Bris Vegas Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 2 hours ago, Highgate said: Wouldn't it be funny if both 'supermanagers' missed out on the Champions League ? Guardiola is suffering at the moment. He is well able to build an attacking team that presses high, but building a defence seems not to be his strong point. He inherited a Barca team with Puyol, Pique and Busquets (in Barca B), and they managed to do a decent job at covering over the defensive frailties apart from set-pieces when they were overwhelmed. Of course other teams rarely had the ball....so it didn't seem to matter too much. Chygrnskiy ? Stones? Bravo ? Not the purchases of a man who knows how get teams to defend. Still, we should wait to the end of the season I suppose and see where they are then, I'd still like him to do well, his teams are entertaining. He actually bought Pique, rather than 'inheriting' him. Guardiola needs time. Man City finished on 66 points last season. They were rubbish and had a number of older players. He has spent the vast majority of the money on younger players that need time. It took SAF five years to win a trophy at Manchester United. Yet he's among the greatest managers Britain has ever had. Guardiola hasn't even had a season yet. City employed Guardiola for the long-term. To make them the dominant force in England and to make inroads in European competitions over the next five-ten years. Not aimed at anyone specifically on here, but those expecting instant success considering he inherited a team which evidently can't play the way he wants aren't worth debating with as they simply lack footballing intelligence. Barca, Bayern and Madrid are on a whole new level to this City side. Even Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs have a better squad of players to work from. Give the bloke time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDeadlySaul Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: He actually bought Pique, rather than 'inheriting' him. Guardiola needs time. Man City finished on 66 points last season. They were rubbish and had a number of older players. He has spent the vast majority of the money on younger players that need time. It took SAF five years to win a trophy at Manchester United. Yet he's among the greatest managers Britain has ever had. Guardiola hasn't even had a season yet. City employed Guardiola for the long-term. To make them the dominant force in England and to make inroads in European competitions over the next five-ten years. Not aimed at anyone specifically on here, but those expecting instant success considering he inherited a team which evidently can't play the way he wants aren't worth debating with as they simply lack footballing intelligence. Barca, Bayern and Madrid are on a whole new level to this City side. Even Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs have a better squad of players to work from. Give the bloke time... It wasn't that long ago they won the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: He actually bought Pique, rather than 'inheriting' him. Guardiola needs time. Man City finished on 66 points last season. They were rubbish and had a number of older players. He has spent the vast majority of the money on younger players that need time. It took SAF five years to win a trophy at Manchester United. Yet he's among the greatest managers Britain has ever had. Guardiola hasn't even had a season yet. City employed Guardiola for the long-term. To make them the dominant force in England and to make inroads in European competitions over the next five-ten years. Not aimed at anyone specifically on here, but those expecting instant success considering he inherited a team which evidently can't play the way he wants aren't worth debating with as they simply lack footballing intelligence. Barca, Bayern and Madrid are on a whole new level to this City side. Even Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs have a better squad of players to work from. Give the bloke time... Ranieri is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 7 minutes ago, TheDeadlySaul said: It wasn't that long ago they won the league They won the league in 2013/14. Since then they've lost a few players while others have vastly declined. Back in 2013/14 the likes of Jamie Ward and Craig Bryson were key components of our Derby side. Both now aren't even in the top 75 players in the Championship. Goes to show how much 30 months in football can make a difference. Players like Zabaleta, Clichy, Kompany, Yaya Toure, Nasri and Demichelis are over the hill. A few years ago they were consifered among the Premier League's better players. Not now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Prediction. Guardiola will end up in China after 17/18 when Klopp wins the PL with Liverpool, after a years mega money over there he will return to Barca where he will remain until he retires a legend. He will be seen as a genius that the Premier League wasn't ready for by some, others will see a manager that struggles without the best players in the world at his disposal. A long running argument that nobody will agree on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 9 hours ago, Bris Vegas said: He actually bought Pique, rather than 'inheriting' him. Guardiola needs time. Man City finished on 66 points last season. They were rubbish and had a number of older players. He has spent the vast majority of the money on younger players that need time. It took SAF five years to win a trophy at Manchester United. Yet he's among the greatest managers Britain has ever had. Guardiola hasn't even had a season yet. City employed Guardiola for the long-term. To make them the dominant force in England and to make inroads in European competitions over the next five-ten years. Not aimed at anyone specifically on here, but those expecting instant success considering he inherited a team which evidently can't play the way he wants aren't worth debating with as they simply lack footballing intelligence. Barca, Bayern and Madrid are on a whole new level to this City side. Even Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs have a better squad of players to work from. Give the bloke time... Some may accuse you of double standards here. You judged Pearson after 9 matches but Guardiola needs to be given time. Guariola inherited a team that doesn't play the way he wants? So did Pearson and you rightly slated him for not adapting to make the most of the players he had. Just face it, swapping Hart for Bravo and playing Zinedine Zidane at centre back, because he thinks being good on the ball is more important than defending, are 2 of the main reasons why City are struggling. Wheeling out your notion that people who have a different view to you lack footballing intelligence does not make you right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highgate Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 15 hours ago, Bris Vegas said: He actually bought Pique, rather than 'inheriting' him. Quite right, I forgot he was at Man. Utd. And I'd have to say that turned out to be excellent purchase. I honestly wish Pep well, but I've yet to be convinced he knows how build an effective defence. The Premier League is a different kind of challenge, but you would have thought that he would have known in advance that his goalkeeper is going have to be able to deal with a lot more high balls. Having a 'footballing' goalie is great and fundamental to his system, but the basics of goalkeeping shouldn't be sacrificed. Still, the call to give the man more time before judging him makes a lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerbyMark Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Conti at Chelsea is better than both of 'em..so is Klopp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 7 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Some may accuse you of double standards here. You judged Pearson after 9 matches but Guardiola needs to be given time. Guariola inherited a team that doesn't play the way he wants? So did Pearson and you rightly slated him for not adapting to make the most of the players he had. Just face it, swapping Hart for Bravo and playing Zinedine Zidane at centre back, because he thinks being good on the ball is more important than defending, are 2 of the main reasons why City are struggling. Wheeling out your notion that people who have a different view to you lack footballing intelligence does not make you right. Guardiola and Pearson have different job remits - key difference. Guardiola was brought in to change the face of the English game. Fortunately for him, City's owners aren't as moronic as those expecting him to complete the job halfway through his first season. It's a long-term project, hence the reason he bought the likes of John Stones, Leroy Sane and now Gabriel Jesus. Pearson took over a Derby side who had been knocking on the door for promotion for three years. Only a few tweaks were needed, and his aim was short-term (get promoted). I judged Pearson before nine games because he was useless. He ripped up a team (both style and personnel) which had been so close to promotion and ultimately made it far, far worse. Guardiola took over a side which finished 4th las season on 66 points. His project is a long-term one yet he will ultimately be expected to finish in the top four this season. Like I said, those expecting City to be playing like Barcelona after just 7 months or so in the job with City's current squad is frankly an idiot and just out to knock Guardiola. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 7 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Some may accuse you of double standards here. You judged Pearson after 9 matches but Guardiola needs to be given time. Guariola inherited a team that doesn't play the way he wants? So did Pearson and you rightly slated him for not adapting to make the most of the players he had. Just face it, swapping Hart for Bravo and playing Zinedine Zidane at centre back, because he thinks being good on the ball is more important than defending, are 2 of the main reasons why City are struggling. Wheeling out your notion that people who have a different view to you lack footballing intelligence does not make you right. I can put across a fairly decent argument in favour of that in just two words. Jason Shackell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Bris Vegas said: Guardiola and Pearson have different job remits - key difference. Guardiola was brought in to change the face of the English game. Fortunately for him, City's owners aren't as moronic as those expecting him to complete the job halfway through his first season. It's a long-term project, hence the reason he bought the likes of John Stones, Leroy Sane and now Gabriel Jesus. Pearson took over a Derby side who had been knocking on the door for promotion for three years. Only a few tweaks were needed, and his aim was short-term (get promoted). I judged Pearson before nine games because he was useless. He ripped up a team (both style and personnel) which had been so close to promotion and ultimately made it far, far worse. Guardiola took over a side which finished 4th las season on 66 points. His project is a long-term one yet he will ultimately be expected to finish in the top four this season. Like I said, those expecting City to be playing like Barcelona after just 7 months or so in the job with City's current squad is frankly an idiot and just out to knock Guardiola. Pearsons remit was just get promoted? Can you point me not direction of where you read that please? And Man City have brought Guardiola in to change the face of English football, not to win the league? Once again look forward to reading that article. One thing a manager at a club like Man City will not be given is time, he will be under pressure to deliver instant results. Amazing how you contradict yourself to try and make excuses for Guardiola. You've spent the last year telling us how poor all of our signings are and don't fit the system but now make it sound like Pearson inherited a great team...which one is it? Think you need to face facts, both yourself and Guardiola thought he would come here and romp the league. He's even on record saying the league is much harder than he thought, but so far he is falling below expectation. Just out of interest, does the idiot tag also apply to people who expected Pearson to have Derby playing like his promoted Leicester team after just 9 matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester Ram Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Comparisons between Guardiola and Pearson are ridiculous, Pearson had us in a relegation fight, not scoring any goals, with an unhappy squad and fan base. This was off the back of having a bizarre season in the PL with Leicester, where he appeared mentally unstable and being sacked because his son filmed an orgy with Thai prostitutes. Pep's got an alright Man City team looking largely better than they did last year, very likely to finish in the top 4 but still adapting to his, perhaps, unrealistic expectations of the team. This was off the back of being one of the most successful managers of all time at two prestigious clubs. Which one of those do you think deserves more time? Although, they are both mardy ***** who have a reputation but can't deal with a bit of tough questioning from the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 10 minutes ago, Leicester Ram said: Comparisons between Guardiola and Pearson are ridiculous, Pearson had us in a relegation fight, not scoring any goals, with an unhappy squad and fan base. This was off the back of having a bizarre season in the PL with Leicester, where he appeared mentally unstable and being sacked because his son filmed an orgy with Thai prostitutes. Pep's got an alright Man City team looking largely better than they did last year, very likely to finish in the top 4 but still adapting to his, perhaps, unrealistic expectations of the team. This was off the back of being one of the most successful managers of all time at two prestigious clubs. Which one of those do you think deserves more time? Although, they are both mardy ***** who have a reputation but can't deal with a bit of tough questioning from the media. You seem to be saying that Guardiola deserves more time due to past success but hasn't Pearson had comparative success for what we are after? I don't think Guardiola is a bad manager or anything like that, he's arrogant, and for the money he had spent I think they still havethe same problem they have always had...they can't defend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 3 hours ago, Bris Vegas said: Guardiola was brought in to change the face of the English game. No he wasn't. He was bought in to win the Champions League and nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Pearsons remit was just get promoted? Can you point me not direction of where you read that please? And Man City have brought Guardiola in to change the face of English football, not to win the league? Once again look forward to reading that article. One thing a manager at a club like Man City will not be given is time, he will be under pressure to deliver instant results. Amazing how you contradict yourself to try and make excuses for Guardiola. You've spent the last year telling us how poor all of our signings are and don't fit the system but now make it sound like Pearson inherited a great team...which one is it? Think you need to face facts, both yourself and Guardiola thought he would come here and romp the league. He's even on record saying the league is much harder than he thought, but so far he is falling below expectation. Just out of interest, does the idiot tag also apply to people who expected Pearson to have Derby playing like his promoted Leicester team after just 9 matches? Did I say Pearson's remit was to 'just' get promoted? No, I didn't. He was certainly expected to have us playing a decent standard of football too, and paving the way for long-term success. He was a disaster, and he didn't pave the way for long-term success. I've said it before, but had he immediately made changes to the playing squad upon arrival to help the team transition into his way of playing, he would have been given more time. But he didn't... We went from top six to bottom six and looked useless. Now let's compare. Guardiola hasn't been bought in to win the league. He has been bought in to deliver long-term success at Man City, ie. winning the league multiple times and challenging in Europe. Becoming a dominant force takes time. It took United five years to win something under SAF. How am I contradicting myself? You're the one coming up with unrealistic expectations. You clearly don't have much of a footballing brain if you can't understand why Guardiola should be given time. I didn't think Guardiola would come here, take over a team who finished 4th last season with 66 points, and romp the league. I'm not an idiot, I actually understand football. And as for your last comment. Jesus... I didn't expect Pearson to have Derby playing like Leicester within 9 games because we don't have the personnel to play like Leicester within 9 games. Again, that's basic understanding of the game. Derby didn't need an overhaul to get promoted, just a few tweaks. Man City want to build a dynasty under Guardiola. That takes time and considering his vast success in the game as a manager, he deserves the time, just like SAF, to build City into his team on his philosophy. If you can't understand this, I suggest taking up a different sport... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said: No he wasn't. He was bought in to win the Champions League and nothing more. Do you actually believe what you've written? Winning the Champions League is only a part of what the City leagacy the owners want to create under Guardiola. If that was the only thing they care about, why didn't they bring in Mourinho or even Roberto do Matteo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 this time last year @Bris Vegas you were certain that Derby were not good enough to finish in the top 8, now you're saying only tweaks were needed for promotion? Hmmm. Flip Flop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: Do you actually believe what you've written? Winning the Champions League is only a part of what the City leagacy the owners want to create under Guardiola. If that was the only thing they care about, why didn't they bring in Mourinho or even Roberto do Matteo? because they're clueless fanboys using money and Man City as a toy or status symbol. If you think the owners are interested in legacy and not glory, I suggest putting the crack pipe down. I bet they're already thinking of his replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Vegas Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: this time last year @Bris Vegas you were certain that Derby were not good enough to finish in the top 8, now you're saying only tweaks were needed for promotion? Hmmm. Flip Flop Erm, no I didn't say last year we were not good enough to finish in the top eight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said: Did I say Pearson's remit was to 'just' get promoted? No, I didn't. He was certainly expected to have us playing a decent standard of football too, and paving the way for long-term success. He was a disaster, and he didn't pave the way for long-term success. I've said it before, but had he immediately made changes to the playing squad upon arrival to help the team transition into his way of playing, he would have been given more time. But he didn't... We went from top six to bottom six and looked useless. Now let's compare. Guardiola hasn't been bought in to win the league. He has been bought in to deliver long-term success at Man City, ie. winning the league multiple times and challenging in Europe. Becoming a dominant force takes time. It took United five years to win something under SAF. How am I contradicting myself? You're the one coming up with unrealistic expectations. You clearly don't have much of a footballing brain if you can't understand why Guardiola should be given time. I didn't think Guardiola would come here, take over a team who finished 4th last season with 66 points, and romp the league. I'm not an idiot, I actually understand football. And as for your last comment. Jesus... I didn't expect Pearson to have Derby playing like Leicester within 9 games because we don't have the personnel to play like Leicester within 9 games. Again, that's basic understanding of the game. Derby didn't need an overhaul to get promoted, just a few tweaks. Man City want to build a dynasty under Guardiola. That takes time and considering his vast success in the game as a manager, he deserves the time, just like SAF, to build City into his team on his philosophy. If you can't understand this, I suggest taking up a different sport... No you you said his short term aim was to get promoted. I'm guessing Guardiola does not have the short term aim of winning the league or champions league then? No links to the articles where the remits of the respective managers were spelled out, or were they in one of your comic book articles? So Derbys recruitment has not been as bad as you have been telling us then if Pearson only needed to make a few tweaks? And just to get this clear, you expected Pearson to pave the way for long term success in 9 games? You think Pearson was not bought in for long term success then?! Your self profession of being an expert in football is hilarious...what are your qualifications in football out of interest? Why are you suggesting that I take up another sport? Because I disagree with your view? Wow. Sums up your arrogance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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