Are we allowed an alternative view.

[Angry Ram]

Surly here, the workplace, the pub or your living room are the places to vent a question or two.. Why not..

I was at Villa yesterday in the top tier right at the back.. Had to listen to 3 yoofs bang on for 90 mins how this is crap, that is crap, he's rubbish, the whole 9 yards.. Could not understand why Ince got booked ffs.. Did my head in.. Okay, the players can't hear them but still not the time and place.. On here however, that maybe is the place.

What does pull my chain and I am sorry it does seem to be the happies who do it more, is the belittling derogatory comments used to try and beat someone down with an opposing view. 

[Curtains]

8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Should have been expected if we are as bad as people are saying?

This is the thing was it the fans view that Wassall should not have a had a chance this season  or was it Mel and Sam that decided .

Either way  Nigel Pearson came in to a fanfare and Wassall went back to the academy.

Now it is widely regarded that Pearson failed but was suspended and then  left by mutual consent.

In came McClaren again with differing opinions to its merit and that is where we are at  .

McClaren will be given next season unless Mel is wise IMO and brings in Rowett who I believe has already turned us down once allegedly 

I have stated I hope it works out for McClaren  

 

[Zag zig]

50 minutes ago, JaguarRam said:

You can have an alternative view and people can disagree. That's the point of a forum.

If more people disagree with you than agree with you then that is why you are "hammered"

Personally, I would give McClaren the whole of next season.. A knee jerk reaction after a few games will mean a different manager and different ideas and different signings again. Patience is the key.

Spot on with that.

Get sick of the knee jerks, that comes purely from a sense of entitlement. We are where we are, Steve needs a summer to shape a squad and even that won't be easy because he's going to struggle to shift players he might want to, simply because it not only is a likely huge writedown, but their wages will require a lot of compromises and that's not guaranteed.

A few people need to get real with their demands, we are not suddenly going to have a perfect squad, think it will take the full length of his contract to sort ourselves out. Mel needs to be more prudent, chequebook football doesn't always work, Villa are proof despite beating us yesterday.

So let's find a few Jordan Ibe's or Andre Wisdom's on loan if we need to strengthen, that will improve the squad but not break the bank. Build on a playing style of 433 or whatever, I'd just like to see some versatility when it's not working. We seem to predictable at times and other Managers seem to know how to play a Steve team, particularly if the component parts are not that cohesive at present.

It all needs time and as you say patience.

[Curtains]

3 minutes ago, Zag zig said:

Spot on with that.

Get sick of the knee jerks, that comes purely from a sense of entitlement. We are where we are, Steve needs a summer to shape a squad and even that won't be easy because he's going to struggle to shift players he might want to, simply because it not only is a likely huge writedown, but their wages will require a lot of compromises and that's not guaranteed.

A few people need to get real with their demands, we are not suddenly going to have a perfect squad, think it will take the full length of his contract to sort ourselves out. Mel needs to be more prudent, chequebook football doesn't always work, Villa are proof despite beating us yesterday.

So let's find a few Jordan Ibe's or Andre Wisdom's on loan if we need to strengthen, that will improve the squad but not break the bank. Build on a playing style of 433 or whatever, I'd just like to see some versatility when it's not working. We seem to predictable at times and other Managers seem to know how to play a Steve team, particularly if the component parts are not that cohesive at present.

It all needs time and as you say patience.

So what do you do with the players that McClaren doesn't want on long contracts.

Good luck with that Mack and are you strong enough to deal with it. 

My view is McClaren should try to work with the players he has now as he has stated.

 

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, curtains said:

This is the thing was it the fans view that Wassall should not have a had a chance this season  or was it Mel and Sam that decided .

Either way  Nigel Pearson came in to a fanfare and Wassall went back to the academy.

Now it is widely regarded that Pearson failed but was suspended and then  left by mutual consent.

In came McClaren again with differing opinions to its merit and that is where we are at  .

McClaren will be given next season unless Mel is wise IMO and brings in Rowett who I believe has already turned us down once allegedly 

I have stated I hope it works out for McClaren  

 

You're missing the point.

I'm not asking who people wanted appointed.

I am asking why Wassall was slated for not getting us promoted if the team is as poor as people are saying?

[RadioactiveWaste]

Of course people should be able to have an alternative view.

I disagreed with curtains quite strongly when Pearson left, but I never wanted him to stop posting.

People instinctively want to "win" or reach a consensus in discussion (the "hold everything, someone is wrong on the internet" effect I'm sure we've all felt at times),its not unnatural, as people have pointed out, it happens on other forums.

A bit of live and live from all sides. We are all Derby fans in the end and I don't question that everybody posting wants Derby to do well.

[Angry Ram]

12 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

2 completely opposite ends of the spectrum.

You would think that people who had to endure the 3 Amigos tenure would know better than to refer to our current situation as a crisis...

Yes, I agree, two opposite ends of the spectrum when you know the outcome.. BUT we did not always know what we know now with the Amigos. 

I also agree we are not in 'crisis' but we are at a cross roads and another bad decision now would be a disaster. I don't want SM sacked, I see not positives in that whatsoever. I am not a SM fan by any stretch but we can't keep changing direction. 

However people are posting some crazy stuff at the moment like it is FACT. New team next year, SM will clear everything out, Martin back, Mel will bankroll us millions, we're doomed, we won't ever win a game again, not fit to wear the shirt (okay poetic licence there, not actually heard that one yet) 

What I will defend is people right to say such things.. Curtains get stick but I have never seen him resort to petty belittling of posters. He defends himself well, digs himself a hole sometimes as well  but passionate Derby without a doubt.

[Curtains]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

You're missing the point.

I'm not asking who people wanted appointed.

I am asking why Wassall was slated for not getting us promoted if the team is as poor as people are saying?

Who was he slated by. 

Nobody listens to this forum do they 

[Zag zig]

10 minutes ago, curtains said:

So what do you do with the players that McClaren doesn't want on long contracts.

Good luck with that Mack and are you strong enough to deal with it. 

My view is McClaren should try to work with the players he has now as he has stated.

 

He will probably have little choice, we have a mish mash squad that doesn't totally fit his style, Vydra case in point it seems.

Going to be tough to shape them in a cohesive unit, that's why I'd advocate quality loans rather than big signings to balance it. Wisdom and Ibe improved us and as players whilst here, you could argue Lingaard too. Since he was soon starting for Man Utd shortly after. Big money doesn't guarantee success and sorry to rattle Angry Rams cage, but it does create the sense of entitlement!

Is he strong enough to deal with players he doesn't want? Don't know, remains to be seen.

[Curtains]

7 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Of course people should be able to have an alternative view.

I disagreed with curtains quite strongly when Pearson left, but I never wanted him to stop posting.

People instinctively want to "win" or reach a consensus in discussion (the "hold everything, someone is wrong on the internet" effect I'm sure we've all felt at times),its not unnatural, as people have pointed out, it happens on other forums.

A bit of live and live from all sides. We are all Derby fans in the end and I don't question that everybody posting wants Derby to do well.

That is just it we are all Derby fans and have alternative views .

 Saying we need to get rid of him and him and keep him and him is very disrespectful at the moment to players. 

Its ok to criticize one player but not another and all will be well next season because he is back and he will go etc  .

Truth is no one really knows  

Anyway up the Rams  

Got to go out now will post later .

 

[Day]

I touched on it the other day in a topic somewhere that as the site owner it's been playing on my mind that new members are not always made to feel welcome on the forum if they hold negative views, as menetioned earlier forums can become echo chambers over a period of time as the regular members get their feet under the virtual table and that's not the ultimate goal for this forum.

No angel myself, if I see something I consider to be ridiculous I can go at it like a dog with a bone without thinking, that's why I try not to stay on much after defeats and hope my well paid moderators are around to keep order. Never triggered the forum censorship towards another member, simply no need.

8 years online and watching this place grow it's hard not to notice the negative threads only appear within hours after a defeat, made out of anger, frustration and very rarely over a few lines long which I feel is why they get "hammered", especially after an away game before 6pm having spent the entire game moaning how **** we are on the forum.

I'm not knocking Radio Derby commentary, they do a great job but I couldn't base my entire opinions on a game having listened to radio commentary, we may have played well, been unlucky and I know Angry doesn't like this word but a sense of entitlement does exist. We don't handle defeat well at all, and when I say we I'm talking about football fans as this isn't unique to Derby.

A forum isn't about the software, like buttons, how pretty it looks, it's the members, it's down to us all to respect others views and discuss them in an adult way. We are all here for one reason, we love Derby County more than the fans that haven't bothered to sign up, this is a proven without source fact, we all have our own ideas of what success is and how to achieve it, no right answers to be found on here, just opinions.

Apologies if this sounds super positive, I do need the likes to catch up with Eddie still so 

[LeedsCityRam]

9 minutes ago, David said:

I touched on it the other day in a topic somewhere that as the site owner it's been playing on my mind that new members are not always made to feel welcome on the forum if they hold negative views, as menetioned earlier forums can become echo chambers over a period of time as the regular members get their feet under the virtual table and that's not the ultimate goal for this forum.

I read a few weeks ago about the option to have a 'dislike' button (like a lot of rival forums do) - for this reason alone, I think that would be a very bad idea for encouraging new posters & new thinking. Healthy debate/disagreement is great & like SillyBilly mentions (page 2), there are some posters who I think enjoy milking likes by being unduly positive & hence aggressively dismissive of any criticism of the club/performances. Its reading (well-articulated) contrarian views that keeps this place fresh

[RadioactiveWaste]

A pinned "Newbie" thread where people can get a welcome?

[Day]

13 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

I read a few weeks ago about the option to have a 'dislike' button (like a lot of rival forums do) - for this reason alone, I think that would be a very bad idea for encouraging new posters & new thinking. Healthy debate/disagreement is great & like SillyBilly mentions (page 2), there are some posters who I think enjoy milking likes by being unduly positive & hence aggressively dismissive of any criticism of the club/performances. Its reading (well-articulated) contrarian views that keeps this place fresh

Yeah we ran a poll, saw the feedback and didn't introduce it. My idea was that it would balance out those likes and offer an alternative way if disagreeing than some of the more short go away type posts.

Probably wasn't a great idea thinking more about it after.

[G STAR RAM]

48 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Yes, I agree, two opposite ends of the spectrum when you know the outcome.. BUT we did not always know what we know now with the Amigos. 

I also agree we are not in 'crisis' but we are at a cross roads and another bad decision now would be a disaster. I don't want SM sacked, I see not positives in that whatsoever. I am not a SM fan by any stretch but we can't keep changing direction. 

However people are posting some crazy stuff at the moment like it is FACT. New team next year, SM will clear everything out, Martin back, Mel will bankroll us millions, we're doomed, we won't ever win a game again, not fit to wear the shirt (okay poetic licence there, not actually heard that one yet) 

What I will defend is people right to say such things.. Curtains get stick but I have never seen him resort to petty belittling of posters. He defends himself well, digs himself a hole sometimes as well  but passionate Derby without a doubt.

And I will happily listen to negative views as long as they are constructive.

Believe it or not I did not want Pearson sacked and said as much at the time. It really just left us in the middle of nowhere.

Mac gave the fans false belief hence the melodramatic reactions now.

I don't want him sacked but actually don't think it would have any effect on anything because he has done very little to the mish mash he inherited.

[Anon]

I don't think people should be allowed an opposing view and, as such, this thread's very existence hurts my feelings. I demand it be deleted and shoved down the memory hole.

[G STAR RAM]

56 minutes ago, curtains said:

Who was he slated by. 

Nobody listens to this forum do they 

Oh dear

[King Kevin]

I like SM ish ,I think he is a great coach but is flawed by over familiarity with players and not a strong enough character .I do believe that SM will have to do the job that NP started out to do albeit in the wrong way .

Perhaps we have had continuity ie three managers later the players are running the club who knows ?.The biggest danger as I see it is the absolute need for good recruitment both in and out in the close season.

We may not be in a crisis but could very well soon be.I do see gates slipping and season ticket renewals down unless the fans we something positive .

Having said that I will still see more games than I miss.

[Angry Ram]

29 minutes ago, David said:

 

I'm not knocking Radio Derby commentary, they do a great job but I couldn't base my entire opinions on a game having listened to radio commentary, we may have played well, been unlucky and I know Angry doesn't like this word but a sense of entitlement does exist. We don't handle defeat well at all, and when I say we I'm talking about football fans as this isn't unique to Derby.

 

It's not the word 'entitlement' it's a good word, one I have had no problem with in the past. I just think it is used incorrectly here, it's used in a derogatory way. I watched us play Villa yesterday and why would I not feel entitled to beat one of the poorest teams I have seen this season. Are we wrong wanting DCFC, our club, playing at a higher level, just being better. Or should we be derided for wanting that? Is that right? On what level, surely that is what sport is about.. We are Derby, people keep telling me we have some of the best facilities in the country, the best owner who ever lived, one of the best stadiums in the league. We are a Premier League club but not a team.. So people can't feel they want more for the team they support? 

No the word 'entitlement' has appeared over the last few weeks as a way of trying to belittle people. Moral high ground? Don't expect too much and you won't be disappointed? I don't know but I will never stop wanting my/our team to do better. No we have no Devine right to anything, but I don't think I have ever seen anyone say that.. So if that makes me an 'entitled' one, the bloody good job and I am proud to be one.

 

[Angry Ram]

15 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

A pinned "Newbie" thread where people can get a welcome?

There is one in the Pub.