PistoldPete2 Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 13 minutes ago, Tony Le Mesmer said: Agree. Pinning our hopes for the rest of the season on whether we bring Martin back or not is seriously crackers. That said though, all our attackers are nifty types and they're all the same really if you take out Bent. It's clear we need an alternative type of player up there but not sure Martin would be that player anymore. Truth is this season is a write off. So whether we get martin back or not in January ( unlikely I would guess for contractual reasons) we are not going to do anything this season we've left ourselves with far too much to do and far too many problems all round the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopRam Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 What a waste of money!! Great day awful performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Ram Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 I would happily have hendrick, martin and even Dawkins back. We urgently need Thorne back. I can see us struggling until January with this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 2 minutes ago, Tony Le Mesmer said: Agree but meant that Bent is more of a hold up, ball to feet or I don't want to know, bigger, better header of the ball type player and slightly different to the others we have. Yes, he's nowhere near good enough now for a club the size of Derby (without wanting to sound all BBB) but its true IMO. Poor option to have on the bench. Better Martin than Bent if you're wanting that type of playr though, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 16 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: Ffs... Selective memory there.. We obviously never struggled with Martin then before. Anyway, answer the question that I put. Construct an arguement and I will listen. I answered your question earlier on. Care to respond? Be happy to hear why you disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 16 minutes ago, PodgeyRam said: The chief argument has been that we as a team are not creating enough. Vydra is a fine player I'm sure, but he simply doesn't contribute to team play as much as Martin. He would bring link up play, allowing our creative midfield players and wide forwards to do what they are best at - get in and around the box. The likes of Hughes, Bryson and Butterfield would be able to play those short passes and move on, safe in the knowledge that the ball was either going to a teammate or at the very least not just coming back at the oppositions feet. This helps not just Martin get into better goalscoring positions, but the rest of the team as well. He would be a great help defensively from set pieces - even though we are pretty solid defensivey this season. I know I keep saying it, and others have said it too, but why oh why did Pearson not give Martin and Vydra a chance togther. Todays game sounded very much like what a lot of Derby games without Martin were like under McClaren, 100 mph with both teams losing the ball often. If this was 2013/14 season, you would be correct.. But he never reached those heights afterwards. I just fail to see why people think that bringing him back all of a sudden makes us that team again. It's now 2016!! We have a team that does not really create too much from midfield, it's too slow, all Martin would do is get the hump after 10 mins and destroy the team moral. He ain't pulling up no trees at Fulham. I know a few Fulham supporters as I live in West London and they are really frustrated with him.. He does not have the character to get this team out of the mire on his own.. He needs supply just like any other striker and he won't get it with this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 13 minutes ago, cannable said: The team is broken. Pearson and Clement have broken it. The squad is a mess. It wasn't built to withstand pressure, it was built to dominate the game. It can't do that anymore because of our amateur transfer dealings in the last three windows. Under Clough, McClaren and Wassall we always looked like conceding when on the back foot. The squad just isn't suited to any particular style. McClaren literally has to build the team again. Blaming the players is pointless - it's nothing to do with them not caring or being cowards, we are fundamentally broken. Don't be so sensible and obvious. Where's the conspiracy and cliques, the laziness and uselessness! Call yourself a fan? #COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarRam Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Not all bad. Give McClaren time and we will get better. Full confidence that this will turn out right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 3 minutes ago, PodgeyRam said: I answered your question earlier on. Care to respond? Be happy to hear why you disagree. Apologies Podgey... Thought I was replying to RayMac.. At least you did construct an argument.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 It's all good, we've got heating in the concourses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 2 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: Apologies Podgey... Thought I was replying to RayMac.. At least you did construct an argument.. I can't say anything that will convince you that Martin isn't past it, so I'm not bothering. I don't want arguments, I want reasoned discussion, not gonna bet that from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Just now, Angry Ram said: If this was 2013/14 season, you would be correct.. But he never reached those heights afterwards. I just fail to see why people think that bringing him back all of a sudden makes us that team again. It's now 2016!! We have a team that does not really create too much from midfield, it's too slow, all Martin would do is get the hump after 10 mins and destroy the team moral. He ain't pulling up no trees at Fulham. I know a few Fulham supporters as I live in West London and they are really frustrated with him.. He does not have the character to get this team out of the mire on his own.. He needs supply just like any other striker and he won't get it with this team. Just seen your response. Please disregard my earlier post to you. You seem to think that Martin's moaning on the pitch destroys team morale. Have you got any proof of that? Any players told you that they hate it when he does that? Ibrahimovic moans on the pitch all the time, I doubt it destroys the morale of his teammates. He's bedding in to a new team, learning their style of play. Of course he's going to struggle initially. However, he's beginning to improve for them as seen by the two goals he scored last week. You say that, but when we were tumbling down the league two seasons ago under McClaren he came back, at about 30% fitness and nearly dragged us kicking and screaming into the playoffs. Until he got injured again. Your right he does need supply. I think he would get it in this team, a team that is set up to play to his strengths.Just like Vydra got service seasons ago for Watford - a team that was set up to play to his strengths. It isn't inconceivable that the two of them playing in the same team could mean they form a good partnership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth's left foot Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 SM said that he was delighted with the first half performance, it didn't sound that good and plenty of you who went don't seem delighted. Had to laugh when Keogh said that his injury is a nerve problem... there's quite a few with that issue! How long before we hear that these million pound+ players are suffering from a lack of confidence?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61GT Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 25 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: Wassall and Pearson the same standard (by and large)? We scored more in one game under Wassall (Hull) than we managed in nine under Nigel Pearson. We scored 26 goals in 16 league matches under Wassall, roughly 1.625 per game or 75 over a 46-game season. That's more than what any team in the league managed last season. So... What are you talking about? Pearson coached all the footballing ability right out of the players. Oh, and he let our top scorer and one of the league's most creative forwards in Chris Martin leave on a season-long loan... And some fans were happy about this. McClaren needs more than a week to undo Pearson's frankly woeful work here. Jesus... Whilst my use of the word "Standard" was poor I don't understand how a manager can coach all the footballing ability out of players in less than a dozen competitive games. Poor selections, formations, tactics, etc yes but not ability. Do you think the core of the squad we've got currently is still good enough to be pushing for the play-offs given the right coaching? Genuinely hope I'm proven wrong but I have to admit I'm not convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Just now, Seth's left foot said: SM said that he was delighted with the first half performance, it didn't sound that good and plenty of you who went don't seem delighted. Have seen posts suggesting we were as good/better than them 1st half - what do you want him to say. Oh yeah do a Pearson and rant and rave and tell them they're useless, that should do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Tell you what, some of you lot must get upset a lot if you think Martin moaning effects morale. Jesus, I've played with some right knob heads. And when they moaned on the pitch I told them to fook off. Did it break the team bond?!! Did it ruin the chemistry??! Was there dressing room bust ups??! No. Because we're not as soft as mash potato. Grown men ffs. Has everyone forgot what it's like playing football. There's swearing and arguing and even rude jokes!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 Just now, Alpha said: No. Because we're not as soft as mash potato. Grown men ffs. Has everyone forgot what it's like playing football. There's swearing and arguing and even rude jokes!! Bet our lot don't know any jokes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth's left foot Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said: Have seen posts suggesting we were as good/better than them 1st half - what do you want him to say. Oh yeah do a Pearson and rant and rave and tell them they're useless, that should do it! I love how many posters on here only deal with extremes, delighted is a very positive word to describe that first half and at no point did I disagree. I am in the pro SM camp so I trust his judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 3 minutes ago, 61GT said: Whilst my use of the word "Standard" was poor I don't understand how a manager can coach all the footballing ability out of players in less than a dozen competitive games. Poor selections, formations, tactics, etc yes but not ability. Do you think the core of the squad we've got currently is still good enough to be pushing for the play-offs given the right coaching? Genuinely hope I'm proven wrong but I have to admit I'm not convinced. Without Chris Martin this side doesn't have the tools to make the playoffs. We desperately lack a link-up centre-forward, as without one we're relying on players who aren't exactly renowned for their creative abilities to suddenly create chances. If we can't create chances via passing out from the back, the next best option is to win the ball high up the pitch via high-pressing, but Pearson soon coached that out of the players as he prefered to sit deep and counter. Our problems all stem back to recruitment. It really hampered us and left us with such an unbalanced squad full of high-earners on relatively long contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 22, 2016 Share Posted October 22, 2016 1 minute ago, Seth's left foot said: I love how many posters on here only deal with extremes, delighted is a very positive word to describe that first half and at no point did I disagree. I am in the pro SM camp so I trust his judgment. What was your point then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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