked. Just watching some of the £25m worth of players we've signed in the last couple of seasons makes me wonder how Gary Rowett gets out of this alive.

He's inherited a Nigel Clough type situation for sure. That being so, I will back him long term as well. He needs time to impose himself. I don't think he's started too well on some of his dealings [in and out] but let's hope future transfers will be more logical and that he too can find some players who will prove to be good value.. I suspect FFP has us around the throat. That's not Gary Rowett's fault, it's the fault of those that agreed to spend such ludicrous amounts on such average players.

It's time to baton down the hatches, accept a mid table finish at best and look to future seasons for a recovery.

Happy Daze

[jagerbob]

15 hours ago, Tim Bucktoo said:

We are so drab, it's beyond disappointing. What the hell has happened? I really don't know. 

Can someone please explain why a team that was recently on the brink of promotion, is now just so ruddy tedious and inept?

Is it GR or is there a deeper malaise? For over 2 years the team has not progressed in any way, whether it be players, style or performance. And it's costing Mel a small fortune. If we finish higher than 7th, i'll be amazed. GR's long ball tactics aren't working and will never get us promoted. 

Answers on a postcard etc...

 

Why do derby fans call anything which isnt sideways tippy tappy, long ball?

We arent a long ball team at all and you know it.

Do you call all premiership teams long ball, because they dont play like barcelona, but play on the break in a 4-2-3-1 formation aswell?

 

[RoyMac5]

3 hours ago, David said:

Just trying to understand why we've gone from a club that was outraged at a manager being sacked after several seasons, to one now that's writing a manager off after 9 games in, almost goading Mel to pull the trigger. 

Can we not see that foundations are built on stability, don't tell me the football under Nigel was always pretty, we had to endure some pretty rough stuff back then.

Resume: because it wasn't Clough that did anything bar stabilise the club, Mac made the most of the resources Clough had put in place. Rowett might be having to do another Clough but he doesn't look up to taking it further, who will be the next Mac?

[North East Ram]

31 minutes ago, jagerbob said:

Why do derby fans call anything which isnt sideways tippy tappy, long ball?

We arent a long ball team at all and you know it.

Do you call all premiership teams long ball, because they dont play like barcelona, but play on the break in a 4-2-3-1 formation aswell?

 

If the long ball / pass is accurate, controlled and then used positively in the subsequent phase of play, then that's good. If the ball is played long down the middle or channels in a speculative manner where it is either not received by a Derby player or flicked on to no-one in particular, then that's not very good. 

I think i know what you're getting at but I'm not exclusively advocating so called 'tippy tappy' football either. However, having possession of the ball and then retaining possession as you move further up the field towards the oppo goal / creating a chance / having an effort on goal is also good and i like that type of football funnily enough.

if a Prem team or any team plays it long and it's a good pass, then fair enough, that's also good football. Barca are irrelevant in this context but they do use long passes too. 

 

[Gypsy Ram]

4 hours ago, GeneralRam said:

The thing that got me was that we were improving every season. It might have been slow, it might have been underwhelming but the bloke took 10 years to get Burton where they are now and it's entirely down to him they got there in the first place.

Build the team too quickly and you get a Jenga tower where one block goes it comes crashing down. If the foundations are built slow and the block goes, the tower stays.

What foundations is Rowett building? Davies? Huddelstone? That Kief bloke? I didn't see anything to show me he's building a proper team from scratch. 

The foundation was built by Clough Jr, and Steve was the man to take on further.

Even under clement, he had an idea, a vision and a style that had us 5 points off the top in his first job ever. And everyone's favourite villain was scoring for fun.

I'll give the bloke the time. But I won't shed any tears if he's gone.

 

[Warren Hobhead]

10 hours ago, MackworthRamIsGod said:

Generalram nailed it really.

We completely messed up spending all the money we did on Weimann, Johnson, Butterfield etc. 

For one transfer window (And one only) we were the bullies of the championship, signing who we wanted from where we wanted.

Only we bought crap for a lot of cash.

It is going to take a few transfer windows and a lot of patience to get us anywhere near a top 6 side, it's just whether we have the patience to watch Rowett football for a couple of years.

Mel and some fans clearly had no patience. Clement had us top with the 'crap' you refer to. 5th when he was sacked. And you're asking now for patience if we are to make the top six. 

[Jayram]

32 minutes ago, Gypsy Ram said:

What foundations is Rowett building? Davies? Huddelstone? That Kief bloke? I didn't see anything to show me he's building a proper team from scratch. 

The foundation was built by Clough Jr, and Steve was the man to take on further.

Even under clement, he had an idea, a vision and a style that had us 5 points off the top in his first job ever. And everyone's favourite villain was scoring for fun.

I'll give the bloke the time. But I won't shed any tears if he's gone.

 

Exactly. Clough bought the players in but didn't know how to take them to the next level. SM was the man who did. I see Rowett in the same way as I see Clough - simply not up to the job of taking this club to the next level. Like you I won't shed a single tear if he goes; I can't stand his style of football, but for the sake of the clubs stability I think he should be given the season. That way if he isn't up to the job he'll have hung himself by his own petard.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

5 hours ago, SouthStandDan said:

I think the fans and the chairman need to accept that we'll probably be sitting in mid-table for a season or two. We've had our 4 past seasons flirting with promotion and now we need to overhaul the squad over the next 2 seasons. After the Wembley defeat, myself and most of the lads on my row genuinely felt we'd run away with the league the following season. We were unstoppable at home and managed to grind out victories away. Perfect. But then we had a rough time with injuries the 2nd half of the following season that cost us. Players especially the old guard like Keogh, Martin, Russell need to get rid of this attitude of we (did) play great football so we deserve to be in the top 6. Sick of hearing it during interviews. "We can beat anyone in this division." That was 3 years ago. Just accept you're not that great and you're living on a reputation 4 years old. Nobody cares anymore, you're bang average championship footballers. Start working your arses off, that's how you got to Wembley in the first place.

 

I feel for Gary Rowett. Think the bloke needs to put his foot down more with senior players if he wants to be successful. If he p*sses some of them off because they think they've got the right to be in the squad every week, so be it. Good for him. Because most fans are sick of these players on silly money looking comfortable week in week out. Russell throws his dummy out, great to hear. Might actually get him motivated to start playing well. For once can we let a manager have a couple of full seasons because hiring and firing has done nothing to resolve the problem. I personally don't care about big money signings anymore. I'd rather have an underdog team over-achieving than an over bloated, overpaid squad under performing.

I don't feel for him at all...it's his job to get the best out of his players,whoever he has and he clearly isn't at the moment.....and he brought plenty in that look worse than who they have replaced....

It's not the players at fault here.

[Inglorius]

What was the gate yesterday? Lucky for Rowett we've got Forest at home next game. 

[europia]

17 hours ago, GeneralRam said:

As with quite a lot of clubs that spend money needlessly, you become s***.

After the playoff disappointment we just needed a few players and the squad slightly tweaking. We had a real identity, neutrals loved watching us and we did things the right way. Instead Mel got his feet under the table and chucked money at it when he didn't need to. 

This caused us to be like QPR, and like QPR when the s*** journeymen didn't give a rat's arse about the club and it began to falter, the owner tightens the purse strings and you get a squad that doesn't give a s*** and doesn't perform. The owner then realises it doesn't work, he's spunking a ton of cash and tries another way.

We are now in vicious cycle of expectation, disappointment and frustration. When Clough was here, we had no expectation which resulted in him getting time to sort out the mess.

 

Fair comment indeed

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

18 minutes ago, Inglorius said:

What was the gate yesterday? Lucky for Rowett we've got Forest at home next game. 

Just over 27..so a 3000ish drop since the majority of games I went to last year

[NottsRam77]

17 hours ago, GeneralRam said:

As with quite a lot of clubs that spend money needlessly, you become s***.

After the playoff disappointment we just needed a few players and the squad slightly tweaking. We had a real identity, neutrals loved watching us and we did things the right way. Instead Mel got his feet under the table and chucked money at it when he didn't need to. 

This caused us to be like QPR, and like QPR when the s*** journeymen didn't give a rat's arse about the club and it began to falter, the owner tightens the purse strings and you get a squad that doesn't give a s*** and doesn't perform. The owner then realises it doesn't work, he's spunking a ton of cash and tries another way.

We are now in vicious cycle of expectation, disappointment and frustration. When Clough was here, we had no expectation which resulted in him getting time to sort out the mess.

 

Can this post be pinned please for all to read and get their heads round.

absolutely bang on the money mate

take a bow son lol

[1967Ram]

We had a way of playing which was pleasing on the eye and for a lot of the time got positive results. We have forsaken that way (the Derby way?) for another way which needs a complete rebuild. So far I'm not impressed with the new Derby way. Time will tell but there is only one club I can support, and I'm not optimistic at the moment. If we can't win, I want to at least see us playing an entertaining style of football. 

[Bris Vegas]

Clough bought himself plenty of time by bringing in young players.

The likes of Brayford, Bailey, Cywka, Bryson, Russell, Martin, Pringle, Buxton, Moxey, Fielding, Maguire, Naylor, Theo, Coutts, Sammon, Forsyth...

If I'm not mistaken, all of these players were brought in when they 25 or younger while the likes of Keogh and Shackell came at 26/27.

McClaren's first window here saw Thorne and Christie arrive. 

Compare that to the 2015/16 window under Clement when Baird, Bent, Carson, Pearce, Shackell, Bradley Johnson arrived... All 27 or over on big wages.

I thought Rowett would at least push for a long-term plan by bringing in younger players again, but somehow he has only brought our average age up with the likes of Davies, Huddlestone and Ledley.

We've become a retirement home for some and others looking for that final paycheque.

[RamNut]

Even i'm starting to feel sorry for Mel now.

No matter what he tries, it all seems to go tits up. 

Gary ticked all the boxes but his strategy seems flawed.

He limited his options, and is now relying on significant further activity in January in order to correct his own botched repair job.

 

[Philmycock]

We replaced....

Ince with Lawrence

Christie with Baird (via Wisdom)

Shackell with Davies

Hughes with No-one

Butterfield with Huddlestone

Bryson with Ledley (temp)

....good business???? No wonder we’re now average, bar Shackell they’ve all gone to higher-placed clubs.

[Tricky1884]

11 minutes ago, philmycock said:

We replaced....

Ince with Lawrence

Christie with Baird (via Wisdom)

Shackell with Davies

Hughes with No-one

Butterfield with Huddlestone

Bryson with Ledley (temp)

....good business???? No wonder we’re now average, bar Shackell there all gone to higher-placed clubs.

Hughes for Huddlestone surely?