Boxing Thread

[Alph]

Hey, it will be great to see how Usyk gets on at that weight. Holyfield came in and apparently fought in a golden era. He came up to the weight and was fighting at the same height and weight we can expect from Usyk. 

I don't think it's unfair to say that Usyk has proven in the amateurs, world series and professional cruiserweight division that he's incredibly skilled with one hell of chin. There's no better decorated boxer to test the modern heavies. Forget punch power, this guy will test their boxing. 

Personally I think he'll fall short when faced with the elite heavies because they are much better than given credit. 

Add Joyce and Ortiz to the list of fighters in this era

Edited September 22, 2018 by Alpha

[Comrade 86]

10 minutes ago, Alpha said:

I think past heavyweight eras are overrated. I'm not saying AJ is beating Mike Tyson or Lewis or Ali!! It's just not an argument that should exist. 

It seems every era people say the HW division is weak. Every era. 

You wouldn't argue about 70's Derby vs 90's Man United. 

The HW division has always looked like it's got crap fighters purely because they don't always carry the best physique and they drop like sacks of turd. 

People said the same when Lewis ruled the world. And then again under the Klitschko's. Now you look back on them as legends and remember epic fights. What about the human punchbags they all fought. It took them 40+ fights to prove themselves as legends 

I think the HW division has everything right now. Miller, Whyte, Parker, Fury x2, AJ, Chagaev, Dauhapas, Wilder, Molina, Hammer, Brown, Charr, Takam, Chisora, Pulev, Usyk (soon), Haye, Wlad, Povetkin...

So many different styles and sizes that have paired off in the last couple of years. Not all in their prime but what era was any different?

I've not seen a decent HW title fight in a fair while tbh. AJ vs Klitschko was half decent I guess, but the list of names you've given for a division having 'everything' leaves me absolutely stone cold. You say you can't compare fighters across eras but everyone does, especially when there's a dearth of quality contenders. I'm not dissing AJ, I just can't see anyone in the div being able to deal with him or even coming close. Wilder might land a shot I guess and maybe he has the power to test AJ's mettle but can you really say that Fury vs AJ would be a fight you'd spend bombs to attend? I guess you don't agree but to my taste, heavyweights get a disproportionate amount of attention. I feel for AJ as I sense he really wants to be recognised as a true champion and over time he may well be, but it's hard to build a legacy in an uncompetitive division. Bar AJ, the rest are much of a muchness, to my way of thinking, irrespective of their shapes, styles and sizes.

[jimbo jones]

5 hours ago, Alpha said:

Seeing a few haters over social media as usual when Joshua fights. And he still marches on. 

Still some people think you can't support AJ and Fury. You can. 

Took AJ 4 rounds to figure Povetkin out though. Great effort from Povetkin. 

It's odd. Price is far stiffer than AJ but he caught Povetkin a few times as Povetkin went under and over with a hook. He caught the top of his head because Povetkin leaves himself open when he hooks. 

Joshua never really got that success. But it was further proof he's got a good chin and as soon as Povetkin slowed down he took him out perfectly. 

Seen one idiot say that if AJ had been in with a world class fighter tonight he'd have lost. What? Like Povetkin? Wlad? Parker? 

AJ and Wilder have both nearly messed up here. Povetkin nearly spoiled their fight and Tyson still might. Terrible that this fight wasn't made. It'll be Whyte in April.

It’s the same with everything, nothing is as good as yesteryear when your looking back through rose tinted glasses....

[Comrade 86]

13 hours ago, jimbo jones said:

It’s the same with everything, nothing is as good as yesteryear when your looking back through rose tinted glasses....

No it's not 'the same with everything' and I don't wear glasses. The assessment I made was not a blanket 'the past is better than the current' statement, just MY OPINION on a single current division. If you want to blithely dismiss other folks' views then at least try to do so with an valid argument rather than implying they are blinkered or stupid.

[jimbo jones]

16 minutes ago, 86 points said:

No it's not 'the same with everything' and I don't wear glasses. The assessment I made was not a blanket 'the past is better than the current' statement, just MY OPINION on a single current division. If you want to blithely dismiss other folks' views then at least try to do so with an valid argument rather than implying they are blinkered or stupid.

Wasn’t talking to you, was making a generalised statement to alpha....which is gernerally accurate. I have little doubt you know a lot more about said subject than me, as it doesn’t interest me greatly

[Comrade 86]

8 minutes ago, jimbo jones said:

Wasn’t talking to you, was making a generalised statement to alpha....which is gernerally accurate. I have little doubt you know a lot more about said subject than me, as it doesn’t interest me greatly

Fair enough mate. I don't pretend to be an expert in any case, I just know what I find entertaining and what I don't. Nobody else expressed the opinion post-fight so I assumed you were referring to my posts rather than something nobody had posted. 

Edited September 23, 2018 by 86 points

[Alph]

1 hour ago, 86 points said:

Fair enough mate. I don't pretend to be an expert in any case, I just know what I find entertaining and what I don't. Nobody else expressed the opinion post-fight so I assumed you were referring to my posts rather than something nobody had posted. 

I was moaning about some haters out there on social media and that's what Jimbo referred to.

There are loads mate. Calling this boxer a bum and that boxer a bin man. The keyboard warriors couldn't cope with a training camp never mind the sparring and fighting 

[Sexydadbod]

Joshua’s changed my mind, 2 years ago I thought he was overrated and relied on nothing but his power. I thought that he was an ok boxer but nothing much apart and would be exposed in the latter rounds which is why I thought he’d be exposed against the likes of Parker, Klitchscho etc. I guess you could call me a Joshua hater then.  Now I think he’s the real deal. I can’t see anyone beating him. Fury a few years ago probably would be very close but I can’t ever see him ever getting back to that level. I can see Joshua going unbeaten his whole boxing heavyweight career and retire within 5 years before making a transfer to mma(which he’s spoken about in the past).

[StockholmRam]

16 minutes ago, McLovin said:

Joshua’s changed my mind, 2 years ago I thought he was overrated and relied on nothing but his power. I thought that he was an ok boxer but nothing much apart and would be exposed in the latter rounds which is why I thought he’d be exposed against the likes of Parker, Klitchscho etc. I guess you could call me a Joshua hater then.  Now I think he’s the real deal. I can’t see anyone beating him. Fury a few years ago probably would be very close but I can’t ever see him ever getting back to that level. I can see Joshua going unbeaten his whole boxing heavyweight career and retire within 5 years before making a transfer to mma(which he’s spoken about in the past).

I think AJ actually learns from each fight he has and improves. 

[Smyth_18]

Followed AJ religiously from the olympics up to around the Klitschko fight. (his best performance)

Unfortunately i just can't stand him anymore or the atmosphere around his fights. People who don't have a care for boxing from week to week suddenly become experts and seem to brag by posting pictures of their TV. 'look im a big boxing fan because i've paid 20 quid to watch Anthony Joshua.'
Not to mention the amount of girls giving my phone water damage whenever his face appears.

Unfortunately, i don't think he is 'real' anymore. Everything he posts is in paid partnership with something which isn't in line with his ethos of 'staying humble'.

 

I really want to like him as he is brilliant. But for many reasons which aren't always his own doing, i can't stand him anymore.

 

[Day]

1 hour ago, Smyth_18 said:

Followed AJ religiously from the olympics up to around the Klitschko fight. (his best performance)

Unfortunately i just can't stand him anymore or the atmosphere around his fights. People who don't have a care for boxing from week to week suddenly become experts and seem to brag by posting pictures of their TV. 'look im a big boxing fan because i've paid 20 quid to watch Anthony Joshua.'
Not to mention the amount of girls giving my phone water damage whenever his face appears.

Unfortunately, i don't think he is 'real' anymore. Everything he posts is in paid partnership with something which isn't in line with his ethos of 'staying humble'.

 

I really want to like him as he is brilliant. But for many reasons which aren't always his own doing, i can't stand him anymore.

 

Most of that is not AJ's fault though, you can't control which "fans" follow your fights, he's become popular due to his success which surely you should be pleased for him right?

All sounds a bit hipsterish, the guy in his 20s that had the beard and drank obscure real ales before anyone else, now it's become mainstream no longer seen to be cool. 

The paid promotions bit, maybe I can see your point about staying humble, but can you not do that whilst reaping the financial rewards? Doesn't he still live at home with his mum despite all the money he's made?

[BaaLocks]

12 minutes ago, David said:

The paid promotions bit, maybe I can see your point about staying humble, but can you not do that whilst reaping the financial rewards? Doesn't he still live at home with his mum despite all the money he's made?

You would hope so, what else is he supposed to do - let others get rich off his name, refuse £XXm to wear some headphones in a press conference? Nope - he has to maximise the opportunity coz that's the name of the game that is capitalism. What he does at the end is a different story but that's his to decide, not leaving it in the hands of others. Maybe he'll keep it real and go all Bill Gates on us instead of getting a solid ruby jacuzzi.

AJ sounded a bit tired of it all, for the first time, in the run up to this fight and particualrly in the post fight conference. You can't blame him, he's just knocked over the number three in the world with a classy display of how to dismantle a very threatening opponent and all he gets asked is whether he would fight Fury or Wilder. Jeez!

[Alph]

7 hours ago, Smyth_18 said:

Followed AJ religiously from the olympics up to around the Klitschko fight. (his best performance)

Unfortunately i just can't stand him anymore or the atmosphere around his fights. People who don't have a care for boxing from week to week suddenly become experts and seem to brag by posting pictures of their TV. 'look im a big boxing fan because i've paid 20 quid to watch Anthony Joshua.'
Not to mention the amount of girls giving my phone water damage whenever his face appears.

Unfortunately, i don't think he is 'real' anymore. Everything he posts is in paid partnership with something which isn't in line with his ethos of 'staying humble'.

 

I really want to like him as he is brilliant. But for many reasons which aren't always his own doing, i can't stand him anymore.

 

I get what you're saying but like @David says, a lot of it is chucked at him whether he likes it or not.

He's also said in the past that while he doesn't enjoy the media stuff that much it does serve to inspire people which he does like. 

I get more pissed off at the celebs who are only hanging around him while he's hot and the fans that think he's some God that knocks everyone out. 

Where was Jamie Redknapp when he fought Gary Cornish in what was supposed to have a bit of risk involved. Or Kevin Johnson who was supposed to give him rounds? 

He is a walking advert but he does admit that it's all about drawing attention to the boxing world. It's worked a treat. 

And what I really like is when he does deviate from the poster boy image and when he gets pulled up on it he quite rightly reminds people that he's a fighter. He fights for a living. It's not a game for choir boys. 

 

[Alph]

8 hours ago, McLovin said:

Joshua’s changed my mind, 2 years ago I thought he was overrated and relied on nothing but his power. I thought that he was an ok boxer but nothing much apart and would be exposed in the latter rounds which is why I thought he’d be exposed against the likes of Parker, Klitchscho etc. I guess you could call me a Joshua hater then.  Now I think he’s the real deal. I can’t see anyone beating him. Fury a few years ago probably would be very close but I can’t ever see him ever getting back to that level. I can see Joshua going unbeaten his whole boxing heavyweight career and retire within 5 years before making a transfer to mma(which he’s spoken about in the past).

It will be very tough for him to remain unbeaten in that division. Lennox Lewis lost to Hasim Rahman in a routine defence that had next to no appeal. 

He has improved massively since Wlad though. He improves a lot after tough fights. Wilder should have taken him on by now because he's learning so much and he's gone well beyond the powerful counter puncher we saw 3 years ago. He isn't reckless with his energy since the Wlad fight. He's getting hit a lot now. He developed a good jab after the Wlad and Takam fights. He started changing up his guard against Povetkin. You can guarantee that they'll get to work on his footwork after this fight too. He got caught feet planted a couple of times and it's provided the perfect lesson for the Wilder fight. 

At 22 fights old and 28 years of age he will dominate the division. Whether he takes a couple of defeats on the chin or not who knows. But it doesn't look like he's going to be far from world title fights for a very long time. Sure to leave a Lennox Lewis impact at bare minimum 

 

[Bris Vegas]

It’s not so much that I don’t rate AJ, I just think he’s in a really weak era.

AJ for me isn’t even a top 10 pound for pount fighter in the world, yet he’s absolutely cruising the heavyweight division making £20 million per fight and he’s fighting boxers who don’t make top 30 pound for pound.

You look around the divisions and the heavyweight is one of the least competitive.

You have an abundance of world class fighters between 126 and 160 who can all move up or down in weights to make superfights.

But they don’t get anywhere near as much attention as a decent heavyweight cruising past average opponents in comparison.

Imagine making a super8 with welterweights. Crawford, Thurman, Spence, Danny Garcia, Shawn Porter, Brook, Khan, Pacquiao... Every fight would be a must-watch. Epic.

Who would watch a super8 heavyweights? Who would even make it in there? The standard would be poor.

[StockholmRam]

112 pages in and Im not sure if this has been done on the thread before. If it has then ignore me... If it hasnt then feel free to join in.

Favourite boxer of our/your lifetime. 

Thomas Hearns for me. Wow..exciting crazy fighter.

[Dale The Ram]

4 hours ago, StockholmRam said:

112 pages in and Im not sure if this has been done on the thread before. If it has then ignore me... If it hasnt then feel free to join in.

Favourite boxer of our/your lifetime. 

Thomas Hearns for me. Wow..exciting crazy fighter.

Joe Calzaghe

Brilliant to watch and seems a great guy. Very underrated imo.

[Alph]

6 hours ago, StockholmRam said:

112 pages in and Im not sure if this has been done on the thread before. If it has then ignore me... If it hasnt then feel free to join in.

Favourite boxer of our/your lifetime. 

Thomas Hearns for me. Wow..exciting crazy fighter.

Joe Calazaghe here too. 

I've never seen the Hagler v Hearns fight but it's supposed to be a mad one isn't it? 

[Bris Vegas]

I’m 29, so I was a bit young to really appreciate the likes of Julio Cesar Chavez, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis... Even Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather in their early years rising up.

I don’t really have a standout favourite fighter. I appreciate the styles of many boxers, and I try to watch all of certain fighters’ fights live as they generally entertained.

The likes of GGG, Thurman, Canelo, Lomachenko, Mikey Garcia, Groves, Martinez, Cotto.

If I had to say one though I’d probably go for GGG.

The best boxer I’ve seen in my lifetime in terms of dominance is Andre Ward. That guy was leagues above anything else at 168.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Bris Vegas

[Alph]

9 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

It’s not so much that I don’t rate AJ, I just think he’s in a really weak era.

AJ for me isn’t even a top 10 pound for pount fighter in the world, yet he’s absolutely cruising the heavyweight division making £20 million per fight and he’s fighting boxers who don’t make top 30 pound for pound.

You look around the divisions and the heavyweight is one of the least competitive.

You have an abundance of world class fighters between 126 and 160 who can all move up or down in weights to make superfights.

But they don’t get anywhere near as much attention as a decent heavyweight cruising past average opponents in comparison.

Imagine making a super8 with welterweights. Crawford, Thurman, Spence, Danny Garcia, Shawn Porter, Brook, Khan, Pacquiao... Every fight would be a must-watch. Epic.

Who would watch a super8 heavyweights? Who would even make it in there? The standard would be poor.

Hasn't it always been that way though? What era could a 6ft 6 fighter drop down to fight the best light heavyweights and Cruiserweights. 

The lowest weights have always had the most competition haven't they? I mean even the great Ali was 16+ st. Imagine him trying to strip down to clean up at light heavy or even cruiser. 

They're too big.