NottsRam77 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 3 minutes ago, reveldevil said: You have to admit though, the thought of Vydra getting in and amongst Chris Martins lay offs is a tasty prospect? No, it's not tasty it's potentially mouth watering lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robglosta Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Wilson might now flourish under Mac, as did Ibe, Lingaard, Wisdom et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottsRam77 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, philmycock said: Isn't Bradley in the DM hot seat after impressing CP in the last 2 games? new manger, new perspective but he is and fair play to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 5 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: Again can't argue with any of that really, it's obviously difficult for anyone to tell how mcclaren will fit all the new players in his system- one thing I will say though is I think I'll cry if Russell is in the team, vastly overrated imo and very rarely except when on a good run of form contributes anything meaningful to the team The thing with Russell is bar Ince he has consistently been the most productive wide forward currently at the club. He directly contributed to (goals + assists) 18 goals (10 + 8) last year, 14 goals (6 + 8) in 14/15 and 10 goals (9 + 1) in 13/14. All of which are good returns for wide players. Wiemann's most productive season came for villa and was only 9 (albeit in the prem) and Anya's most productive season for watford was 13 (5+8). Don't get me wrong we do need a better wide forward than Russell but I do think he is probably the best of what we have available (bar Ince). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, robglosta said: Wilson might now flourish under Mac, as did Ibe, Lingaard, Wisdom et al. Wilson would need to learn how to be a team player and look to get on the ball first..... He makes Darren Bent look like a number 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 10 minutes ago, brady1993 said: Johnson is nowhere near good enough on the ball to play as a two in that system. If you want to play a 4231 you play Hughes alongside Thorne and put Butterfield in the hole or go and buy a new player to play alongside Thorne. Too be honest if we want to play High intensity passing football, Johnson should be shipped out at the first opportunity because his ability to retain possession is too poor to play in that style of team. (His passing completion is always around 70% which is frankly abysmal for a midfielder.) We can't do anything until January. The system is much like what Boro played and you can't really play attacking minded midfielders in that role, they naturally go wandering. Johnson is the best fit we'd have for the protection to the defence, unless he goes for Hanson. Until then we'll have to make do. Even if he chooses to play 4-3-3 again, we'll need someone to play the Thorne role. Johnson probably the best fit for that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Just now, brady1993 said: The thing with Russell is bar Ince he has consistently been the most productive wide forward currently at the club. He directly contributed to (goals + assists) 18 goals (10 + 8) last year, 14 goals (6 + 8) in 14/15 and 10 goals (9 + 1) in 13/14. All of which are good returns for wide players. Wiemann's most productive season came for villa and was only 9 (albeit in the prem) and Anya's most productive season for watford was 13 (5+8). Don't get me wrong we do need a better wide forward than Russell but I do think he is probably the best of what we have available (bar Ince). Yeah he does contribute goals definately, but unfortunately he doesn't do it very consistently all in just one burst of form but sadly that does seem to be the case for most our wingers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 1 hour ago, ITSD said: Speaking of DMs, what's become of Hanson? He has seemingly disappeared this season. Can only assume he went to Arsenal? no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Just now, Kernow said: We can't do anything until January. The system is much like what Boro played and you can't really play attacking minded midfielders in that role, they naturally go wandering. Johnson is the best fit we'd have for the protection to the defence, unless he goes for Hanson. Until then we'll have to make do. Even if he chooses to play 4-3-3 again, we'll need someone to play the Thorne role. Johnson probably the best fit for that as well. The thing is the players Boro employed there were actually good passers and composed on the ball. I think your analysis on setting up a 4231 is a little off. Generally one is a defensive midfielder and one is a playmaker, one always sits and one drifts forward a to get plays going. Arsenal play Cazorla there and he is far from defensive minded. Plus Hughes is actually the most effective midfielder from a defensive standpoint bar Thorne by quite a distance. Ultimately I just feel when everyone is fit Johnson doesn't really add anything to the team and is an active detriment to our passing play, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 11 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: Yeah he does contribute goals definately, but unfortunately he doesn't do it very consistently all in just one burst of form but sadly that does seem to be the case for most our wingers I think it's just the case for wide players in this league. They either blow hot and cold like Ince and Russell or are consistently average like Anya. It's why I always liked how Mac would tend to have 4 'first team' wide forwards and would rotate them based on form and effectiveness. Personally I wouldn't be sorry to lose all the wide players at the club bar Ince and Russell and bring in two new players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 1 minute ago, brady1993 said: The thing is the players Boro employed there were actually good passers and composed on the ball. I think your analysis on setting up a 4231 is a little off. Generally one is a defensive midfielder and one is a playmaker, one always sits and one drifts forward a to get plays going. Arsenal play Cazorla there and he is far from defensive minded. Plus Hughes is actually the most effective midfielder from a defensive standpoint bar Thorne by quite a distance. Ultimately I just feel when everyone is fit Johnson doesn't really add anything to the team and is an active detriment to our passing play, I think Thorne/Hughes could play the 2 in 4-2-3-1, Hughes is good in the tackle and have a bit more license to create, Thorne to sit deep and dictate from the back. Feck it, they all run around and move about on the pitch - lets go total football dutch masterclass on the division! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 21 minutes ago, MackworthRamIsGod said: Can I say that you have the best pic I've seen on here, probably on the web. Very funny indeed. @wixman1884 is the man responsible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 For now i'd go with Anya Vydra Russell Hughes Bryson Johnson Lowe Christie Shackell Keogh Carson But by the end of Jan I would want to see Anya Martin Vydra Hughes Bryson Thorne Lowe RB LCB Keogh Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Just now, RadioactiveWaste said: I think Thorne/Hughes could play the 2 in 4-2-3-1, Hughes is good in the tackle and have a bit more license to create, Thorne to sit deep and dictate from the back. Feck it, they all run around and move about on the pitch - lets go total football dutch masterclass on the division! Oh I agree I think Thorne/Hughes there would be extremely effective. Regarding your second statement we were kinda doing that to an extent under Mac before. The front 3 + the 2 attacking midfielders had a huge amount of license to roam across the pitch. It wasn't a rare sight to see one winger drift right over to the other wing or Bryson running in behind whilst Martin dropped into space just outside the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 4 minutes ago, sage said: For now i'd go with Anya Vydra Russell Hughes Bryson Johnson Lowe Christie Shackell Keogh Carson But by the end of Jan I would want to see Anya Martin Vydra Hughes Bryson Thorne Lowe RB LCB Keogh Grant I largely agree with this but I can't say I agree about your future choice of wide forwards. Personally I'd play Vydra on the left and Ince/Russell on the right. Anya just strikes me as steady, average squad player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadioactiveWaste Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 1 minute ago, brady1993 said: Oh I agree I think Thorne/Hughes there would be extremely effective. Regarding your second statement we were kinda doing that to an extent under Mac before. The front 3 + the 2 attacking midfielders had a huge amount of license to roam across the pitch. It wasn't a rare sight to see one winger drift right over to the other wing or Bryson running in behind whilst Martin dropped into space just outside the box. I would most of all, like a bit of joy back. I personally wouldn't swap the 13/14 season for anything. It was special. We didn't go up, but it was special because there was something joyous about our football. I class myself as caring more about being a part of something (supporting) and enjoying our team playing. Some care about winning. Some just care about being Derby County through and through. They're not wrong, I guess we all care about all those aspects to a degree. I'd like us to be in the top flight, but I love us when we play well. I'm still not entirely convinced McClaren is the right way to go, but he's here now and I hope we get going again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 1 minute ago, RadioactiveWaste said: I would most of all, like a bit of joy back. I personally wouldn't swap the 13/14 season for anything. It was special. We didn't go up, but it was special because there was something joyous about our football. I class myself as caring more about being a part of something (supporting) and enjoying our team playing. Some care about winning. Some just care about being Derby County through and through. They're not wrong, I guess we all care about all those aspects to a degree. I'd like us to be in the top flight, but I love us when we play well. I'm still not entirely convinced McClaren is the right way to go, but he's here now and I hope we get going again! I'm with you a 100%. Football style and philosophy come first, success will follow with consistent application. You only have to look at Southampton to see it can work. Mac may have not been the ideal candidate and it may not end up working out. But out of the candidates who were available (it would have been difficult for us to prise a manager away from a club right now), he clearly stands out for what we want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 20 minutes ago, brady1993 said: I largely agree with this but I can't say I agree about your future choice of wide forwards. Personally I'd play Vydra on the left and Ince/Russell on the right. Anya just strikes me as steady, average squad player. Yeah there isn't much between Anya and Russell.However if Vydra is on one flank, then perhaps Anya would provide more assists for the one and a half centre forwards. I'm not hard and fast on the choice of flanks, it may vary with how attacking the full backs are and subsequently which side Hughes and Bryson predominate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 No guarantees that he will even play 4-3-3. His preferred formation is 4-2-3-1 which he used at Newcastle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, sage said: Yeah there isn't much between Anya and Russell.However if Vydra is on one flank, then perhaps Anya would provide more assists for the one and a half centre forwards. I'm not hard and fast on the choice of flanks, it may vary with how attacking the full backs are and subsequently which side Hughes and Bryson predominate. Those are fair points. I just think with Martin up front you want your wide forwards to tuck in and make angled runs in the channel between the opposition fullback and centre back, at which I feel Russell is more qualified. I take it by his complete exclusion you don't fancy Ince? Personally I'm on the fence about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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