DRBee Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: Good post.. The last paragraph sums up DCFC for me, just one big contradiction. Everything that comes out of the club should be taken with a pinch of salt. b******* most of it. Rowett should at least be given until the end of this window to show his intentions and his ability to deliver. Fans are understandably impatient but we know a good proportion of transfer deals are not done until near the end of the window. If we fail to bring in at least one player with the skill he promised then we will know his talk cannot be trusted. In the meantime he could do a bit better with what he has got. Playing Vydra from the start rather than this "impact sub" garbage would help as would trying to stick with a settled selection for a few games . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 1 hour ago, DRBee said: Playing Vydra from the start rather than this "impact sub" garbage would help as would trying to stick with a settled selection for a few games . If only he had been fit preseason or now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretsquirrel Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 For the club to move on from the previous few seasons of underachievement it needs what politicians always annoyingly call "Root and Branch surgery. During the summer all we have done is a little branch surgery there are still plenty of players that need moving on as unfortunately their time at Derby needs to be over-sadly other managers see what we see and there are no takers with terms either acceptable to us or the player/agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 13 hours ago, King Kevin said: We have seen what can be done ie when SM took over from NC you wouldn't believe they were the same players .However GR may prove to be a better manager than SM but he sure ain't a better coach. That Clough team was largely there though. All it needed was tweaking. Bryson already had six goals and four assists by McClaren's first game, Martin six and one, we'd scored 21 goals after 12 games. We improved at defensive set-pieces and abandoned the silly diamond. The team was built to play football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 You improve what you have by getting the right blend for them to flourish. Sign partners to allow them to do their thing. Can we find the right blend with what we already have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I don't think it's possible that Rowett wins promotion with the current bunch of players. You can only improve players so much but that would take too long, we need success right now because the gap with the premier league is getting bigger and bigger. We have a few good players that would be useful in a promotion chase like Carson, Keogh, Davies, Huddlestone, Martin, Nugent and Vydra but again in points back to the positions that have been issues for a few years now, the midfield spot and wide positions. If we had kept Ince and added a left winger like Lawrence and another centre mid like James, that team would have been ready for automatic promotion, but as it stands, we aren't good enough. This team would have been good enough though: Carson Wisdom Keogh Davies Forsyth Huddlestone James Ince Vydra Lawrence Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 13 hours ago, reveldevil said: As the title says, is it unrealistic to expect Gary Rowett, as a youngish up and coming manager, to improve both the performances and the resulting outcomes of the existing squad to improve our final position? I think an improvement in the actual side, how they play, how they work together etc etc is perfectly possible - Depends on the players embracing the managers thinking and style - Which hopefully is happening However - My big concern is whether he'll be able to attract the calibre of player we need and whether he has the contacts around the game to get them - There's no doubt in my mind that McClaren has a reputation as a great coach which is why the likes of Bamford and Wisdom were practically driven to us by their managers at the time - And his ability to pick up the phone to almost any top manager in the country would surely have made a difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 3 hours ago, DRBee said: Rowett should at least be given until the end of this window to show his intentions and his ability to deliver. Fans are understandably impatient but we know a good proportion of transfer deals are not done until near the end of the window. If we fail to bring in at least one player with the skill he promised then we will know his talk cannot be trusted. In the meantime he could do a bit better with what he has got. Playing Vydra from the start rather than this "impact sub" garbage would help as would trying to stick with a settled selection for a few games . He needs much more time than one window IMO. Give him Jan and next summer too if needs be. We can't keep sacking managers after 6 months, it's absolutely madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 1 hour ago, cheron85 said: However - My big concern is whether he'll be able to attract the calibre of player we need and whether he has the contacts around the game to get them ... I realise that this isn't quite what you mean, but I'm starting to feel that the continued line of 'we've got lots of bids out there' could be hindering things somewhat? Afterall who wants to sign for a club while realising you're perhaps third choice of the manager?! Oh, for the money... If we were the only team in for some of these players I can just about see it but in competition with another club who want YOU, not just a winger. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 10 hours ago, Carl Sagan said: Gary talks a good talk but has made several errors. Not picking Hughes when he came in last season was bizarre and Rowett refusing to give Will any guarantees that things would be different this time around inevitably led to Hughes' departure. Selling Hughes, Ince and Christie right at the start of the transfer window and massively underestimating transfer valuations has demonstrably made it difficult to bring in flair replacements. We sell Will for £5m while we're being quoted £15m for Che Adams - go figure. And I'm pretty sure time will tell (not necessarily a lot of time either) that Christie is a far better fullback than Wisdom. It's clear (and no bad thing) that Gary is a huge fan of Johnny Russell and wanted to bring him to Brum. Last season GR preferred to play Johnny behind the central striker putting Vydra out on the wing rather than the other way around. Probably 99% of the forum would have known that to be madness and the team only picked up when Rowett eventually switched their positions. Again, GR played Russell as the central striker of a 3 in a 4-2-3-1 formation at Grimsby. Is it that he can't help himself or were there really no other options? Or is JR going to be a 20 goal man playing there this season after all? Gary said he wanted a much smaller squad. Four players have left but three have come in, but also several have returned from loans meaning the squad appears no smaller. It should be realistic for every manager to improve what he inherits and I see no reason whatsoever why Rowett should be any different. He has Mel's backing (hence selling golden boy Hughes for peanuts) and is at a club with a recent hustory of unfulfilled potential. I want to believe. I think it's too early to judge, but had he put his faith in Hughes then I think we could still have made the other signings and would have had the most skillful midfielder in the league to knit defence and atttack together (as well as the option of going long from Big Tom). That would have been more potent than what we have now. It seems to me that Gary is going for a team of athletes not artisans. The last manager to do that was Billy Davies and he did get us up. All will be fine if Gary is able to deliver the same (which with Mel's backing would lead to a better ultimate outcome). And if he does manage that, Rowett will have improved us. Gary (or Mel?) said we'd be recruiting young hungry players with the potential to gain value and avoiding premier league journeymen looking for one last payday. Two of our three signings have been premier league journeymen looking for one last payday. Good post and I agree with the majority of this. The last paragraph for me is open to debate though. Yes the signings have gone against the grain of what's been said. There is exceptions to every rule though. The rule was definitely worth breaking in this case IMO. If you spin the situation on it's head and say we missed out on them signings and they'd signed for rivals for promotion. I'd hazard a guess that we'd been debating why we hadn't made a move for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said: I realise that this isn't quite what you mean, but I'm starting to feel that the continued line of 'we've got lots of bids out there' could be hindering things somewhat? Afterall who wants to sign for a club while realising you're perhaps third choice of the manager?! Oh, for the money... If we were the only team in for some of these players I can just about see it but in competition with another club who want YOU, not just a winger. *shrug* I actually think it could be fine - Your top choice will always know he's top choice and any others are probably going to know they were a backup choice anyway - And chance are your 2nd or 3rd choices are less likely to be a 'star' if you've had to drop down that far - So good for them to have that expectation - Don't want to bring in a player who's a rotation player but thinks they're going to be first choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derbados Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 17 hours ago, reveldevil said: As the title says, is it unrealistic to expect Gary Rowett, as a youngish up and coming manager, to improve both the performances and the resulting outcomes of the existing squad to improve our final position? David Wagner managed it at Huddersfield with a much smaller budget and a poorer squad than what we've got. He was very smart in the transfer market, bought in some good players for cheap from foreign markets (something our scouting system seems totally incapable of doing!!) and improved the players he had at his disposal. so far we seem to have improved a defense that on the whole, was one of the best in the division last season but significantly weakened an attack that was very poor. . . so i dont really understand what we are doing. Time will tell with the quality of the attacking players we potentially sign this window, but so far we seem to be running further and further down the list and we are already in to the season where points count, even at this early stage. I think its a perfectly realistic expectation for Rowett to improve what we have but also to bring in some quality, im sure every club in the division will be expecting that of their managers/head coaches as a bare minimum, otherwise whats the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 28 minutes ago, Derbados said: David Wagner managed it at Huddersfield with a much smaller budget and a poorer squad than what we've got. He was very smart in the transfer market, bought in some good players for cheap from foreign markets (something our scouting system seems totally incapable of doing!!) and improved the players he had at his disposal. Of their regular XI last season only Wells, Hogg and Smith weren't his signings. They didn't really need a clear out. They sold their stars (Butters, Lynch, Smithies and Coady), built a new XI and naturally the old starters became bench players. Not something we can really do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 14 minutes ago, cannable said: Of their regular XI last season only Wells, Hogg and Smith weren't his signings. They didn't really need a clear out. They sold their stars (Butters, Lynch, Smithies and Coady), built a new XI and naturally the old starters became bench players. Not something we can really do. He enabled a identity though. Called them to be dark horses when we beat them 2-0 down here towards end of 15/16 season..... he not been in charge long, could see he had the way of playing but not the players..... rebuilt with no world beaters..... and look where it got them. He was given time. That's the difference between Derby and Huddersfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, Mafiabob said: He enabled a identity though. Called them to be dark horses when we beat them 2-0 down here towards end of 15/16 season..... he not been in charge long, could see he had the way of playing but not the players..... rebuilt with no world beaters..... and look where it got them. He was given time. That's the difference between Derby and Huddersfield. He was specifically brought in to culture an identity. I have no idea what Rowett's been brought in to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 In principle I would expect every manager of dcfc to seek to improve results and performances through a combination of astute transfer activity, skills/tactics coaching and tactical team set-up. Transfer windows are only relevant to one of these, the other 2 should be more continuous improvement activities. This summer I have been surprised that we were still trying out all personnel in varying positions and tactical set ups. We seem a bit further back in our squad development than I thought but then rowett seems to know what he wants to buy - which I imagined was the last resort if coaching failed. What do I know. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nogbad van 50 Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I was talking to three football coaches earlier today,all from West Brom.All three said we've "got one of the best managers in the country " and that we should "let him get on with the job " as he's extremely good at it.They called him a "good motivator",a "man manager" and a "good assessor of character and ability"."He'll turn your club around but it'll take him about a year" was the last thing they said-we shall see!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 The Question is a closed type of question. Otherwise what's he doing here? Should every manager be at a club to improve what he has inherited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, toddy said: The Question is a closed type of question. Otherwise what's he doing here? Should every manager be at a club to improve what he has inherited? Yep, but given the time to do so...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 49 minutes ago, cannable said: He was specifically brought in to culture an identity. I have no idea what Rowett's been brought in to do! To hopefully manage more than 30 games I hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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