Guest Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 18 minutes ago, mrdave85 said: He was sacked by us last time, and has previously won the Dutch league and the league cup with Boro, close but no cigar Could add that he was also sacked by Wolfsburg and Forest and resigned from his second time at Twente after poor performances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdave85 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, Purpleram said: Sacked for chasing the Newcastle job, which he has since apologised for, and fair play for the Twentie success but left them in the lurch for a bigger Job which he failed at returned and got sacked, and he spent a decade at Boro spent an absolute fortune and won a cup no-one of the big boys care much about. Not even close to a success on reflection. What do you class as success? Who would you have takeover if McClaren was to walk away today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Not that it matters but he's Boro's most successful manager ever isn't he? I'm interested to know which managers we've had that have been good enough for the world conquering Derby County. I think you'll find Mac compares to most of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purpleram Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, mrdave85 said: What do you class as success? Who would you have takeover if McClaren was to walk away today? Promotion, and then maybe after a yo-yo or two a Stoke like permanence in the Prem. Rowett? Warburton? Wagner? Someone I've never heard of? but not someone with a long record of mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdave85 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, Purpleram said: Promotion, and then maybe after a yo-yo or two a Stoke like permanence in the Prem. Rowett? Warburton? Wagner? Someone I've never heard of? but not someone with a long record of mediocrity. So, if we were to be relegated you'd not want the manager sacked for being a failure? If you class yo-yoing between leagues as success over an actual title or cup win that's fair enough, but that sounds like mediocrity to me. Warburton is as mediocre as McClaren, a play off win and two Scottish cups? On par with McClaren's honours for me. Rowett, I'm a fan of, but hasn't done anything, would be a gamble like Clement (who I was also a fan of). Wagner I'd be intrigued by. My pick if McClaren was to go, would be Chris Hughton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purpleram Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 1 minute ago, mrdave85 said: So, if we were to be relegated you'd not want the manager sacked for being a failure? If you class yo-yoing between leagues as success over an actual title or cup win that's fair enough, but that sounds like mediocrity to me. Warburton is as mediocre as McClaren, a play off win and two Scottish cups? On par with McClaren's honours for me. Rowett, I'm a fan of, but hasn't done anything, would be a gamble like Clement (who I was also a fan of). Wagner I'd be intrigued by. My pick if McClaren was to go, would be Chris Hughton. The Yo-Yo thing is to reflect the gulf between where we are now and what we would need to hit that standard. Not too many of the squad are at that level IMO. Cups may come once we are established. I agree the names I've mentioned have not had much success but offer potential, where again IMO Mac is yesterdays man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 13 minutes ago, mrdave85 said: So, if we were to be relegated you'd not want the manager sacked for being a failure? It's not as black and white (excuse the pun) as that. If we got relegated after making a fight of it and generally seeing the embryo's of a successful team, then no I doubt people would want him sacked. Burnley a good example. If we were absolute pants ala Jewell then of course... Gut the geezer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 11 minutes ago, Purpleram said: The Yo-Yo thing is to reflect the gulf between where we are now and what we would need to hit that standard. Not too many of the squad are at that level IMO. Cups may come once we are established. I agree the names I've mentioned have not had much success but offer potential, where again IMO Mac is yesterdays man. He just pulled us out the arse end of the league. Where a supposedly proven manager had us buried and the lowest scorers in England. Nobody talked about play offs when he came in. And last time he came in they seemed a bit of a reach too. He holds our record for points in a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tombo Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 He came in when we were dire. 3 goals in 9 games. Just drink that in for a second. How unfathomably bad that is. Pearson would have had us relegated. I said when Mac came back his only job for me was keep us away from the bottom 3. As long as he continues to do that, he gets my full backing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdave85 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, Angry Ram said: It's not as black and white (excuse the pun) as that. If we got relegated after making a fight of it and generally seeing the embryo's of a successful team, then no I doubt people would want him sacked. Burnley a good example. If we were absolute pants ala Jewell then of course... Gut the geezer. I agree entirely, but could it be argued that we made a fight of it out of the last two games? I'm not saying either result was acceptable but there were signs of life in both displays. If losing our first home league game since Sept leads to the reactions of some fans wanting a change, how would they take being relegated? Your point raised in other topics (or this one, I'm not sure anymore ) about Mel being the one to hold his nerve is the most important for me, if he believes Mac is the one will he stick with him through any rough patches like this? I believe it will take us being promoted and maybe more before another club comes sniffing for him so that Newcastle episode shouldn't happen again. I think McClaren is a step in the right direction for us, based off where he left us, and it was disheartening to see us fade away and lose to Reading, but he showed the play-off final season wasn't a fluke and we can compete at the right end of the table. Clement looked capable but lord knows why he was really sacked, and Pearson was as far away from what MM was trying to build as he could get. If SMC gets all of this and next season and we're in and around the play offs, I'll personally be happy. When SMC goes I think Rowett might be a good successor, but IMO needs some more experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purpleram Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Alpha said: He just pulled us out the arse end of the league. Where a supposedly proven manager had us buried and the lowest scorers in England. Nobody talked about play offs when he came in. And last time he came in they seemed a bit of a reach too. He holds our record for points in a season. Not a popular opinion but Pearson wasn't given a fair crack of the whip, he recognised as do some others the playing squad needs a shake up if we are going to get out of this perennial nearly men cycle. Again with all this talk of records, it doesn't mean anything if the teams above you are bettering it, it just means the teams below you aren't much cop. Just my opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdave85 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, Purpleram said: Not a popular opinion but Pearson wasn't given a fair crack of the whip, he recognised as do some others the playing squad needs a shake up if we are going to get out of this perennial nearly men cycle. Again with all this talk of records, it doesn't mean anything if the teams above you are bettering it, it just means the teams below you aren't much cop. Just my opinion? I admit I was cautiously optimistic about Pearson, his Leicester side in the championship always looked good to me. I don't know what he did or did not do to be suspended like he was. It does seem like he wasn't given a fair crack of the whip in that situation, but I imagine he would have been told Promotion was the game, and he had us looking like relegation fodder with no end in sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Purpleram said: Not a popular opinion but Pearson wasn't given a fair crack of the whip, he recognised as do some others the playing squad needs a shake up if we are going to get out of this perennial nearly men cycle. Again with all this talk of records, it doesn't mean anything if the teams above you are bettering it, it just means the teams below you aren't much cop. Just my opinion? One positive from Pearson's entire time? The football? Signings? No goals? Didn't play well against Grimsby or Carlisle. No wins at home. Beaten without troubling Burton, loaned out (not even sold!!) Our top scorer of 3 seasons. Guarantee if we were in the PL there would be teams above bettering it. For the last 40+ years there's been teams bettering us. Usually about 20-30 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, mrdave85 said: I agree entirely, but could it be argued that we made a fight of it out of the last two games? I'm not saying either result was acceptable but there were signs of life in both displays. If losing our first home league game since Sept leads to the reactions of some fans wanting a change, how would they take being relegated? Your point raised in other topics (or this one, I'm not sure anymore ) about Mel being the one to hold his nerve is the most important for me, if he believes Mac is the one will he stick with him through any rough patches like this? I believe it will take us being promoted and maybe more before another club comes sniffing for him so that Newcastle episode shouldn't happen again. I think McClaren is a step in the right direction for us, based off where he left us, and it was disheartening to see us fade away and lose to Reading, but he showed the play-off final season wasn't a fluke and we can compete at the right end of the table. Clement looked capable but lord knows why he was really sacked, and Pearson was as far away from what MM was trying to build as he could get. If SMC gets all of this and next season and we're in and around the play offs, I'll personally be happy. When SMC goes I think Rowett might be a good successor, but IMO needs some more experience. Shsss don't tell anyone but I have not actually spat the proverbial @Alpha dummy out over the last two fixtures. I know what we are and where we are. I don't actually expect too much only that the team gives 100% week in, week out and that we play our best 11 in order to give ourselves the best chance of winning that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, Purpleram said: Not a popular opinion but Pearson wasn't given a fair crack of the whip, he recognised as do some others the playing squad needs a shake up if we are going to get out of this perennial nearly men cycle. While that may be true, I don't think I'd have wanted to see the squad results of his shake-up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purpleram Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: While that may be true, I don't think I'd have wanted to see the squad results of his shake-up! Leicester didn't shake up too bad, couldn't you look at that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 21 minutes ago, Purpleram said: Leicester didn't shake up too bad, couldn't you look at that one? But Pearson didn't do the good stuff did he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purpleram Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 12 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: But Pearson didn't do the good stuff did he? Got them promoted, kept them up with a storming finish to the League. Mostly his team that won the League, deserves at least some of the credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 You should have a look at Pearson's storming finish. It's not that great. Look at the opponents. Also it's nothing to do with Derby. How many managers have done a good job somewhere and followed it with a bad one and the other way around. This is what was crazy about the whole Pearson tenure. "But at Leicester.." Ranieri won the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purpleram Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 27 minutes ago, Alpha said: You should have a look at Pearson's storming finish. It's not that great. Look at the opponents. Also it's nothing to do with Derby. How many managers have done a good job somewhere and followed it with a bad one and the other way around. This is what was crazy about the whole Pearson tenure. "But at Leicester.." Ranieri won the league. Not sure I follow, he got them promoted with the best team I think I have seen in the Championship, kept them up. Yes Ranieri won the League but Pearson played a part in that success, or are we to diminish them winning the League based on this seasons performance? it's moot in any case as we will never know what would have happened if he had stayed. I hoped Mac would work, even though I didn't want him back, I fear he won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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