Ambitious Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 Let's just assume for one moment: This woman lied about this 'rape' for the money and it was revealed in open court. Considering the damage he has gone though, etc, do you think she should face jail time? I'd argue yes, definitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 6 minutes ago, Ambitious said: Let's just assume for one moment: This woman lied about this 'rape' for the money and it was revealed in open court. Considering the damage he has gone though, etc, do you think she should face jail time? I'd argue yes, definitely. apples and oranges. In the Jeff example its providing a pattern of getting into fights so it could be self defense. in the case of an alleged rape the arguments becomes "it might not be rape because she sleeps with a lot if men" that's too close to the "she was asking for it because of her lifestyle" defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, davenportram said: apples and oranges. In the Jeff example its providing a pattern of getting into fights so it could be self defense. in the case of an alleged rape the arguments becomes "it might not be rape because she sleeps with a lot if men" that's too close to the "she was asking for it because of her lifestyle" defense. Asking for what? The defence's argument in the Evans case isn't "she deserved to get raped because of how she behaved", it's "the sex was consensual and a hook up in a hotel room isn't out of character". I see no reason to get all squeamish about providing patterns of behaviour just because sex is involved. I'd say it's all the more important in this case since the plaintiff can't remember the night in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 16 minutes ago, Anon said: Asking for what? The defence's argument in the Evans case isn't "she deserved to get raped because of how she behaved", it's "the sex was consensual and a hook up in a hotel room isn't out of character". I see no reason to get all squeamish about providing patterns of behaviour just because sex is involved. I'd say it's all the more important in this case since the plaintiff can't remember the night in question. but just because its not out of character isn't a reason to doubt its rape. Not a valid defense in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 12 minutes ago, davenportram said: but just because its not out of character isn't a reason to doubt its rape. Not a valid defense in my eyes. It absolutely is reason to doubt in this case because the plaintiff can't remember the night in question. If you're not prepared to accept that defence then you must admit that anyone who can't remember their actions at a specific time must have been wronged and any accusation they subsequently make must be believed without question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 6 hours ago, Anon said: It absolutely is reason to doubt in this case because the plaintiff can't remember the night in question. If you're not prepared to accept that defence then you must admit that anyone who can't remember their actions at a specific time must have been wronged and any accusation they subsequently make must be believed without question. no the lack of memory doesn't influence the validity of the claims at all. But if memory is lost you can't assume they've done something because they've done it before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 I also struggle to accept that a jury can decide it's rape when the alleged victim didn't/doesn't even know it's rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewetube Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Mostyn6 said: I also struggle to accept that a jury can decide it's rape when the alleged victim didn't/doesn't even know it's rape. I too find this very strange, how could it have been "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouRams Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 10 hours ago, Ambitious said: Let's just assume for one moment: This woman lied about this 'rape' for the money and it was revealed in open court. Considering the damage he has gone though, etc, do you think she should face jail time? I'd argue yes, definitely. She should 100% face jail time. She should also be forced to pay back tax payers money that has been spent putting her into witness protection. The only reason she was receiving so much abuse was because of people finding out she'd tried to get a professional rugby player done for "rape" in the past. Not only that her social media account was found and around the time of the court case she'd been bragging about buying a pink mini and taking her girls away on holidays. The whole thing stinks and unfortunately we live in a time where people value money over someone's life. She deserves to have hers taken away for the same time period he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 57 minutes ago, YouRams said: She should 100% face jail time. She should also be forced to pay back tax payers money that has been spent putting her into witness protection. The only reason she was receiving so much abuse was because of people finding out she'd tried to get a professional rugby player done for "rape" in the past. Not only that her social media account was found and around the time of the court case she'd been bragging about buying a pink mini and taking her girls away on holidays. The whole thing stinks and unfortunately we live in a time where people value money over someone's life. She deserves to have hers taken away for the same time period he has. I'm not sure hypothetical discussions are wise at this point. People clearly have opinions and you could say they've decided guilt and innocence and are now meting out punishment and tarring people involved. As it stands the court needs to make a decision still, Ched has done nothing wrong but is still accused of a serious crime. Discussions about motivations and guilt are cart before the horse. Let's wait for a verdict before we hang the victim out to dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete2 Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 AT this stage its pure speculation as to what the "new evidence" is. It may not matter, because he only needed to provide new evidence to win the appeal , now hes done that it is due for a retrial which even on the old evidence (or rather lack of it) the prosecution would struggle to get a conviction before a competent judge and jury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 Just now, GboroRam said: I'm not sure hypothetical discussions are wise at this point. People clearly have opinions and you could say they've decided guilt and innocence and are now meting out punishment and tarring people involved. As it stands the court needs to make a decision still, Ched has done nothing wrong but is still accused of a serious crime. Discussions about motivations and guilt are cart before the horse. Let's wait for a verdict before we hang the victim out to dry. Hypothetical discussions can only exist before a decision has been made. Once we know the truth it's not hypothetical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 1 minute ago, SaintRam said: Hypothetical discussions can only exist before a decision has been made. Once we know the truth it's not hypothetical. I said I think they're not wise. We've got so much hearsay flying about it colours people's opinions. "I heard someone hacked her twitter" sounds a bit like bull, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 Just now, GboroRam said: I said I think they're not wise. We've got so much hearsay flying about it colours people's opinions. "I heard someone hacked her twitter" sounds a bit like bull, don't you think? Ha, yeah it does I hadn't seen that. I enjoy legal hypotheticals though, obviously its unhelpful for people to have an opinion on what they think happened because no-one knows, but I like to talk about potential rulings and legislation technicalities based on presented potential outcomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouRams Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 4 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I'm not sure hypothetical discussions are wise at this point. People clearly have opinions and you could say they've decided guilt and innocence and are now meting out punishment and tarring people involved. As it stands the court needs to make a decision still, Ched has done nothing wrong but is still accused of a serious crime. Discussions about motivations and guilt are cart before the horse. Let's wait for a verdict before we hang the victim out to dry. Does the retrial involve judge and jury? Because I cant see it being a fair trial if so, as you say peoples minds will already be made up regardless of evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 still bothers me more than anything that a man is responsible for judging how drunk a woman is before accepting her consent and offer of sex. What makes a man qualified to judge a woman's level of drunkeness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 9 minutes ago, Mostyn6 said: still bothers me more than anything that a man is responsible for judging how drunk a woman is before accepting her consent and offer of sex. What makes a man qualified to judge a woman's level of drunkeness? Come on Mostyn. You know as well as I do that women have no agency and are near incapable of making descisions on their own. I mean, in 2016, it's pretty dreadful that they are allowed out without a male escort. What kind of sick society are we turning into? So, as a responsible adult, I always ring the girl's father to verify that she is indeed compos mentis before initiating coitus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 10 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: still bothers me more than anything that a man is responsible for judging how drunk a woman is before accepting her consent and offer of sex. What makes a man qualified to judge a woman's level of drunkeness? Anything more than a semi is consent, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 If there is clear evidence she has comitted perjury she will face some sort of punishment, however if the outcome is that there is now reasonable doubt and evans is found not guilty you cannot go throwing the book at her, you may aswell say every rape case that goes to court will see the accuser face jail time if the accused is found not guilty. If that was to happen you will slash the number of victims coming forward overnight as they will fear what might happen if the accused gets off. All of this is why the accused should remain anonymous too until found guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadbob Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 On 21/04/2016 at 12:25, Mostyn6 said: the conviction should never have stood on the foolish grounds that a woman is not responsible for her actions when she's gotten herself drunk, yet a man has to face the consequences regardless. If it wasn't for drunken birds like this I'd still be a virgin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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