Rampage Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 1 hour ago, reveldevil said: If your owner is prepared to bankroll the club's spending, what's wrong with that? Totally agree.Restriction of trade, in my opinion. Mel Morris got to be an exception. How did Bolton get £176 million or whatever it is in the red? Bournemouth just got a cash injection, I assume that is ok. Man City just got £264 million. Must therefore be ok. Did Mel pay off the Stadium? I assume that he owns that 'company'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 2 hours ago, Bris Vegas said: You can't compare the two. FFP came in when club status had already been set. It would be fair if FFP came when everyone started on a level playing field, but it hasn't. Rotherham can't compete with Derby financially. They're miles off. So how is that fair? They're going to have to do something truly superb to get anywhere near the top. All because they're restricted to their spending. They can't even gamble a little. Whoever they bring in, if they're any good, they'll be sold within 12 months just to 'balance the books'. FFP kills the dream for the smaller clubs. It's unrealistic to expect a Rotherham to compete within their own budget againt big spenders. You know it, I know it, everyone knows it. You can only complain about teams buying their way to the top because FFP suits Derby. I bet if the shoe was on other foot you wouldn't have the same train of thought. Totally agree. FFP will kill football far quicker than the odd team going into administration ever will. It just makes it increasingly difficult for anyone to challenge the established big clubs. It makes sense to prevent clubs living beyond their means, but if they can bring in cash investments, they should be allowed to spend that cash. FFP should not be about spending, it should just be a strict limit on debt. Owners should not be allowed to introduce any debt over £2m a season and if a club's overall debt is over £20m, it must fall by £1m per season until it is under that figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 If I own a Club, I should be free to run it how I want and to get as much borrowing as i want. Why is football deemed to be a special case? We went bust and learnt from our mistake. That is life. Derby County strictly does not belong to the people of Derby. It belongs to Mel Morris. I think that it would be nice to allow established season ticket holders, say three consecutive years as STHs, to have 5% of shares between them with a maximum number of shares per person. Say 20,000 shareholders with a token number of shares each. They could have one representative at some Board Meetings as a corporate voice.Perhaps worth considering, Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 4 hours ago, RamNut said: Unless QPR get punished the whole FFP thing is a load of old....... Be a while before we know what's happening with that. Them challenging FFP's legality is really stretching out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted December 24, 2015 Author Share Posted December 24, 2015 looks like Bournemouth aren't as mardy as QPR. In positive negotiations about the fine. http://www.espnfc.co.uk/afc-bournemouth/story/2768911/bournemouth-talking-with-football-league-over-ffp-fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 1 hour ago, Rampage said: If I own a Club, I should be free to run it how I want and to get as much borrowing as i want. Why is football deemed to be a special case? We went bust and learnt from our mistake. That is life. Derby County strictly does not belong to the people of Derby. It belongs to Mel Morris. I think that it would be nice to allow established season ticket holders, say three consecutive years as STHs, to have 5% of shares between them with a maximum number of shares per person. Say 20,000 shareholders with a token number of shares each. They could have one representative at some Board Meetings as a corporate voice.Perhaps worth considering, Mel Ask Portsmouth fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Simple answer, if a owner wishes to bypass FFP, he pays the money into an FL escrow account, any overspend is then guaranteed and doesn't affect the club if the owner goes under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagerbob Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 1 hour ago, davenportram said: looks like Bournemouth aren't as mardy as QPR. In positive negotiations about the fine. http://www.espnfc.co.uk/afc-bournemouth/story/2768911/bournemouth-talking-with-football-league-over-ffp-fine Then again they probably voted for it along with 20 odd other clubs in the first place. Just because QPR didnt ever agree to it, they still got outvoted, so do the decent thing, and pay up, instead of writing off your loan debts to the tune of the same amount. Another reason to hate QPR, for the moment they seem immune to sanctions, If they are succesful in their case it makes a mockery of the time and effort put in by every other club bidign by the rules and trying to make this work in the first place. I personally hope the league can kick QPR out of the football league if they do anything but pay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 A bloke on talksport earlier today was speculating that with the amounts of money and hence debt sloshing around the premier league, the next prem league financial failure would be so huge the club concerned would be wiped out for good. That was in the context of a discussion about leeds' business model under Ridsdale. When they failed to gain 4th and imploded they had debts around 75m. Chicken feed compared to today. FFP is about prevention of that scenario by insulating the highly geared from the possibility of collapse. A brilliant insurance policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted December 25, 2015 Author Share Posted December 25, 2015 wonder how villa will cope with relegation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted December 25, 2015 Author Share Posted December 25, 2015 5 hours ago, CornwallRam said: Totally agree. FFP will kill football far quicker than the odd team going into administration ever will. It just makes it increasingly difficult for anyone to challenge the established big clubs. It makes sense to prevent clubs living beyond their means, but if they can bring in cash investments, they should be allowed to spend that cash. FFP should not be about spending, it should just be a strict limit on debt. Owners should not be allowed to introduce any debt over £2m a season and if a club's overall debt is over £20m, it must fall by £1m per season until it is under that figure. Leicester, palace and Watford are challenging. Maybe FFP imposing sensible management in the championship provides more room to sign players to be competitive. also you don't see many Prem clubs (the big clubs) spending as much as before either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 4 hours ago, Rampage said: If I own a Club, I should be free to run it how I want and to get as much borrowing as i want. Why is football deemed to be a special case? We went bust and learnt from our mistake. That is life. Derby County strictly does not belong to the people of Derby. It belongs to Mel Morris. I think that it would be nice to allow established season ticket holders, say three consecutive years as STHs, to have 5% of shares between them with a maximum number of shares per person. Say 20,000 shareholders with a token number of shares each. They could have one representative at some Board Meetings as a corporate voice.Perhaps worth considering, Mel I believe it's probably down the clubs being assets of community value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Agree with Bris, if you're a smaller team with a lower revenue, what can you do? If you have a rich owner and spend, you do risk being sanctioned which could impact on the long term. If you choose not to spend, currently the Championship is realistically as far as you can go, and even then it's a struggle to stay there. You see the likes of Wigan, Yeovil, Bolton etc, they all maybe pushed above their means as a club and are now suffering for it. I'm sure if Yeovil never got promoted to the Championship they wouldn't be bottom of L2 now. As a fan sometimes you have to ask yourself what's the point? No wonder attendances are falling all over the country. Rising ticket prices, and football which isn't going anywhere other than downwards. You have to admire sides, us included, who keep their attendances even in mediocre periods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovis aries Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Spending a few bob is fine so long as the people spending it know what they are doing. Bournemouth, Watford got it right, we have too, this time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ossieram Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Owners of the clubs should be able to bankroll it if they want, but the debt should be theirs and not passed onto the club. Agree to ffp or sign a contract saying all monies put into the club is a gift and the future of the club will remain secure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 7 hours ago, ossieram said: Owners of the clubs should be able to bankroll it if they want, but the debt should be theirs and not passed onto the club. Agree to ffp or sign a contract saying all monies put into the club is a gift and the future of the club will remain secure. How many owners would agree to that? I like the idea but not a single owner would agree to that including Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 No club with a sizeable level of support will ever be wiped out. They will go into administration and start again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 On 12/25/2015 at 00:09, davenportram said: wonder how villa will cope with relegation It will either be a Newcastle situation or Bolton To be honest think that Villa team is top half Champ material at best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam the Ram Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Cardiff are late to the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 On 25 December 2015 at 00:03, HantsRam said: A bloke on talksport earlier today was speculating that with the amounts of money and hence debt sloshing around the premier league, the next prem league financial failure would be so huge the club concerned would be wiped out for good. Just do what Airdrie did. new owner buys another team - e.g. Clydebank - renames them Airdrie, and moves them to.....Airdrie. simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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