Mossack Fonseca

[Carl Sagan]

3 hours ago, StivePesley said:

How can Cameron remain as PM given the revelations that his entire privilege and fortune was stashed by his father in an off-shore tax haven?

Meanwhile he keeps a straight face telling us that this govt will clamp down on tax avoidance

Then when asked if he still has money invested in off-shore tax havens he refuses to answer and says it is "a private matter"!!

How are we not on the streets protesting against this ****??

 

I don't consider myself responsible for what my parents did. Ultimately, it's harder to be critical of Cameron for the actions of his deceased father than those of Blair who built his property and other fortune on the back of being a Labour PM and shafting the rest of the country. Gorden Brown doubled the 10% tax rate for the poorest in society and gerrymandered his constituency by rushing through the aircraft carrier contracts, making sure no one could cancel them without paying more than they actually cost to build.

We probably wearily accept that anyone who's dull enough to want to run the country is going to be on the make or have been on the make somehow. Otherwise it's not worth the grief.

[jono]

By suggesting moderation I was implying balance, perspective, and forthought were required rayner than lynch mob gut reactions. Yet again in your above post you launch off on your views over austerity, making party politics the issue rather than universal corruption. Newspapers have always had to sell news papers so the a lead line to encourage sales should not be criticised unless it compromises truth. 

I mean no personal insult, your views are your own and as much as anyone you are free to express them. From my perspective the WAY you express you views shows a considered political bias. From my POV I just don't like corruption and and I know that it is present among all powerful people. Tax avoidance schemes have been practiced under successive governments of all colours and in systems of government that are wildly to the left and right of our own. 

[Shang]

3 minutes ago, jono said:

By suggesting moderation I was implying balance, perspective, and forthought were required rayner than lynch mob gut reactions. Yet again in your above post you launch off on your views over austerity, making party politics the issue rather than universal corruption. Newspapers have always had to sell news papers so the a lead line to encourage sales should not be criticised unless it compromises truth. 

I mean no personal insult, your views are your own and as much as anyone you are free to express them. From my perspective the WAY you express you views shows a considered political bias. From my POV I just don't like corruption and and I know that it is present among all powerful people. Tax avoidance schemes have been practiced under successive governments of all colours and in systems of government that are wildly to the left and right of our own. 

And you're happy with this status quo? It takes vocal and consistent opposition for these things to change. Slavery, colonialism and the lack of universal suffrage were practiced for successive governments but it took consistent, vocal and sometimes angry aggressive action for anything to change. I'd rather be a consistent angry voice if it makes people aware of the issues and creates discussion. As a society we are too complacent and refuse to see the fact that we can be so much better.

My views are my own too, and I can guarantee they are not reactionary "lynch mob gut reactions". I have seen too many articles of systematic abuse and too many stories of lost lives, because of this system that is meant to be serving the people.

You can not separate austerity and corruption. There is austerity BECAUSE of current and previous corrupted government parties. Outside interests from our politicians (including David Cameron's fathers wealth would have to pay 20% due to capital gains tax, a sum of around £6 million) stops any decisions being made to sort out the broken system. By reducing the deficit on the backs of working and middle class, we are giving these rich ******** a free ride and our government is trying to give them more.

I'd be the saying the exact same thing if this happened under Corbyn government or a UKIP government. What's right is right.

[jono]

Your response clearly validates my previous assertions . QED. And as to the status quo it is simply where we are now, a result of past actions and history. It's built on compromise and doing the best we can given human nature. Change it ... Maybe ... But I suspect you'd swap one corrupt lot for another or in your case for a bunch of idealists who comfortably rage in opposition but when faced with the harsh realities of the front line it would be a different story. we would be living under a considerably poorer less liberal society. 

[Stive Pesley]

So your answer is that we should just go back to bed and forget about it? All governent is corrupt, so get over it?

Thanks for your input. It kind of confirms what I feared. Apathy is the biggest threat we face. We're all just programmed to bow down in front of our upper-class masters and not ask questions.

What's on TV tonight? Is it Bake-Off. I hope it's Bake-off...oooh cakes

[GboroRam]

It's one thing to suspect politicians to be up to no good and have no morals. We all think that I'm sure. However we've got a situation where their actions have been proven - if this doesn't bring down the PM then I despair at the state of the country.

[Boycie]

4 minutes ago, StivePesley said:

So your answer is that we should just go back to bed and forget about it? All governent is corrupt, so get over it?

Thanks for your input. It kind of confirms what I feared. Apathy is the biggest threat we face. We're all just programmed to bow down in front of our upper-class masters and not ask questions.

What's on TV tonight? Is it Bake-Off. I hope it's Bake-off...oooh cakes

It is I think, but there's some really nice big cakes hidden around the back for the people who know where to look.

[Stive Pesley]

5 minutes ago, Boycie said:

It is I think, but there's some really nice big cakes hidden around the back for the people who know where to look.

Or can afford the legal team to tell them how to access the cakes in a manner that remains on the lawful side of unethical

[PistoldPete2]

1 hour ago, StivePesley said:

So your answer is that we should just go back to bed and forget about it? All governent is corrupt, so get over it?

Thanks for your input. It kind of confirms what I feared. Apathy is the biggest threat we face. We're all just programmed to bow down in front of our upper-class masters and not ask questions.

What's on TV tonight? Is it Bake-Off. I hope it's Bake-off...oooh cakes

I dont think people who dont find this story can justify the massive coverage it is getting are guilty of general apathy. There are many questions for our governments to answer, but asking David Cameron about his dead fathers tax affairs isnt top of my list that I would like to ask him questions about.

 

[Ramarena]

On 4 April 2016 at 18:51, Inglorius said:

Jimmy Carr already got nailed for that didn't he a few years ago 

Indeed he did……and who was leading the mob after Jimmy Carr? Yep, David Cameron who called Carr's tax arrangements as "morally wrong". 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18521468

So that would mean to receive any money from the Blairmore fund is also morally wrong. No?

[Inglorius]

3 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

Indeed he did……and who was leading the mob after Jimmy Carr? Yep, David Cameron who called Carr's tax arrangements as "morally wrong". 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18521468

So that would mean to receive any money from the Blairmore fund is also morally wrong. No?

Yes I remember that sanctimonious holier than though hypocrite 

[eddie]

17 minutes ago, Ramarena said:

Indeed he did……and who was leading the mob after Jimmy Carr? Yep, David Cameron who called Carr's tax arrangements as "morally wrong". 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18521468

So that would mean to receive any money from the Blairmore fund is also morally wrong. No?

The statement about Cameron's family's tax affairs basically said something along the lines of "We promise not to fiddle like this in the future". In other words, they have very hurriedly moved it or they have found another scam so that they can fiddle totally differently in the future.

Cameron and his entire entourage of cronies are as corrupt as a wunch of bankers.

[i-Ram]

1 hour ago, eddie said:

The statement about Cameron's family's tax affairs basically said something along the lines of "We promise not to fiddle like this in the future". In other words, they have very hurriedly moved it or they have found another scam so that they can fiddle totally differently in the future.

Cameron and his entire entourage of cronies are as corrupt as a wunch of bankers.

I think I am right in saying that there is nothing to suggest anything unlawful about the type of arrangements that the Cameron family have / have had in place for managing their investments/tax affairs. "Fiddling" and "corruption" are both inappropriate words I would suggest to be bandying around in regard to this particular case and I would be a bit more careful with your thoughts Eddie. 

I am not here to defend 'Dave' and his family though. My principal point is that whilst Dave is evidently a sanctimonious tw@t the truth is that every one of us who has posted on here would do the same/something similar if it were lawful and our wealth was such that we could afford to employ advisers to save/earn us money.  

[eddie]

33 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I think I am right in saying that there is nothing to suggest anything unlawful about the type of arrangements that the Cameron family have / have had in place for managing their investments/tax affairs. "Fiddling" and "corruption" are both inappropriate words I would suggest to be bandying around in regard to this particular case and I would be a bit more careful with your thoughts Eddie. 

I am not here to defend 'Dave' and his family though. My principal point is that whilst Dave is evidently a sanctimonious tw@t the truth is that every one of us who has posted on here would do the same/something similar if it were lawful and our wealth was such that we could afford to employ advisers to save/earn us money.  

The fact that he and his kind voted to take £30 a week from disabled people doesn't help me think any kindlier towards him than if he were something I had to scrape off my shoe. He's scum, like the rest of his party. Uncaring, inhuman parasites.

What are you going to do, report me to some higher authority? It wouldn't surprise me, Tory boy.

[uttoxram75]

24 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

I think I am right in saying that there is nothing to suggest anything unlawful about the type of arrangements that the Cameron family have / have had in place for managing their investments/tax affairs. "Fiddling" and "corruption" are both inappropriate words I would suggest to be bandying around in regard to this particular case and I would be a bit more careful with your thoughts Eddie. 

I am not here to defend 'Dave' and his family though. My principal point is that whilst Dave is evidently a sanctimonious tw@t the truth is that every one of us who has posted on here would do the same/something similar if it were lawful and our wealth was such that we could afford to employ advisers to save/earn us money.  

A up fella, hows it going?

I agree with your point that we'd all do it if we could afford advisors to sort it out, but i'm afraid that you miss the vital point about all this.

Not all of us would demand that the poorest in society should pay more to allow us to hide our money.

As the rich stop paying taxes the system of governance that keeps a lid on our more base instincts is eroded to the point of ending up in a world of every man for himself. Its not a good way of providing a nice place for all of us to live.

Dave and his government have preached that austerity is the only way. It appears its the only way because the ******* have taken all the money out of our country and stuck it in a foreign country that does not contribute to the greater good.

Its not news to many people, certainly not to anyone who may have picked up a copy of Private Eye over the last 30 years or so but its the hypocrisy of those who blame the country's ills on the lowest, whilst the richest get richer, not on their merits but on their ability to cheat, that grates.

If I pay a chap £200 to fix my roof cash in hand, then i'm cheating, yet in a way, i'm not, because that chap will spend his £200 in my local pub, newsagent, betting shop,  The £200 will slosh about in the local economy. OK, it may not be taxed but it will be spent in my town.

When the rich hide their billions in tax havens that money is taken out of circulation. It benefits no one. The people who sneak their cash out of the system don't actually spend it, they don't need it. They're already rich beyond most people's imaginations so they're wealth is not put back into the market it was taken from.

To stop this happening we used to have rules that stopped this happening so society as a whole would work better and we'd have a safety net for those unfortunate enough to need it.

You can argue that human nature is to cheat and rob their neighbour but you can also make a case that the reason humans have come to dominate the world is because of our ability to work together and help each other.

Unfortunately, the robbers and the cheats are running the show at the moment but hopefully, shining a light into the murky dealings of the super rich will maybe help us to come to a consensus that sharing and paying our dues is a better way forward than resorting to dog eat dog.

I'll buy you a pint at Wembley with my 30% taxed money.

[Duracell]

1 hour ago, uttoxram75 said:

A up fella, hows it going?

I agree with your point that we'd all do it if we could afford advisors to sort it out, but i'm afraid that you miss the vital point about all this.

Not all of us would demand that the poorest in society should pay more to allow us to hide our money.

As the rich stop paying taxes the system of governance that keeps a lid on our more base instincts is eroded to the point of ending up in a world of every man for himself. Its not a good way of providing a nice place for all of us to live.

Dave and his government have preached that austerity is the only way. It appears its the only way because the ******* have taken all the money out of our country and stuck it in a foreign country that does not contribute to the greater good.

Its not news to many people, certainly not to anyone who may have picked up a copy of Private Eye over the last 30 years or so but its the hypocrisy of those who blame the country's ills on the lowest, whilst the richest get richer, not on their merits but on their ability to cheat, that grates.

If I pay a chap £200 to fix my roof cash in hand, then i'm cheating, yet in a way, i'm not, because that chap will spend his £200 in my local pub, newsagent, betting shop,  The £200 will slosh about in the local economy. OK, it may not be taxed but it will be spent in my town.

When the rich hide their billions in tax havens that money is taken out of circulation. It benefits no one. The people who sneak their cash out of the system don't actually spend it, they don't need it. They're already rich beyond most people's imaginations so they're wealth is not put back into the market it was taken from.

To stop this happening we used to have rules that stopped this happening so society as a whole would work better and we'd have a safety net for those unfortunate enough to need it.

You can argue that human nature is to cheat and rob their neighbour but you can also make a case that the reason humans have come to dominate the world is because of our ability to work together and help each other.

Unfortunately, the robbers and the cheats are running the show at the moment but hopefully, shining a light into the murky dealings of the super rich will maybe help us to come to a consensus that sharing and paying our dues is a better way forward than resorting to dog eat dog.

I'll buy you a pint at Wembley with my 30% taxed money.

I might get this post as a tattoo. Apart from the bits about i-Ram, because that would be silly.

[i-Ram]

8 hours ago, eddie said:

The fact that he and his kind voted to take £30 a week from disabled people doesn't help me think any kindlier towards him than if he were something I had to scrape off my shoe. He's scum, like the rest of his party. Uncaring, inhuman parasites.

What are you going to do, report me to some higher authority? It wouldn't surprise me, Tory boy.

I would have expected you to have thought that your uncaring, inhuman parasitic government might have you under surveillance anyway without me needing to report you. I suspect they would be long bored though by your tedious rants and sanctimonious utterings, constant snide remarks at half-fans and borefests about your love of Belgian beer and cheap weekend hotel trips. I would put you on ignore, but you are parody gold. Now I must take my leave. Just off to the newsagents to buy the FT so I can review my portfolio. I will park in the disabled space obviously  

[i-Ram]

8 hours ago, uttoxram75 said:

A up fella, hows it going?

I agree with your point that we'd all do it if we could afford advisors to sort it out, but i'm afraid that you miss the vital point about all this.

Not all of us would demand that the poorest in society should pay more to allow us to hide our money.

As the rich stop paying taxes the system of governance that keeps a lid on our more base instincts is eroded to the point of ending up in a world of every man for himself. Its not a good way of providing a nice place for all of us to live.

Dave and his government have preached that austerity is the only way. It appears its the only way because the ******* have taken all the money out of our country and stuck it in a foreign country that does not contribute to the greater good.

Its not news to many people, certainly not to anyone who may have picked up a copy of Private Eye over the last 30 years or so but its the hypocrisy of those who blame the country's ills on the lowest, whilst the richest get richer, not on their merits but on their ability to cheat, that grates.

If I pay a chap £200 to fix my roof cash in hand, then i'm cheating, yet in a way, i'm not, because that chap will spend his £200 in my local pub, newsagent, betting shop,  The £200 will slosh about in the local economy. OK, it may not be taxed but it will be spent in my town.

When the rich hide their billions in tax havens that money is taken out of circulation. It benefits no one. The people who sneak their cash out of the system don't actually spend it, they don't need it. They're already rich beyond most people's imaginations so they're wealth is not put back into the market it was taken from.

To stop this happening we used to have rules that stopped this happening so society as a whole would work better and we'd have a safety net for those unfortunate enough to need it.

You can argue that human nature is to cheat and rob their neighbour but you can also make a case that the reason humans have come to dominate the world is because of our ability to work together and help each other.

Unfortunately, the robbers and the cheats are running the show at the moment but hopefully, shining a light into the murky dealings of the super rich will maybe help us to come to a consensus that sharing and paying our dues is a better way forward than resorting to dog eat dog.

I'll buy you a pint at Wembley with my 30% taxed money.

I am all good my friend, and a pint at Wembley seems good - proper British stuff though. None of that exclusive offshore stuff Eddie drinks though.

Hadn't missed the point, I just thought I would cast the line into the pond to see what came to the surface. Trust you to put forward a perfectly reasonable case. 

I think Duracell loves you. 

[jono]

 

The truth is we spend more money as a nation than we earn, we import more than we export and have been doing so for a very long time across a series of governments of ALL colours. I want a health service I want help for the weak, disabled and elderly but as a nation we only have so much and we have to find ways to to spread it out. I don't adhere to any political party but I am a pragmatist. Just because you want something and just because it is right and decent doesn't mean you are entitled to it. Remember also that the top 10% of earners provide 50% of tax revenue. So despite the fact that some are dodgy boys the odds are many of us get a lot more than you put in. 

discuss solutions to the problem and then when all the class warriors have put all the bent bankers in prison and sequestered their assets see where we are .. It won't be rosy green pastures, generous pensions and a fully funded health service and free wifi. 

truth is there has to be Intellect, use of co operation, compromise, industry, persuasion, law, morality and a thousand other things, far removed from the pathetic ill thought out, jealousy based class war that so many seem so happy to use as an explanation for our woes.

[jono]

Now where is the barmaid who says no religion and no politics in the bar !