433 is gone get over it!

[LeedsRam1999]

In my opinion we just need a bit more defensive stability via a holding midfielder to allow players like Hughes and Bryson to get closer to he striker and do what they do best. That will allow the ball to move quicker and then we can play fast and more direct in my opinion. Don't get me wrong I loved 4-3-3 but we also need to have something else in our locker like all the good teams do. 

[CornwallRam]

15 minutes ago, Whoneedshuls said:

Why do people wanna start Blackman he's utter crap  

Because Bent, Weimann, Russell, Wilson and Ince have all been equally as crap and Vydra and Blackman played fairly well together at Reading. OK, it's not perfect, but seems the best combination from the dross available.

[Zag zig]

2 hours ago, duncanjwitham said:

I've said all along, the formation is a red herring, what matters is style of play.  Without Martin and Thorne (or cover/replacements) we cannot play a possession heavy, controlling system.  And I don't believe we have the players to play the fast, direct system Pearson seems to favour. We also don't have the players to play a sit deep and counter style, or a traditional long ball system. In fact, I don't believe we have the players to play any system I've ever seen before.  So i honestly don't know where we go from here.  All I'll say is, it will take less new signings to get us back to a possession system than the one Pearson favours.

Sensible answer, I think in amongst many opinions there is a lot of head scratching what to do. I'd just be happy to see some progress, for bar a rare glimmer at Preston I can't say we have really started this season, that at 9 games in.

Ive seen it said elsewhere, when Mel took Pearson on he must have known he preferred 4-4-2 or someone failed to ask the right questions. So it's a complete mystery how between them, a better plan was not not conceived. As Thorne was out before the season started and Martin from any modicum of research, was not a sprinter, so bumming him off on deadline day and leaving it until then to bring in the likes of Anya and Vydra is bad planning by one or both.

Just hope the next few moves off the field are made more wisely than the current passes and play on it.

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

433?......

Score load's?

Ship loads?

Win most?

Great to watch?

Yes,bloody please

[Whoneedshuls]

1 hour ago, CornwallRam said:

Because Bent, Weimann, Russell, Wilson and Ince have all been equally as crap and Vydra and Blackman played fairly well together at Reading. OK, it's not perfect, but seems the best combination from the dross available.

That's easy to resolve bring our 20 goal a season striker back from Fulham to play alongside vydra or play vydra up top on his own with Martin just behind to link the play and get nock ons for vydra to chase.

[CornwallRam]

1 hour ago, Whoneedshuls said:

That's easy to resolve bring our 20 goal a season striker back from Fulham to play alongside vydra or play vydra up top on his own with Martin just behind to link the play and get nock ons for vydra to chase.

No recalls allowed on loans until January 

[falconram]

It's alright saying 433 is gone get over it however it worked, we did fall short but the tosh bought in when PC took over didn't take us up a level.I remember reading Wieman was going to rip this league up when he replaced Jamie Ward, well your having a laugh he's like a lost kid, 1 good game in how many.Ince and Bent enough said .

If 433 is gone we may as well kiss George Thorne goodbye .Its alright changing to a 442 but we don't have players who are powerful and strong enough Bryson,Hughes and Butterfield arnt remember van de LAN and Daryll powel that's the type you need to make it work.

Swollow some pride Pearson give 433 a go until Jan and get rid of what you don't need then to give the option of 442 because if you don't this bunch in this formation as it is will lose you your job and MM your crowd

[Whoneedshuls]

9 hours ago, CornwallRam said:

No recalls allowed on loans until January 

Didn't know that  long old season ahead then  

 

[CornwallRam]

10 hours ago, falconram said:

It's alright saying 433 is gone get over it however it worked, we did fall short but the tosh bought in when PC took over didn't take us up a level.I remember reading Wieman was going to rip this league up when he replaced Jamie Ward, well your having a laugh he's like a lost kid, 1 good game in how many.Ince and Bent enough said .

If 433 is gone we may as well kiss George Thorne goodbye .Its alright changing to a 442 but we don't have players who are powerful and strong enough Bryson,Hughes and Butterfield arnt remember van de LAN and Daryll powel that's the type you need to make it work.

Swollow some pride Pearson give 433 a go until Jan and get rid of what you don't need then to give the option of 442 because if you don't this bunch in this formation as it is will lose you your job and MM your crowd

But the last time we played 433 without Thorne and Martin we showed relegation form. It's just not an option until January, and by then we'll hopefully have the players to make 442 work.

[Shuff264]

Doesnt have to be 4-3-3, but in the current 4-4-2 we dont have the cover for the defence nor the link from midfield to attack.

[Bris Vegas]

433 gets the most out of our current squad at present. It will fix things, as we will improve on what's currently being served up at present. We might not reach top six, but we'd move out of the bottom six.

Vydra has capabilities to come short, he showed that at Watford. He's far better at coming short than Bent, so there is at least that when thinking back to the end of 2014/15.

You're right in that we don't have a fit natural holding midfielder, but any combination of three central midfielders is still FAR BETTER than any combination of two from our current squad.

Also, playing three in the middle will give a little more protection and freedom for our wide men to get forward. Russell, Weimann and Ince would all benefit more playing 10 yards further forward.

442 doesn't work with our current set of players. 433 suits 80% of our squad, and a change in style to the previous high-press and quick forward movement will get the best out of the players.

Saying 443 won't fix anything is wrong. It would certainly see an improvement, and no doubt raise confidence as the majority of our squad look so much more comfortable in that system.

Oh, and bring back Darren Wassell as he would at least try and play a pressing style which also suits our players. Pearson wants to play a counterattacking style which we're not built for at all.

[Sparkle]

You play a system to suit your players, simple stuff really 

[jono]

@Bris Vegas but we didn't always press did we .. When the wheels came off in 2 consecutive seasons it was usually because we stopped pressing - that wasn't down to just lacking GT. 

433 looked good when we were all playing well but when we weren't it wasn't much better than what we are seeing now. 

[TheDeadlySaul]

1 minute ago, jono said:

@Bris Vegas but we didn't always press did we .. When the wheels came off in 2 consecutive seasons it was usually because we stopped pressing - that wasn't down to just lacking GT. 

433 looked good when we were all playing well but when we weren't it wasn't much better than what we are seeing now. 

2014/15 - We collapsed due to the whole spine of the squad getting injured

2015/16 - Poor signings, sacking Clement and inconsistent teams are the reason we collapsed

[Bris Vegas]

11 minutes ago, jono said:

@Bris Vegas but we didn't always press did we .. When the wheels came off in 2 consecutive seasons it was usually because we stopped pressing - that wasn't down to just lacking GT. 

433 looked good when we were all playing well but when we weren't it wasn't much better than what we are seeing now. 

Under Clement we never adopted a pressing style, as Clement never coached the players that at Real Madrid. He was so used to having them back in shape, and then trying to counter using the space available.

Sure we controlled possession, but the problem was we lacked the pace to counter therefore last season it became too easy for teams to get back in shape and stopping us from getting behind them.

Meant a lot of sideways passing. Under Wassall, the whole team pushed 10 yards further up the pitch and pressed better, giving us the opportunity to quickly put the defence under pressure.

The wheels came off in 2014/15 due to the spine of the team being disruped, and Darren Bent in particular playing a completely different role to Martin and instinctively running in different directions.

Without having a CF willing to drop deep and linking the play, it forces sideways passing as there are such few options to pass through the lines. The end of the 2014/15 season saw a team badly out of shape (not physically, but in terms of team cohesion and collective style).

Under Pearson we're not pressing, and dropping too deep. Such a stupid tactic considering you've got Butterfield playing out wide and Anya only interested in hitting the byline.

[falconram]

Come January the loan market is available, two players who can't get a game to suit 442,Yaya Toure.Swienstieger, fancy these

[brady1993]

7 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Under Clement we never adopted a pressing style, as Clement never coached the players that at Real Madrid. He was so used to having them back in shape, and then trying to counter using the space available.

Sure we controlled possession, but the problem was we lacked the pace to counter therefore last season it became too easy for teams to get back in shape and stopping us from getting behind them.

Meant a lot of sideways passing. Under Wassall, the whole team pushed 10 yards further up the pitch and pressed better, giving us the opportunity to quickly put the defence under pressure.

The wheels came off in 2014/15 due to the spine of the team being disruped, and Darren Bent in particular playing a completely different role to Martin and instinctively running in different directions.

Without having a CF willing to drop deep and linking the play, it forces sideways passing as there are such few options to pass through the lines. The end of the 2014/15 season saw a team badly out of shape (not physically, but in terms of team cohesion and collective style).

Under Pearson we're not pressing, and dropping too deep. Such a stupid tactic considering you've got Butterfield playing out wide and Anya only interested in hitting the byline.

I think this is currently a big part of the reason why we are struggling right now. It seems both strikers are being told just to run in behind, leaving the midfield to either pass sideways/backwards or attempt a really ambitious ball over the top. Even with a 442 one if not both strikers need to actually show for ball.

[England Ram]

On 24 September 2016 at 20:37, Whoneedshuls said:

Why do people wanna start Blackman he's utter crap  

Not normally a fan of Blackman and your right he's not been great for us, but in Saturday after we were 1-2 down and lots of players went into hiding guess who was the one player not afraid to move, to ask for the ball and at least go for it.............yep Blackman! 

I mentioned this to the group around me and we all watched who was hiding and every time he showed for the ball, every time he tried to put a foot in. For me, credit where credits due. He's Bob at finishing, but can't knock the lad for having some balls. And that's what we ask for isn't it, for our players to at least show they care. 

[jagerbob]

9 hours ago, Sparkle said:

You play a system to suit your players, simple stuff really 

Unless your a stubborn buffoon, and the players you have dont suit your personal style

[YouRams]

You couldn't write it ........