Eranio sacked over allegations of racism

[Bris Vegas]

I don't even understand what Eranio is trying to say. It doesn't make much sense and looks like a bodged up translation.

I'm not defending it, if he's saying black people (well defenders) can't concentrate well. It makes no sense.

Doesn't really matter what skin colour you are, we're all humans and we're all the same. There are thousands of examples of black defenders being just as able as white defenders.

Makes no sense. Jerome Boetang and Raphael Varane are just two of a number of current world class black defenders.

Boxing for instance is all about concentration too. How many world class black boxers? So many.

[Anon]

I don't condem or agree at all with what Eranio s said but is that really classed as racism ? He's just stating a point that HE believes is true ! He mentions in there about black people being stronger than whites ! Is that racist too then ? 

I'm not racist in anyway shape or form but I think it's all gone a bit too politically correct !

It's a daft thing to say. It's a crass generalisation and it implies that black people aren't as smart as white people. Let's remove race from the picture. Tell me if you think a UK football pundit would keep their job if they claimed that all footballers from the midlands lacked the mental fortitude to concentrate for 90 minutes?

 

[RiddingsRam]

It's a daft thing to say. It's a crass generalisation and it implies that black people aren't as smart as white people. Let's remove race from the picture. Tell me if you think a UK football pundit would keep their job if they claimed that all footballers from the midlands were unable to concentrate for 90 minutes?

 

I clearly stated I wasn't defending what Eranio said neither was I saying it wasn't racist , I was simply asking was what he said racist or just stupid ?

[Anon]

I clearly stated I wasn't defending what Eranio said neither was I saying it wasn't racist , I was simply asking was what he said racist or just stupid ?

Yeah, I know. I wasn't trying to accuse you of anything. It's definitely stupid and the statement in itself is inherently racist. It doesn't necessarily mean Eranio is racist as anyone can say something stupid without thinking it through.

[SillyBilly]

it's been said it is in the breeding.

Sad fact is only a few hundred years ago, an intelligent black man was no use to anyone, so didn't survive, the strong and athletic were kept as slaves and traded as such. This forced most western blacks into regression as they had no use for brainpower. The opposite of evolving. 

I would say that Eranio on the whole is wrong. The top end of Western Blacks could easily match the top end of European Whites (which I'm classing Eranio as) the rest of the world (3rd world) has caught up yet.

No basis, we're talking 12M or so black people over 3 centuries. That is like taking the population of the iPro out of Africa every year for 300 years against a population of over approx. 50M. Ocean drop.

The more plausible theory which I suspect has got a few people sacked is the correlation of climate & food availability to intelligence. The homosapiens which migrated to Northern Europe (modern day Europeans) and Siberia (most migrated south to modern day China in the last ice age) for whatever reason score markedly and consistently higher than other humans in intelligence tests. You can only look at the common environmental conditions. Out of the colder climes the lowest scorers are the likes of the Inuit, Aleut, Yupik & Eskimos etc. but they still average above world average and markedly so. Its not as if we're talking knowledge tests dependent on teaching quality or prosperity, rather measures of intelligence averaged out over large sample sizes, not learned behaviours but simply natural intelligence. Rather taboo.

I have done a fair bit of reading on human evolution which I find a fascinating subject albeit held back when viewed from the prism of the last 200 millennia, its bound by political correctness from then. Tools who really believe all humans are equally intelligent and equally athletic are just that, tools. Darwin's finches demonstrate how quickly evolution takes place, we're talking a few generations in extreme environmental cases, and yet 200,000 years of distinct non-crossing groups makes us all the exact same?

We know why blacks have dark skin. We suspect we know why the Chinese have their distinctive narrow eyes (Siberian blizzards). And yet we won't even begin to question why certain populations demonstrate higher intelligence, rather pretend its made up.

 

 

 

 

[SillyBilly]

I should add Eranio's comments were not very helpful at all in my view, I suspect his views are based on a little more than his pouring over academic papers.

[Chester40]

I also think it's an interesting and challenging area....

However, I think that what he said was both stupid AND racist.

It is FACT that when you compare even an affluent area of one city in England with a poorer part of the SAME city, there is a HUGE difference in life expectancy, mental health, smoking rates, conviction rates, chances of going to university, wage expectancy, average age of first child etc etc. This is fact, I'm not a lefty inciting class warfare, its just fact.

We know this...and we can see it has nothing to do with colour..it is environmental. You don't need to look through centuries of history to find differences..we can see it in action, on our doorstep.

He made a sweeping statement not about environment, background, class.. but about colour, that's why I think and hope he will/should apologise.

 

 

[rammieib]

A question for discussion in today's society is when does a statement become Racist?

Eranio's comments are racist against both black people and white people. He's called black people as having less ability to concentrate and he's said white people are not as athletic.

All humans should be treated as equal but there are times when a colour of skin, or a nationality, or from a location within the world will mean you are generally better or worse at something. I guess studies will provide factual evidence which makes these aspects true and can therefore cross the line from a racist comment to on a statement of fact.

This is such a grey area though and as history has shown racism to predominantly be against black people, that's where focus today lies. 

[SillyBilly]

 

It is FACT that when you compare even an affluent area of one city in England with a poorer part of the SAME city, there is a HUGE difference in life expectancy, mental health, smoking rates, conviction rates, chances of going to university, wage expectancy, average age of first child etc etc. This is fact, I'm not a lefty inciting class warfare, its just fact.

 

Not sure I follow the thinking there as we're talking of an hereditary characteristic based on past environmental conditions, not conditions in a current life. I.e. fast twitch muscle fiber composition or natural intelligence of those persons across both environments is independent of all those differences you list - its something they are born with.

Of course tendency to commit crime or the ability to spell would differ substantially but they are learned behaviours, not genetic.

 

 

 

[Rampage]

It isn't about race it's actually about class. If you are working class you have less focus on your formal education. You are also more likely to be from a broken home. Being from a broken home you are more likely to begin puberty at an earlier age. So you begin to show signs of becoming and being an adult. You have superior physical attributes to your peers. Coaches notice this and you get fast tracked into sports and teams. With that you now have the coaching and physical attributes to be superior to your peers.

The problem is this contributes to the further decline in educational focus. You are good and better than everyone else at this thing but bad in comparison with everyone else for these things. So your formal education suffers further. You can train them to be physical and teach them how to do an activity, but they relate little of it to or transfer it to any other parts of their life. There is very little self awareness and understanding. 

You only have to look at our Olympians. Almost half of medalists go to just a handful of schools. It isn't about the training they receive in relation to sports but their formal education. If you compared someone from these schools to the sports kid from a working class background that goes to the community school (young teenagers) you can see the difference. One set is more physical the other displays signs of greater mental attributes. 

The class gap is growing. There is only one way to plug this gap and it involves Grammar schools and grants and scholarships for the fee paying schools. Black people are predominantly working class. They (the entire race) are not inferior intellectually. They are not even superior physically. They are simply a product of their environment. Them being predominately working class has nothing to do with genetics. 

The problem is most people can't see this all for what it actually is. A lot of people come out with stuff like Eranio. Now I don't know what he specifically is trying to say. But saying what he did say doesn't automatically imply the person thinks it is down to genetics. People can huff and puff but his thesis isn't outright wrong. What matters is the reasons why. It's the same reason why we have so few black coaches and managers. Their class puts them in a position where formal education is less important. This for a lot of people is hard to recognize because of the position white people have in the class spectrum. They are found right at the bottom and right at the top.

Very interesting post Uptherams. Up the Rams! I taught an eleven year old AfroCarribean lad who was a real nice, well behaved dude. He won the 100 metres school sports day race by TWELVE metres! That guy could run like the wind.

[Albert]

 

@Albert 

Sees name mentioned, notice it's in a thread full of discussion about eugenics and racial superiority debates... 

...dcfcfans at it's finest I see... 

Also, for the record, to my knowledge there exists no solid evidence of any link between intelligence and race, and it appears to be more a matter of socioeconomic factors. For example, IQ tests are a horribly outdated method of intelligence testing, and an "accurate" result requires a first language speaker of the language being tested in. 

It says "indigenous".

Albert's a convict!

My family is quite the melting pot actually, going all the way back. 

Interestingly enough, the borderline racist stereotype around where I live at the moment is that the crime filled areas of the city are the areas that the first and second generation Poms live. They argue that the British populations just accept crime as "something that happens" and their kids continue on with it. Again, to my knowledge there is no direct evidence of this, and it's likely because where I live is an area of post-war Italian and German expats, with many families that have been in Australia for many generations, and only a suburb or two across from the large numbers of British expats. 

Also interestingly, where I'm living at the moment was founded as a free city, and was not connected to the historical prison colonies at all. 

[Alph]

How come he's been pulled up on the black people aren't smart bit but the white people aren't as strong is ok? 

The whole race thing bores me

Take Sunday. Derby County say no to racism. I was just planning on going out and rounding up some African slaves but then football changed me. 

Shut up about race! Stop being anti racist! Works for me. 

I know this is probably a pig ignorant view but here goes...

I hate anti racism. Are black people and white people, on a majority, equal? I'm not talking rights. 

Basically I'm asking if Eranio has made an interesting point? 

And have the anti racists actually made race such a hot topic that you can't talk about differences? Do you see what I'm getting at? 

It's a genuine question. 

Anti racism disgusts me almost as much as racism. I'm not anti racist. I don't feel the need to promote my race or anyone else's race. Jesus, I don't even support England because I don't feel any sort of identity to a nationality. I work and live amongst foreign people. I don't think my country or race is important. 

Anti racism campaigns trying to tell me that race shouldn't be an issue. Race is huge to them!! They bring the issue just as much racists do albeit in a more civilised way. But they still create this huge thing we have to acknowledge. Then when people acknowledge it they aren't allowed to?

Eranio said whites are not as athletic didn't he? How can he be racist? Because the anti racists need racists to exist. So they create them. 

Every day I work with a blacks, Indians, white... and we make racism a joke. We're not all the same. Yet we're equal. Mind blown right there for your anti racism.

Where's all the black goalkeepers? Where's all the Asian CB's? And who gives a ****?

[admira]

Where's all the Asian CB's?

Where's the German CB too?

[cosmic]

Sigh. He's only gone and made it worse for himself...

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/oct/22/stefano-eranio-sacked-racist-comments

 

The former Italy winger Stefano Eranio has hit out at his sacking by a Swiss television company over racist remarks he made in a live broadcast, insisting that “black players are not accustomed to paying attention to certain details”.

Eranio, who won 20 caps and also played for Milan and Derby County, was sacked by the television station RSI after criticising an error from the Roma defender Antonio Rüdiger during the 4-4 draw in the Champions League against Bayer Leverkusen on Tuesday.

“Black players in the defensive line often make these mistakes because they’re not concentrated,” said Eranio. “They are powerful physically, but when it is time to think … they often make this type of error.”

In an interview with the Italian website Tuttomercatoweb, Eranio attempted to explain his comments but only served to exacerbate his situation. “It’s disappointing that people have created all this controversy. I didn’t offend anyone and I don’t want people to make out as if I’m racist. Anyone who knows me is well aware that I am not,” he said.

“It irritates me to be thrown to the wolves like this. The truth is I gave an incorrect opinion, in the sense that if I’d had to time to explain I would’ve said that I meant black players have never had a school of football in tactical terms similar to ours.

“Rüdiger read the situation badly because black players are not accustomed to paying attention to certain details. If they were as detail-oriented as us, then they’d dominate the sport, because they have everything in terms of strength and technique.

“It was a misunderstanding, I don’t want to be made to appear racist. If they didn’t like my comment, they could’ve just told me and interrupted our collaboration. Why create all this controversy?”

[Anon]

“It irritates me to be thrown to the wolves like this. The truth is I gave an incorrect opinion, in the sense that if I’d had to time to explain I would’ve said that I meant black players have never had a school of football in tactical terms similar to ours.

This doesn't make any sense. Rüdiger is a German, born in Berlin, and a product of Dortmund's academy. So Eranio thinks positional sense and tactical awareness is passed on through genes and can't be learned?

[Cisse]

Everybody believe all the people in Finland are big lushes. I don't rate them as racist for thinking that. That's just the idea the have got. I think it's same with Eranio here. Although I believe there is a bit of racism in most people all over the world.

[Carl Sagan]

I thought Ram Talk was for anything Derby Realted (he played for us) and Footbal Talk for other teams

I'm not a mod - someone else moved it - but I think Rams Talk is about the current team/club only. For instance, Football Talk has recent threads on McClaren, Clough (Nigel), Rowett, Carsley & Jossie, Jamie Ward, Jordan Ibe and so on. Nowadays Eranio's not connected with Derby and this story is not about him and Derby.

[Albert]

Sigh. He's only gone and made it worse for himself...

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/oct/22/stefano-eranio-sacked-racist-comments

 

The former Italy winger Stefano Eranio has hit out at his sacking by a Swiss television company over racist remarks he made in a live broadcast, insisting that “black players are not accustomed to paying attention to certain details”.

Eranio, who won 20 caps and also played for Milan and Derby County, was sacked by the television station RSI after criticising an error from the Roma defender Antonio Rüdiger during the 4-4 draw in the Champions League against Bayer Leverkusen on Tuesday.

“Black players in the defensive line often make these mistakes because they’re not concentrated,” said Eranio. “They are powerful physically, but when it is time to think … they often make this type of error.”

In an interview with the Italian website Tuttomercatoweb, Eranio attempted to explain his comments but only served to exacerbate his situation. “It’s disappointing that people have created all this controversy. I didn’t offend anyone and I don’t want people to make out as if I’m racist. Anyone who knows me is well aware that I am not,” he said.

“It irritates me to be thrown to the wolves like this. The truth is I gave an incorrect opinion, in the sense that if I’d had to time to explain I would’ve said that I meant black players have never had a school of football in tactical terms similar to ours.

“Rüdiger read the situation badly because black players are not accustomed to paying attention to certain details. If they were as detail-oriented as us, then they’d dominate the sport, because they have everything in terms of strength and technique.

“It was a misunderstanding, I don’t want to be made to appear racist. If they didn’t like my comment, they could’ve just told me and interrupted our collaboration. Why create all this controversy?”

So he's clarified it to make it sound much worse. Rüdiger is German, his father is German, he went through a number of high profile German academies...

As for the earlier "Asian centre backs" comment on here, there are actually some really good Asian centre backs out there. However, much like you get stereotypes of styles of players in various countries around Europe you get it happening in other parts of the world as well, largely due to the way they educate young footballers (which is interestingly how Eranio was trying to defend himself, which may have made sense if Rüdiger was a German who was educated under the German system). East Asia produces a lot of very solid players technically because it is something they've focused on. West Asia actually produces a great depth of talented footballers, from powerful centrehalves to crafty playmakers, their football culture is just very insular, many of their best players stay largely in the region. What is interesting though is that this means that many West Asian teams are very solid when faced at home. I never seen anything solid that suggests that it's to do with the genetics of the players. 

[Cisse]

I have been rooting for Cameroon since 1982 World Cup. I like their style of skillfull playing. However their defense has always made horrible mistakes and their tactical side hasn't ever been their strong suit. Perhaps Eranio meant something like that too.

[Albert]

I have been rooting for Cameroon since 1982 World Cup. I like their style of skillfull playing. However their defense has always made horrible mistakes and their tactical side hasn't ever been their strong suit. Perhaps Eranio meant something like that too.

Which is all well and good, but Rüdiger isn't from Cameroon, he's a German player, from a German upbringing. Even if you ignore the blatant outdated racial ideas and just get down to "well, in some countries their football education isn't as good at certain things", that doesn't apply to Rüdiger, and the fact he said it as though it did will mean to a lot of people that he likely just saw a black player and profiled him based entirely on that.