Are we allowed an alternative view.

[Angry Ram]

12 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

And I will happily listen to negative views as long as they are constructive.

Believe it or not I did not want Pearson sacked and said as much at the time. It really just left us in the middle of nowhere.

Mac gave the fans false belief hence the melodramatic reactions now.

I don't want him sacked but actually don't think it would have any effect on anything because he has done very little to the mish mash he inherited.

And I have no problems with your comments, always well constructed and in essence I don't think we are that far apart on many things. 

I did not want Clement or Pearson sacked but for very different reasons. Both needed more time but I will admit, I scratched my head with Persons appointment and never really got over the Brighton team selection.

[RadioactiveWaste]

10 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

There is one in the Pub.

Perhaps worth putting it in rams talk (or a link to it), as thats where most people jump right in (I did)

[LazloW]

3 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

It's not the word 'entitlement' it's a good word, one I have had no problem with in the past. I just think it is used incorrectly here, it's used in a derogatory way. I watched us play Villa yesterday and why would I not feel entitled to beat one of the poorest teams I have seen this season. Are we wrong wanting DCFC, our club, playing at a higher level, just being better. Or should we be derided for wanting that? Is that right? On what level, surely that is what sport is about.. We are Derby, people keep telling me we have some of the best facilities in the country, the best owner who ever lived, one of the best stadiums in the league. We are a Premier League club but not a team.. So people can't feel they want more for the team they support? 

No the word 'entitlement' has appeared over the last few weeks as a way of trying to belittle people. Moral high ground? Don't expect too much and you won't be disappointed? I don't know but I will never stop wanting my/our team to do better. No we have no Devine right to anything, but I don't think I have ever seen anyone say that.. So if that makes me an 'entitled' one, the bloody good job and I am proud to be one.

 

Is there not a difference between the way that you are using the word and how some others use it? Is it a difference between being entitled to wanting and hoping Derby win every game and being entitled to expect Derby to win every game?

There is a big difference to those who come on and give out one-liners like "garbage, embarrassment, not fit to wear the shirt" and scuttle off and, might I suggest, posters like yourself, who actually give considered views and are not completely unable to see that we might lose the odd game for reasons other than being the worst group of players and coaching staff the world has ever seen.  I think the former winds people up a bit (and the implacability of their views as well).  

Dunno. Just a thought.

[Day]

21 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

It's not the word 'entitlement' it's a good word, one I have had no problem with in the past. I just think it is used incorrectly here, it's used in a derogatory way. I watched us play Villa yesterday and why would I not feel entitled to beat one of the poorest teams I have seen this season. Are we wrong wanting DCFC, our club, playing at a higher level, just being better. Or should we be derided for wanting that? Is that right? On what level, surely that is what sport is about.. We are Derby, people keep telling me we have some of the best facilities in the country, the best owner who ever lived, one of the best stadiums in the league. We are a Premier League club but not a team.. So people can't feel they want more for the team they support? 

No the word 'entitlement' has appeared over the last few weeks as a way of trying to belittle people. Moral high ground? Don't expect too much and you won't be disappointed? I don't know but I will never stop wanting my/our team to do better. No we have no Devine right to anything, but I don't think I have ever seen anyone say that.. So if that makes me an 'entitled' one, the bloody good job and I am proud to be one.

 

The E word be expect, expectations, that is fine, I expected us to go to Villa and come away with something given their recent form, on the Foolcast with Scott and Alex we spoke about the run of games coming up at home, Bristol City, Cardiff and Burton, we expected to pick up 3 wins, we didn't.

Thats football, we have to also expect the unexpected. We've been in the Championship long enough to realise it's not who spends the most wins.

There is a sense of entitlement creeping in though which arrived when Mel opened the chequebook, booing at half time if we're not winning, outrage at not beating Burton.

The money spent we should be expecting a real promotion push not a mid table finish but we're not entitled to it we have no devine right like you say, we have to earn it on the pitch which we haven't.

I do feel like the atmosphere on social media can get transferred on to this forum, the entitlement is real on Twitter, some of the comments are unbelievable and from personal experience I have ranted on here as 140 chars wasn't enough to let off steam. The next day I can imagine everyone thinking I wonder who's that aimed at, looking at each other with awkward glances. 

Same as being at the game, having to sit next to the vocal diarrhoea, get home and use this platform to rant at the fans.

[Angry Ram]

4 minutes ago, LazloW said:

Is there not a difference between the way that you are using the word and how some others use it? Is it a difference between being entitled to wanting and hoping Derby win every game and being entitled to expect Derby to win every game?

There is a big difference to those who come on and give out one-liners like "garbage, embarrassment, not fit to wear the shirt" and scuttle off and, might I suggest, posters like yourself, who actually give considered views and are not completely unable to see that we might lose the odd game for reasons other than being the worst group of players and coaching staff the world has ever seen.  I think the former winds people up a bit (and the implacability of their views as well).  

Dunno. Just a thought.

Yes mate, that is exactly my point. I do scoot over some threads and may have missed some things but are we really seeing those posts? Really? Hand on heart, when you read what some people post, it's often taken out of context.. 

I am sure there will be examples that some can find and those posters are not always worth responding to.  We have a debate and I would say 95% have fair points on both sides. The 'entitlement' tag seems to be getting stuck on people within that 95% unfairly and incorrectly for the reasons you have stated above.

[Angry Ram]

9 minutes ago, David said:

The E word be expect, expectations, that is fine, I expected us to go to Villa and come away with something given their recent form, on the Foolcast with Scott and Alex we spoke about the run of games coming up at home, Bristol City, Cardiff and Burton, we expected to pick up 3 wins, we didn't.

Thats football, we have to also expect the unexpected. We've been in the Championship long enough to realise it's not who spends the most wins.

There is a sense of entitlement creeping in though which arrived when Mel opened the chequebook, booing at half time if we're not winning, outrage at not beating Burton.

The money spent we should be expecting a real promotion push not a mid table finish but we're not entitled to it we have no devine right like you say, we have to earn it on the pitch which we haven't.

I do feel like the atmosphere on social media can get transferred on to this forum, the entitlement is real on Twitter, some of the comments are unbelievable and from personal experience I have ranted on here as 140 chars wasn't enough to let off steam. The next day I can imagine everyone thinking I wonder who's that aimed at, looking at each other with awkward glances. 

Same as being at the game, having to sit next to the vocal diarrhoea, get home and use this platform to rant at the fans.

Agreed my reply in essence what I just replied to Lazlo.. My point  is people with expectations are being labelled with the other 'E' word.

 

[1967Ram]

2 hours ago, curtains said:

6 points would be all the difference at this point and that's the big disappointment 

I agree with you Curtains, results since Xmas have been poor. Six more points could have made all the difference at this point too. I hoped we would make the play-offs this season under Mac. We still can but it's a 'very long shot' now.

Things can definitely get better and I hope they will under the current management set-up next season. I hope I'm right but I may well be wrong. One things for certain, it's a fine line between success and failure and only a few teams each season can be successful.

I hope we get back to a more settled team for the rest of the season and back to winning ASAP - starting Tuesday.

[1967Ram]

1 hour ago, curtains said:

That is just it we are all Derby fans and have alternative views .

 Saying we need to get rid of him and him and keep him and him is very disrespectful at the moment to players. 

Its ok to criticize one player but not another and all will be well next season because he is back and he will go etc  .

Truth is no one really knows  

Anyway up the Rams  

Got to go out now will post later .

 

Nice pint?

[toddy]

1 hour ago, David said:

Yeah we ran a poll, saw the feedback and didn't introduce it. My idea was that it would balance out those likes and offer an alternative way if disagreeing than some of the more short go away type posts.

Probably wasn't a great idea thinking more about it after.

You can always take away the like button - never understand why its there anyway as an agreeing poster can always write yep agreed etc etc.

I use other forums its only this one with a like button.

It might also stop some on here that seem to be 'clicky'. It might also encourage members that never seem to post much actually write something rather than just press the 'like' button.

Just an idea?

[Curtains]

15 minutes ago, 1967Ram said:

Nice pint?

Half lol . 

Argosy. 

[Day]

8 minutes ago, toddy said:

You can always take away the like button - never understand why its there anyway as an agreeing poster can always write yep agreed etc etc.

You say that but have liked 3 posts in this topic yourself today? Not knocking you, don't really understand them myself yet I use it, sometimes just as an acknowledgment I've read it so not to feel like I'm ignoring someone.

8 minutes ago, toddy said:

I use other forums its only this one with a like button.

It might also stop some on here that seem to be 'clicky'. It might also encourage members that never seem to post much actually write something rather than just press the 'like' button.

Just an idea?

When I ran the poll I'm sure it was an option which received little to no votes, all the popular forum software now includes it as standard, all the forums I use have them, you then have social media with Twitter, Facebook, Instagram all have likes. Guess it's just standard now, I honestly don't think it would change anything in regards to posts or cliques, most comments regarding them are tongue in cheek, not seen anyone seriously begging for likes 

[Curtains]

15 minutes ago, toddy said:

You can always take away the like button - never understand why its there anyway as an agreeing poster can always write yep agreed etc etc.

I use other forums its only this one with a like button.

It might also stop some on here that seem to be 'clicky'. It might also encourage members that never seem to post much actually write something rather than just press the 'like' button.

Just an idea?

Badge of honour with some posters. 

[Wolfie20]

3 hours ago, curtains said:

Seems to me that every time some question anything on this forum that is not the populist view of a few posters they get hammered.

I actually think the forum may be worse off for this in many ways as it stops people posting. 

Agreed - we need to have people with differing opinions otherwise forums such as this become a waste of time.

What really annoys many is when the same point is being made by the same poster ad nauseam - to the extent that the individual concerned is almost associated with a particular issue. You even get the feeling that in some perverse way, they are basking in their own notoriety. Sad - they need to get a life!

[RoyMac5]

 

So we aren't allowed to post if we're in agreement with the majority then?

[Warren Hobhead]

I apologise for my non-populist opinions on Russell and Butters being quality. 

[SWRam]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Well hopefully they won't bother renewing next season then.

How very open minded of you!

 

[Angry Ram]

25 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

 

So we aren't allowed to post if we're in agreement with the majority then?

Where the hell have you got that from.. Read the thread..

[angieram]

This has been an interesting read and most points have been covered. I like the 'like' button because it let's me 'like' the points that I have agreed with rather than wasting 6 or 7 posts saying 'I agree, but have nothing to add.'

There is a reason why popular opinions are liked more - it's because that's what the majority think. The mainstream view tends to be just that - somewhere in the middle. I don't think either the slash your wrists or happy clappers are the majority.

What I will say is that I tend to respect the views of the posters who can give me a reason for their views and that will also listen to and respect an alternative view. If someone disagrees with my view, I either answer them directly or back off and I don't feel the need to keep repeating my view back to them ad nauseam. That's my biggest bug-bear with some posters on here - I heard you the first time and you don't have to keep saying the same thing over and over again!

That leaves only two more things that I would question - the need for some posters to keep starting threads about basically the same thing - why? I think I have probably only started a new thread a handful of times in my two years' posting.

And secondly I really question the people who just come on here to vent. Someone brand new to the board last night posted over 40 times basically ranting about McClaren. When I first joined I didn’t post that many times in three months. 

In conclusion, I don't think that I am part of any clique but I do quite like that some of the longstanding posters have a bit of 'in the club' friendly banter between themselves. It's what makes the Board human. 

I'm sorry that I don't agree with you very often @curtains - we do have quite different views on what's good for Derby  - but I do reserve your right to have those opinions.  If you want a tip from me (and why would you? ) try posting more in other threads rather than trying to start new content all the time. Although with regards to this thread, good subject!

 

[angieram]

43 minutes ago, Warren Hobhead said:

I apologise for my non-populist opinions on Russell and Butters being quality. 

Actually, I agree with you about Butterfield, less so with Russell lately - although he did ok yesterday! 

[RoyMac5]

35 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Where the hell have you got that from.. Read the thread..

It was a joke. But the point of the thread was that alternate view is what we want - whether based on anything other than opion or not! So as an alternative view I wished to check that it was okay to agree with the non-alternate views!