McRamFan Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 Wonder if he would let his mate 'take over' on his girlfriend if she was so drunk she was being stepped over in a kebab shop? Would she mind? Treat others as you expect to be treated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 1 hour ago, IlsonDerby said: But surely it needs addressing that many think it is acceptable to take a girl on the floor in the kebab shop back to the hotel room? It's not about trying to be holier than thou or taking the moral high ground it's just about doing the right thing. Lets just ban women from drinking a certain amount because men have lost all ability to be chivalrous and do the right thing. I am not disagreeing with you that it wasn't the sort of thing a decent person would do, I wouldn't and i dont think its particularly acceptable..BUT I just don't think she should be absolved of responsibility because she chose to drink too much. We all have a fair idea of our threshold when it comes to alcohol, surely she did too. I don't think its acceptable for a girl to accuse someone of rape because she got so drunk she was unsure of her actions. They both acted poorly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete2 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 5 hours ago, IlsonDerby said: one night stands from a night out we can probably all say yes to...with a girl I've stepped over in the kebab shop and not met before this moment? No. Big difference between being invited back somewhere when you've spent the night conversing with and enjoying the company of someone than getting a text off your mate and heading over too wet your willy. A girl you met for the first time as you stepped over her in a kebab shop? No I'm sorry there's lots of things wrong with this. It was the most causal of sex. But it takes two to tango. He had just met her. There was no sweet talk, no wooing , no romantic dinner dates. Some may find this shocking, deplorable. But she had only just met them both too, and had sex with them both. His behaviour is no more immoral than hers. And when he went to the hotel he didn't know she was the girl who his friend had taken back was the girl he had stepped over in the kebab shop. Would i I like this guy to be my daughters boyfriend? No. Do I think he's a rapist? No. do I think he's a misogynist . there's no evidence of that. Do I think it's a miscarriage of justice that a young footballer has lost the best years of his career for a crime he didn't commit. Yes. Do I think our society is broken when a lynch mob of social media keyboard warriors hound this guy , even when he's served a sentence for a crime he didn't commit and they still want the guys blood. Yes. Same about the lady too. She didn't desrve the treatment she got from the keyboard warriors. The difference for evans is that even some mainstream journalists have continued this vendetta against him. Theres so so many things wrong about this case. Incompetent prosecuting authorities, a broken and self-serving justice system, cheap and inaccurate commenting in the mainstream media and a total baying mob on social media. Yes, some restraint from the two main parties involved would have avoided all this. But I think the main problems that this case highlights are the ones I've described above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 was she just sitting on the floor of the kebab house as there was nowhere to sit? or whilst she was trying to pull? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmycock Posted October 24, 2016 Share Posted October 24, 2016 13 hours ago, Mostyn6 said: why is it a man's responsibility to decide how drunk a woman is? and whether or not she is capable of making a decision? You old romantic, you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 13 hours ago, Paul71 said: I am not disagreeing with you that it wasn't the sort of thing a decent person would do, I wouldn't and i dont think its particularly acceptable..BUT I just don't think she should be absolved of responsibility because she chose to drink too much. We all have a fair idea of our threshold when it comes to alcohol, surely she did too. I don't think its acceptable for a girl to accuse someone of rape because she got so drunk she was unsure of her actions. They both acted poorly. As I've said, I don't think he raped her but I think he acted in the worst possible way and in the way that gives men an unjust terrible reputation. 12 hours ago, PistoldPete2 said: No I'm sorry there's lots of things wrong with this. It was the most causal of sex. But it takes two to tango. He had just met her. There was no sweet talk, no wooing , no romantic dinner dates. Some may find this shocking, deplorable. But she had only just met them both too, and had sex with them both. His behaviour is no more immoral than hers. And when he went to the hotel he didn't know she was the girl who his friend had taken back was the girl he had stepped over in the kebab shop. Would i I like this guy to be my daughters boyfriend? No. Do I think he's a rapist? No. do I think he's a misogynist . there's no evidence of that. Do I think it's a miscarriage of justice that a young footballer has lost the best years of his career for a crime he didn't commit. Yes. Do I think our society is broken when a lynch mob of social media keyboard warriors hound this guy , even when he's served a sentence for a crime he didn't commit and they still want the guys blood. Yes. Same about the lady too. She didn't desrve the treatment she got from the keyboard warriors. The difference for evans is that even some mainstream journalists have continued this vendetta against him. Theres so so many things wrong about this case. Incompetent prosecuting authorities, a broken and self-serving justice system, cheap and inaccurate commenting in the mainstream media and a total baying mob on social media. Yes, some restraint from the two main parties involved would have avoided all this. But I think the main problems that this case highlights are the ones I've described above. It doesn't say that she had only just met his friend? His friend and her could have spent the evening flirting/drinking together and then decided to head back to his hotel room. I don't think anybody should be calling him a rapist but that doesn't take away the way he acted to his fiancé and the way in which he acted in general on that night. And at the same time I'm not against people explaining how they feel about him. He is dirt. He had sex with a girl who was so drunk she was squatting in shop doorways to urinate, he had never met her until he LIED to get the key to his friends room and walk in on them in the act and all of this whilst his fiancé was at home. These are the facts and from the facts he looks like scum. Not a rapist but a scumbag nonetheless. She doesn't come out in this covered in roses but it's dangerous to go down the line of 'she should watch how much she drinks' as opposed to teaching young men 'if she's clearly drunk just send her home'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 13 hours ago, PistoldPete2 said: No I'm sorry there's lots of things wrong with this. It was the most causal of sex. But it takes two to tango. He had just met her. There was no sweet talk, no wooing , no romantic dinner dates. Some may find this shocking, deplorable. But she had only just met them both too, and had sex with them both. His behaviour is no more immoral than hers. And when he went to the hotel he didn't know she was the girl who his friend had taken back was the girl he had stepped over in the kebab shop. Would i I like this guy to be my daughters boyfriend? No. Do I think he's a rapist? No. do I think he's a misogynist . there's no evidence of that. Do I think it's a miscarriage of justice that a young footballer has lost the best years of his career for a crime he didn't commit. Yes. Do I think our society is broken when a lynch mob of social media keyboard warriors hound this guy , even when he's served a sentence for a crime he didn't commit and they still want the guys blood. Yes. Same about the lady too. She didn't desrve the treatment she got from the keyboard warriors. The difference for evans is that even some mainstream journalists have continued this vendetta against him. Theres so so many things wrong about this case. Incompetent prosecuting authorities, a broken and self-serving justice system, cheap and inaccurate commenting in the mainstream media and a total baying mob on social media. Yes, some restraint from the two main parties involved would have avoided all this. But I think the main problems that this case highlights are the ones I've described above. I don't think it's fair to criticise those people who spoke out against him and all who stood by him after the first verdict. At that point he was a convicted rapist. I understand why that would anger some people and why they would want their football club to distance themselves from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 18 minutes ago, GboroRam said: I don't think it's fair to criticise those people who spoke out against him and all who stood by him after the first verdict. At that point he was a convicted rapist. I understand why that would anger some people and why they would want their football club to distance themselves from him. I think that's a fair point. I object to former criminals being denied the opportunity to return to work, but understand that football is an exception in that the players are seen as role models. Taking that view, however, opens up a can of worms on what exactly is acceptable player behaviour. Should I, for instance, have demanded that Marvin Robinson's contract be terminated after he beat up a woman outside a nightclub? Should Jessica Ennis have threatened to withdraw her support for Sheff Utd when they signed Marlon King, since he likes to smack women around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Anon said: I think that's a fair point. I object to former criminals being denied the opportunity to return to work, but understand that football is an exception in that the players are seen as role models. Taking that view, however, opens up a can of worms on what exactly is acceptable player behaviour. Should I, for instance, have demanded that Marvin Robinson's contract be terminated after he beat up a woman outside a nightclub? Should Jessica Ennis have threatened to withdraw her support for Sheff Utd when they signed Marlon King, since he likes to smack women around? I don't think there is answer. But I understand if someone takes that stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 6 hours ago, IlsonDerby said: As I've said, I don't think he raped her but I think he acted in the worst possible way and in the way that gives men an unjust terrible reputation. It doesn't say that she had only just met his friend? His friend and her could have spent the evening flirting/drinking together and then decided to head back to his hotel room. I don't think anybody should be calling him a rapist but that doesn't take away the way he acted to his fiancé and the way in which he acted in general on that night. And at the same time I'm not against people explaining how they feel about him. He is dirt. He had sex with a girl who was so drunk she was squatting in shop doorways to urinate, he had never met her until he LIED to get the key to his friends room and walk in on them in the act and all of this whilst his fiancé was at home. These are the facts and from the facts he looks like scum. Not a rapist but a scumbag nonetheless. She doesn't come out in this covered in roses but it's dangerous to go down the line of 'she should watch how much she drinks' as opposed to teaching young men 'if she's clearly drunk just send her home'. Is it not both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Paul71 said: Is it not both? It should be but I have strong views that as men we shouldn't be taking advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete2 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 10 hours ago, GboroRam said: I don't think it's fair to criticise those people who spoke out against him and all who stood by him after the first verdict. At that point he was a convicted rapist. I understand why that would anger some people and why they would want their football club to distance themselves from him. Yes it is. I don't think you quite get it. I was subjected to some abuse on this forum for offering the viewpoint that he was not guilty. It seemed I was definitely off message at the time. On less civilised forums than this one , the abuse was far worse especially Twitter some people were and still are being threatened and abused. Richard and judys daughter was threatened with rape herself.. Funny kind of anti-rape campaigner who would do that ? And where are the people who ostracised evans now? Has Anyone who said he should not be allowed back into football apologised to Him? the silence is deafening. Added to which there are the usual mix of screwballs who still insist he is guilty of rape despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 9 minutes ago, PistoldPete2 said: Yes it is. I don't think you quite get it. I was subjected to some abuse on this forum for offering the viewpoint that he was not guilty. It seemed I was definitely off message at the time. On less civilised forums than this one , the abuse was far worse especially Twitter some people were and still are being threatened and abused. Richard and judys daughter was threatened with rape herself.. Funny kind of anti-rape campaigner who would do that ? And where are the people who ostracised evans now? Has Anyone who said he should not be allowed back into football apologised to Him? the silence is deafening. Added to which there are the usual mix of screwballs who still insist he is guilty of rape despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I think people should leave him alone now...but I don't think the likes of Jessica Ennis have a single thing to apologise for. If she had that stance now fair enough, but it was based on factual information that he was a convicted rapist..at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 28 minutes ago, PistoldPete2 said: Added to which there are the usual mix of screwballs who still insist he is guilty of rape despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I think it's very subjective and the problem is caused by the wooliness of the legal situation. But if you feel that you should have been allowed to argue his innocence, you must also accept that people who see the other side of the argument have the right to carry on arguing his guilt. As for being subjected to abuse, if you feel anything said is unfair - report it. Remember you were pretty vociferous in your views as well - I saw it mostly as giving as you get. But if you feel otherwise, use the report button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete2 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 1 hour ago, GboroRam said: I think it's very subjective and the problem is caused by the wooliness of the legal situation. But if you feel that you should have been allowed to argue his innocence, you must also accept that people who see the other side of the argument have the right to carry on arguing his guilt. As for being subjected to abuse, if you feel anything said is unfair - report it. Remember you were pretty vociferous in your views as well - I saw it mostly as giving as you get. But if you feel otherwise, use the report button. Gboro there's no problem with anything said now on this forum , it was different a couple of years ago tho but it was dealt with at the time. As you say, some people feel very strongly but there's no place for abusing other forum members. But as I say, it's nothing compared to what goes on in Twitter and the like. at the time of the controversy two years ago, evans was still protesting his innocence and was going through a legal process. At this time, I am not aware of any legal process by which he could now be found guilty. The complainant never claimed she Was raped. The prosecution have never said that they will Appeal. So it's only the keyboard warriors who believe he is guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 On 25/10/2016 at 19:12, Paul71 said: I think people should leave him alone now...but I don't think the likes of Jessica Ennis have a single thing to apologise for. If she had that stance now fair enough, but it was based on factual information that he was a convicted rapist..at the time. She doesn't have to apologise, but as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I do wonder about her morals considering she seemed quite happy to have her name associated with Marlon King when Sheffield United signed him. Perhaps she could be coaxed down from her ivory tower some time in order to inform the unwashed masses exactly which criminal convictions should bar people from re-entry to the workplace and which should just be ignored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 2 minutes ago, Anon said: She doesn't have to apologise, but as I mentioned earlier in the thread, I do wonder about her morals considering she seemed quite happy to have her name associated with Marlon King when Sheffield United signed him. Perhaps she could be coaxed down from her ivory tower some time in order to inform the unwashed masses exactly which criminal convictions should bar people from re-entry to the workplace and which should just be ignored? I am with you on that one, but i dare bet as it wasnt as high profile it went under her radar, i would suspect that is the only reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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