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POLL: Supermanagers; who is better?

Mostyn6

By Mostyn6
in Football Forum

Who is the better manager?  

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lrm14

lrm14

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

I think he inherited a lot of excellent players who hadn't realised their potential. But it takes a world class coach to help these players reach teir potential. They don't do it on their own.

I don't know why people use this though as some point to argue Pep needs to do more.

Name me a world class manager in recent times who has taken over a midtable club and established them as the best in their respective country over a period of time.

It doesn't happen. Because world class managers take over world class teams.

What do people expect from Pep? or him to take over a Sunderland and turn them into the best? There is a reason he gets the best jobs on the planet and is trusted to work with the best players in the world.

The same goes for Mourinho, Ancelotti, Conte, Allegri, Hynckes etc.

 

I think he inherited a club that had a lot of excellent players (which would go on to be the best in the world) and put them in a system that worked rather than playing them based on names, which is what Rijkaard did. Barca underachieved the season before Pep took over, the generation he gained were one of the best in history. The Bayern side he took over was easily the best in the league and arguably the world. It's hardly surprising to see what he achieved at these clubs with what he had.

People weren't asking for Pep to go to a mid table club, more so a club that isn't by miles the best side in the league (Man City) and see how he performs there. That's what we're seeing this season and I'm really interested to see how he gets on. Success at City for me puts him as the best manager in the world and based on his start, he really looks to be doing it. It is a long season though so we'll see.

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Sexydadbod

Sexydadbod

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, lrm14 said:

I think he inherited a club that had a lot of excellent players (which would go on to be the best in the world) and put them in a system that worked rather than playing them based on names, which is what Rijkaard did. Barca underachieved the season before Pep took over, the generation he gained were one of the best in history. The Bayern side he took over was easily the best in the league and arguably the world. It's hardly surprising to see what he achieved at these clubs with what he had.

People weren't asking for Pep to go to a mid table club, more so a club that isn't by miles the best side in the league (Man City) and see how he performs there. That's what we're seeing this season and I'm really interested to see how he gets on. Success at City for me puts him as the best manager in the world and based on his start, he really looks to be doing it. It is a long season though so we'll see.

Barcelona weren't the best team in Spain at the time let alone by miles. Yes they had potential but he made them the best team 'by miles', they weren't the best before. Also on the Bayern part, he has stabilised their club now and brought back the domestic dominance that they had in the 1970s, don't believe sky sports when they try to downplay his achievements there. He may not have won the champions league at Bayern but he improved every player individually and helped to make them versatile e.g, Lahm in midfield and Alaba at cb.

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Sexydadbod

Sexydadbod

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, lrm14 said:

But we now know he didn't have a weaker team don't we, rather Rijkaard underachieved. He had the core of the strongest Spanish squad ever coming through the youth system and the worlds best player. He did have to make difficult decisions like getting rid of Ronaldinho and Deco but both were clearly getting past their best. Look at the Barcelona squad he inherited and tell me again that it's 'nonsense'. Especially when you consider the Real squad started shifting players like Robben, Sneijder, Van Nistlerooy and Huntelaar for bigger 'galactico' signings who didn't perform (Kaka).

 

Real Madrid started to shift the players you named after Pep won the treble with Barcelona, not before. Kaka din't quite work but that was because he had a lot of injuries, not because he wasn't quality.I remember one game in the el classico when he was fit where he completely destroyed Puyol. The other signings they made like Ronaldo,Alonso and Benzema were fantastic signings for them too.

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lrm14

lrm14

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, McLovin said:

Barcelona weren't the best team in Spain at the time let alone by miles. Yes they had potential but he made them the best team 'by miles', they weren't the best before. Also on the Bayern part, he has stabilised their club now and brought back the domestic dominance that they had in the 1970s, don't believe sky sports when they try to downplay his achievements there. He may not have won the champions league at Bayern but he improved every player individually and helped to make them versatile e.g, Lahm in midfield and Alaba at cb.

I was more referring to Bayern with that reference, but I do think Barca had the better team. I know his achievements at Bayern and I think he underachieved there. Heynckes stabilised them and Guardiola was brought in the win the champions league which he failed to do. He won everything domestically with comfortably the best squad in the league and changed their style of football to something less aesthetically pleasing.

I'm excited to see how he's going to do at City. I think this is what will set him above the rest if he does well, doubters of how good he really is won't really have a leg to stand on. 

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Bris Vegas

Bris Vegas

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

After hearing the stat that they have spent £1.5billion between them in the last 10 years I find it difficult to regard either of them as a super manager!

There are different types of managers. Some are experts in fighting relegation, some are experts in gaining promotion on a shoe-string budget, some are experts in actually building a club, some are experts in winning silverware and some are experts in developing players to world class levels.

I think it's quite a sad state of affairs when success in management is only judged on major trophies.

I doubt Mourinho could have built a club like Wenger did at Arsenl, likewise I doubt Wenger could get teams promoted through the Championship as often as say Warnock/McCarthy, likewise I doubt those two could do a Pulis/Allardyce and keep teams up year on year, likewise I doubt those two could develop world class players like Pep Guardiola can.

I'd say there are a number of super managers, though super in terms of excelling in one particular type of job.

If I was to stick my neck out and highlight one manager who has really achieved something extraordinary in modern times, I'd pick Diego Simeone. What he's done at Atletico Madrid is unbelievable.

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Highgate

Highgate

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

If I was to stick my neck out and highlight one manager who has really achieved something extraordinary in modern times, I'd pick Diego Simeone. What he's done at Atletico Madrid is unbelievable.

He's done an amazing job, just a shame he hasn't quite managed to capture the Champions League that his efforts have deserved.  To be denied by Real twice must make it even harder to take.  Maybe this will be their year.

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Sexydadbod

Sexydadbod

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, Lord_Ram said:

Neither 

Diego Simeone 

actually built a club to be a global superpower

jurgen Klopp as well for that manner

Good shout on simeone. He has knocked both Mourinho and Guardiola out of the champions league at the semi final stage in the last few years. First against Mourinho's Chelsea in 2014 and  this year against Guardiola's Bayern. In terms of tactics I think Allegri(Juventus manager) and Tuchel(Dortmund manager) are underrated, both are tactical geniuses. I like what Klopp built at Dortmund and what he is now building now at Liverpool.

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Tony Le Mesmer

Tony Le Mesmer

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said:

what?

Sorry Mostyn. Went a bit cryptic there man. Basically I believe that if Simeone went to Arsenal, the steely no nonsense determination and discipline he could add to an already talented free flowing football team would soon make them league champions.

Can't see Simeone going to the gunners though which makes it irrelevant anyway. :p

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JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta

JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta

Posted
Posted

Risky from Mourinho even if he might have a point. He loves a 'them v us' mentality at his clubs but when its 'him v everyone else' it doesn't work.

"Jose Mourinho: Man Utd boss questions Chris Smalling and Luke Shaw"

Before the game, Mourinho said: "Smalling doesn't feel that he can play 100% with his pain. Shaw told me this morning that he was not able to play."

Afterwards, he added: "For the team, you have to do anything."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37891986

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Bris Vegas

Bris Vegas

Posted
Posted
On 6/11/2016 at 13:07, G STAR RAM said:

Worth revisiting this thread.

For 'super manager' neither seem to be covering themselves in glory yet this season.

Rumours that Pep wants to spend £70m on Griezmann. 

He's no 'super manager' if he can't win the league with the squad they already have.

Interesting that you think that. City's squad isn't really that good is it? Aside from Silva, De Bruyne and Aguero, would you consider any of their other players world class?

City finished fourth last season for a reason. The likes of Raheem Sterling, John Stones and Leroy Sane have potential, but they're nowehere near top level status yet.

Look at City's line-up against Boro. The fullbacks Clichy and Zabaleta are past it and were never top level anyway, Kolorov at CB? Southampton have a better defene than City for instance.

David Silva is good, but is he really better than Eden Hazard, Mesut Ozil or Philippe Coutinho? I wouldn't put Silva in the top five playmakers in the league and he's one of only three world class players City have got.

I think Arsenal have got the best set of players in the league. I think Chelsea have the perfect system to get the most out of a pretty talented squad too. Liverpool have a huge advantage of not being in Europe.

IMO Pep will cement super manager status if he wins the league title in his first season, but I wouldn't be surprised if it took him a few years to get the right players in. They're miles off Barcelona standard in terms of squad quality, therefore it was impressive to see how they beat them so well the other day.

As for United and Mourinho. They won't make top four this season. 

IMO Chelsea and Liverpool, without Europe, are the most likely to win the league. Arsenal are just too inconsistent and Wenger too tactically naive when it really matters.

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