Didn't want McClaren back and still don't want him

[TheresOnlyWanChope]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

Will Steve be able to attract the new talent we need, will he know what we need? Time will tell I suppose. Still cant quite bring myself to sing S****vie M*cs barmy army though

I think Derby will remain a very attractive club for a lot of quality players who would be keen on championship football. Even if we only finish mid table this season, we can still offer generous wages, football at a fantastic stadium with a large fan base plus top level training facilities. 

On the other hand, how many years can Mel Morris invest into the club where there is not massive financial rewards. I would imagine the high wage bill and running costs of the club would take its toll if we don't achieve Premier League football in the near future. The Infrastructure is there though and I think the academy will start producing some good quality players in the coming years which will help with the quality of the playing squad or balance sheet if we decide to sell them on. 

[Ninos]

3 hours ago, Angry Ram said:

Now I am worried.. 

Just what did @Boyciewant in return? 

I would not say Rynny and Alpha get the better of you.. I would not rise to every point though, pick your battles. We've got yer back bruv.

Oo @Angry Ram getting all strategic-like! I find that very very very sexy. Mmmmm  

That's Unlike Mac who has the strategy of a bungee jumper lol (Relevance curtains topic creation point)

[Comrade 86]

17 hours ago, curtains said:

I'm public enemy number 1 on here mate .

Nah mate - far from it.

[Curtains]

7 minutes ago, 86 points said:

Nah mate - far from it.

You could take my place as holding midfielder lol I'm a bit unsure if I could last the pace . 

Sorry wrong thread 

[Ninos]

1 hour ago, Angry Ram said:

This bit is spot on, it will get tougher without a doubt. Makes me even more frustrated about what we have done over the last 2 years.. Missed opportunities. Headless chickens?

We have to stick with SM now, no choice. I was not happy about him coming back but I would be equally unhappy about chopping and changing managers. That is no solution. The saving grace for Steve is that sometimes it just works, you fit with a club. Hughes at QPR the ultimate anti-christ.. Worse manager ever in the history of managers.. Goes to Stoke and does a good job.. I seriously believe it is a lottery and just luck sometimes. You look at Pearsons CV and why not give him a chance if that is the direction we want to go. I question the logic of the direction but he should not have been the failure he was.. Our problem was we did not know what we wanted. I liked the Clement appointment, still do.. I was not sure about Pearson as he was such a seed change from the direction I thought we wanted to go in.. No way was he every going to take what Mac had the first time and move it on.. Clem should have, Wassell was just weird, knee jerk give a job to a mate and when he struggles bring another more experienced mate in.

My god we have made some poor choices in the last two years..

Will Steve be able to attract the new talent we need, will he know what we need? Time will tell I suppose. Still cant quite bring myself to sing S****vie M*cs barmy army though

 

 

I sing it but I cringe when I do. 

But honestly I think he will attract players who want a fat paycheck. Players don't seem to develop under mcclaren and he doesn't offer much in terms of teaching new systems or styles of play. The club itself seems to have shyed away from the Derby Way idea or any overall strategy. So it's money that would bring someone. That's my take from what I see. 

Mcclaren - as a reaction to Pearson - is trying to reconstruct the team that got to wembley - all this while the game has moved on. Derby fans won't think outside the box and we meekly crave the modicum of success he brought just because of the disastrous subsequent developments. 

Reality is we need a technical director ala Rangnick at RB Leipzig who will have a strategic and tactical vision to acquire players and a manager that can adhere to the successful formula that Mel is after. Otherwise we will just keep flapping about in this league shedding manager after manager and buying random players who don't fit the overall picture.

id be more ecstatic to have Mel go spend a month learning what a Rangnick (or another visionary) has done because then I think he'd know what has to be done to get to where he wants to go - we need a strong vision and we need to stick to it in every macro and micro decision that's made.

[TheDeadlySaul]

1 minute ago, Ninos said:

I sing it but I cringe when I do. 

But honestly I think he will attract players who want a fat paycheck. Players don't seem to develop under mcclaren and he doesn't offer much in terms of teaching new systems or styles of play. The club itself seems to have shyed away from the Derby Way idea or any overall strategy. So it's money that would bring someone. That's my take from what I see. 

Mcclaren - as a reaction to Pearson - is trying to reconstruct the team that got to wembley - all this while the game has moved on. Derby fans won't think outside the box and we meekly crave the modicum of success he brought just because of the disastrous subsequent developments. 

Reality is we need a technical director ala Rangnick at RB Leipzig who will have a strategic and tactical vision to acquire players and a manager that can adhere to the successful formula that Mel is after. Otherwise we will just keep flapping about in this league shedding manager after manager and buying random players who don't fit the overall picture.

id be more ecstatic to have Mel go spend a month learning what a Rangnick (or another visionary) has done because then I think he'd know what has to be done to get to where he wants to go - we need a strong vision and we need to stick to it in every macro and micro decision that's made.

What do you mean players don't develop under McClaren? In his first spell some our player were playing their best football in their career. Martin, Thorne, Hendrick, Ward, Russell, Ibe, Ince etc had all improved when the Mac came.

[Purpleram]

Whatever the merits or otherwise of McClaren, whatever his win stats are it still looks like we will ultimately fail again. Yes we had a rubbish start but the last two results but plenty before that once the run has finished have been pants.

I just don't think he has got what it takes, slightly coloured by how he left us last time, but mainly as I don't see him as a winner, he's always a close but no cigar man, the bridesmaid but not the bride.

 

 

[mrdave85]

2 minutes ago, Ninos said:

 

Mcclaren - as a reaction to Pearson - is trying to reconstruct the team that got to wembley - all this while the game has moved on. Derby fans won't think outside the box and we meekly crave the modicum of success he brought just because of the disastrous subsequent developments. 

 

I don't think the game has moved on. I think he's trying to replicate the style of play which bought us to the play-off final, and competing for the play offs the season after. I don't see anything wrong with that. He has come in part way through a season for the second time and improved us. Clement also had us competing and for his faults I believe he could have been successful with us. 

Leipzig is a strange example, though? Haven't they spent about £70m over the last two seasons bringing in about 18 players? That to me seems to be what Villa attempted but with more success 

[Ninos]

2 minutes ago, TheDeadlySaul said:

What do you mean players don't develop under McClaren? In his first spell some our player were playing their best football in their career. Martin, Thorne, Hendrick, Ward, Russell, Ibe, Ince etc had all improved when the Mac came.

I see your point but I'm thinking of a different standard with this and we can debate this respectfully until the cows come home but the true test is to ask the players. What have you learned? How have you improved? What has the manager done to raise your game? For the record, I think Pearson was awful on this front. 

examples: I see one of my favourite players - Keogh - who can still use only one foot and who has not learned to play in a back three or any other system or with any other style. And yet he could have been really developed. The players don't speak to it much either in interviews.  (Ie wed be hearing how much they're learning or developing) I do see that Carson is being encouraged to be a mini sweeper keeper (and has spoken to the fact that mac is encouraging that) so I see something there from Mac but it's like a Mickey Mouse version of what it's supposed to look like. And yes Ince has improved and talks of it but it appears not to be from some sort of overall style or system change but just license to express.

[Angry Ram]

44 minutes ago, Davide said:

I think Derby will remain a very attractive club for a lot of quality players who would be keen on championship football. Even if we only finish mid table this season, we can still offer generous wages, football at a fantastic stadium with a large fan base plus top level training facilities. 

On the other hand, how many years can Mel Morris invest into the club where there is not massive financial rewards. I would imagine the high wage bill and running costs of the club would take its toll if we don't achieve Premier League football in the near future. The Infrastructure is there though and I think the academy will start producing some good quality players in the coming years which will help with the quality of the playing squad or balance sheet if we decide to sell them on. 

I hope so mate.. 

[mrdave85]

7 minutes ago, Purpleram said:

Whatever the merits or otherwise of McClaren, whatever his win stats are it still looks like we will ultimately fail again. Yes we had a rubbish start but the last two results but plenty before that once the run has finished have been pants.

I just don't think he has got what it takes, slightly coloured by how he left us last time, but mainly as I don't see him as a winner, he's always a close but no cigar man, the bridesmaid but not the bride.

 

 

He was sacked by us last time, and has previously won the Dutch league and the league cup with Boro, close but no cigar 

 

[Ninos]

2 minutes ago, mrdave85 said:

I don't think the game has moved on. I think he's trying to replicate the style of play which bought us to the play-off final, and competing for the play offs the season after. I don't see anything wrong with that. He has come in part way through a season for the second time and improved us. Clement also had us competing and for his faults I believe he could have been successful with us. 

Leipzig is a strange example, though? Haven't they spent about £70m over the last two seasons bringing in about 18 players? That to me seems to be what Villa attempted but with more success 

You're minimising what they've done which isn't just built on money it's built in a specific footballing vision - one that is the most exciting, attacking, entertaining and ultimately fruitful style. And take a look at the 18 players - they all fit a certain set of criteria. 

Mel gets this at some level because it's what he was trying to do at first but we took a crazy detour. If you have something in place the manager becomes secondary. 

[TheDeadlySaul]

2 minutes ago, Ninos said:

I see your point but I'm thinking of a different standard with this and we can debate this respectfully until the cows come home but the true test is to ask the players. What have you learned? How have you improved? What has the manager done to raise your game? For the record, I think Pearson was awful on this front. 

examples: I see one of my favourite players - Keogh - who can still use only one foot and who has not learned to play in a back three or any other system or with any other style. And yet he could have been really developed. The players don't speak to it much either in interviews.  (Ie wed be hearing how much they're learning or developing) I do see that Carson is being encouraged to be a mini sweeper keeper (and has spoken to the fact that mac is encouraging that) so I see something there from Mac but it's like a Mickey Mouse version of what it's supposed to look like. And yes Ince has improved and talks of it but it appears not to be from some sort of overall style or system change but just license to express.

The players always say in interviews that they play better under McClaren and I remember Morris saying in an interview that a player went up to him saying that McClaren was the best coach he worked under and his work on the training field where he focuses on you as an individual and on the team was fantastic. 

[mrdave85]

Just now, Ninos said:

You're minimising what they've done which isn't just built on money it's built in a specific footballing vision - one that is the most exciting, attacking, entertaining and ultimately fruitful style. And take a look at the 18 players - they all fit a certain set of criteria. 

Mel gets this at some level because it's what he was trying to do at first but we took a crazy detour. If you have something in place the manager becomes secondary. 

Yeah I probably am, I honestly haven't seen much of them but I know they're pushing Bayern all the way. 

I was under the impression Mel started this (and I hate myself for it) Derby Way on the back of seeing what McClaren had us playing like? I really hope McClaren will be the first to help build something akin to this structure you've used Leipzig to portray, and we go on and on from there. The hassle over expanding the training ground to me shows Mel has some kind of vision.

[Alph]

He's got the highest win percentage of any manager in our history that's managed more than 10 games! 

[G STAR RAM]

18 hours ago, curtains said:

I'm public enemy number 1 on here mate .

Good post by you though. 

Dont defend me though mate or you will have very few friends as my opinions are always hammered on here except for a few people like Angry and Ninos etc. 

You're not public enemy number one at all.

I have absolutely no problem with your views, more the fact that you don't stick to your views and change your mind more often than I change my pants. 

Added to that you never seem willing to debate your views, you either start saying irrelevant things and go off on a tangent, or say that you are being picked on.

If you hate McClaren fine, don't be making threads saying how great we are though only to return to your original stance every time we lose a match.

[Ninos]

1 minute ago, mrdave85 said:

Yeah I probably am, I honestly haven't seen much of them but I know they're pushing Bayern all the way. 

I was under the impression Mel started this (and I hate myself for it) Derby Way on the back of seeing what McClaren had us playing like? I really hope McClaren will be the first to help build something akin to this structure you've used Leipzig to portray, and we go on and on from there. The hassle over expanding the training ground to me shows Mel has some kind of vision.

Right. It wasn't an accident that when we were only carefully getting younger players (that's a Rangnick thing too) and sticking with a Derby Way and where Mac was just the head coach - that we were winning and we were entertaining. Players followed a vision. I don't personally think it was a brilliant vision but at least it was a  footballing vision where our player acquisitions - Christie Thorne etc -matched it. They understood the collective so we did fairly well. Perhaps Wembley served to unravel the plan - but right now we are miles off that plan and we have a bloated squad of misfits. We need a u turn of direction. 

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, mrdave85 said:

I really hope McClaren will be the first to help build something akin to this structure you've used Leipzig to portray, and we go on and on from there. The hassle over expanding the training ground to me shows Mel has some kind of vision.

Yeah there'll be nothing but fun being the new Millwall! As I understand it RB base there playing philosophy around buying young, hungry players?

[Ninos]

1 minute ago, G STAR RAM said:

You're not public enemy number one at all.

I have absolutely no problem with your views, more the fact that you don't stick to your views and change your mind more often than I change my pants. 

Added to that you never seem willing to debate your views, you either start saying irrelevant things and go off on a tangent, or say that you are being picked on.

If you hate McClaren fine, don't be making threads saying how great we are though only to return to your original stance every time we lose a match.

Damn You must have a lot of pants G Star. That's a bit weird to be fair as I thought all you wore was ... G Star?

[Purpleram]

14 minutes ago, mrdave85 said:

He was sacked by us last time, and has previously won the Dutch league and the league cup with Boro, close but no cigar 

 

Sacked for chasing the Newcastle job, which he has since apologised for, and fair play for the Twentie success but left them in the lurch for a bigger Job which he failed at returned and got sacked, and he spent a decade at Boro spent an absolute fortune and won a cup no-one of the big boys care much about.

Not even close to a success on reflection.