May Contain Nuts Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 But he's NOT the best RM in the league and if we can get one who's better then great... That seems to be what Nigel's looking to do... Whilst I'm all for looking to improve ANY position in the team if the opportunity arrises, the problem is one of prioritisation. Not having a more direct right winger was not the difference between scraping 10th and making the top 6 last season, it won't be the difference this season. If bringing one in comes at the cost of NOT improving elsewhere then essentially it's pointless. Ideally we wouldn't want to put Russell on the wing, but I'd rather do that, put Sammon up front with Martin and bring in a dominant centre back than to simply bring in a new right winger and fail to bolster our defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 How many of the 93% have the financial clout to just go out, buy and pay the salary of a CB? It is the easiest thing in the World to say they should be spending money here and spending it there. It was a ridiculous poll with options that looked as if they had been dreamed up by a five year old. I suspect that if NC had no budget to balance he would also get another CB. But isn't the top 6 the aim this season? I'm not saying a centre back would make us good enough to reach that and there is no guarantees either way. But Clough/The Board.. whatever, not going out and getting the required quality to meet our goals and ambitions is going to result in heavy criticism this season because of the pressures they put on theirselves early doors. I expect nothing more than a top half finish in fairness, but some people won't be happy with that - this season will be the strongest call for Cloughs head if we don't have a successful year and it's horrible in a way, because he isn't going to get another job at this level after his showing here and he deserves better than that. It's either the board throwing Clough into the lions den and not giving him the tools to succeed or he genuinely believes what he is saying about being 'happy' with the squad in place. He never struck me as a man who would let other people put words in his mouth either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I was agreeing with you Sorry, yeh I know... I was clarifying my point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 The opening sentence on the article in the DET is :- A RIGHT-SIDED midfielder is on Derby County’s wanted list as they search the emergency loan market. People always harp on about Clough being honest and telling it as it is, so I think you're wrong. If this was a loan with a view, he would have done it last weekend (or before), but now as he's only got the emergency loan system available, he won't be able to get a loan from now until end of season. As others have pointed out, it's madness to be looking to improve somewhere we have competent options, when there are areas with one option only, that need addressing. Maybe... I agree that I would rather he'd signed someone earlier... But he said 2/3 times over the summer (and August) that we don't operate in the transfer windows like everyone else... And he said it again just before the window shuts... As people have said this has allowed us to be in a position where players are now stuck at clubs who don't want them... Will be quite a few decent players out there sitting unused we could pick up for a steal in Jan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Also, if we decide we are having a more direct winger again we'll probably end up completely ditching the diamond and any plans we had surrounding it, just like we've ditched various plans in the past and ended up with a surplus of players not suited to the formation we decided to play! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleEatonRam Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 This, People moan that of some our players aren't top 6 quality, but when he look at replacing those players, people moan that Clough doesn't rate them or doesn't like them. Damned if he doesn't ad damned if he does. It's a fair point I guess, but in the case of Jacobs and Coutts they've only been here for a year. Coutts played RM for pretty much the whole of last season and Nigel hardly uttered a word about being dissatisfied with how he played. Jacobs cost 400k in a fairly protracted transfer, which suggests Clough was very keen on him, and in both cases he issued the usual "he's been on our radar for some time and we're delighted" line. I know he's hardly likely to say "he's crap and we don't rate him", but with almost every player brought in comes the suggestion that Clough has had his eye on him for a while. If so, why does he suddenly want someone better after one season? Clough tends to go for players between the ages of around 20-26, which seems to indicate he's after them for the long term. So with this in mind, why does the board have to keep funding his requests for replacements after about a year? I'm not having a massive go, just pointing out that if there wasn't so much 'dead wood' on the wage bill that Clough no longer seems to want merely 12-18 months after having signed them that the wage bill might not be such an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott129 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I actually think this makes a lot of sense. I've never been a fan of Coutts at RM tbh. He doesn't have the pace or ability to get past people and it's so obvious that he's naturally a CM. To move him into the centre and then bring in a new winger kills two birds with one stone for me. It competently covers the central midfield and also improves a position that I don't think we're that good in (people had been calling for a new RM even before Jeff's injury). And yes, we also need a CB. I'm going to err on the side of optimism here and say that I still think we'll bring one in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOB BIGGS Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Also, if we decide we are having a more direct winger again we'll probably end up completely ditching the diamond and any plans we had surrounding it, just like we've ditched various plans in the past and ended up with a surplus of players not suited to the formation we decided to play! Not disageeing with you but will this formation work at home with present personnel? It looks tidy away but much of our success at home last season came from the Brayford/Coutts partnership. It's asking a lot of our Right Back, whoever plays there, to provide similar success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I'm not having a massive go, just pointing out that if there wasn't so much 'dead wood' on the wage bill that Clough no longer seems to want merely 12-18 months after having signed them that the wage bill might not be such an issue. We have one of the smallest squads in the championship... Not a lot of 'dead wood' there... Everyone complains about not having enough CBs... We currently have 3 fit and 2 injured... whereas we have only 1 RM (Bavies)... Calling Coutts a RM is like calling Eustace a CB... sure he can play there, but it's not his best position and you're better off getting someone who actually plays the position better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mostyn6 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 We have one of the smallest squads in the championship... Not a lot of 'dead wood' there... Everyone complains about not having enough CBs... We currently have 3 fit and 2 injured... whereas we have only 1 RM (Bavies)... Calling Coutts a RM is like calling Eustace a CB... sure he can play there, but it's not his best position and you're better off getting someone who actually plays the position better... come off it cheron! Clough is a master of not using players in their natural position, so why make excuses for him. He's probably only ever bought one out and out right winger, Lee Croft, but has used Hughes, Barazite, Cywka, Davies, Green and numerous others out there, whilst bombing out Croft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Not disageeing with you but will this formation work at home with present personnel? It looks tidy away but much of our success at home last season came from the Brayford/Coutts partnership. It's asking a lot of our Right Back, whoever plays there, to provide similar success. Honestly I don't know. The home games we've played so far were against teams I'd fully expect us to struggle against, as is the next one vs Reading. I'd like to think us capable of beating at least 12 teams* again this season to match last seasons' win total, regardless of formation - the test of the diamond will be to see whether we still put teams I expect us to beat to the sword, but we've not played any of them at home yet so it hasn't been tested. It's even too early to say whether the diamond has actually worked away (though early signs are good) or whether it's just the circumstance and quality of opposition. My problem isn't necessarily that we may 'ditch the diamond', just that we fail to have a consistent strategy and end up a disorganised mess away from home. *(I expect us to win a few home matches we didn't last year, such as ipswich and Sheff Weds, but lose some we won last year such as Leicester (already done) and Watford) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsmini Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Mr Clough said Coutts and Eustace are CM's and can replace Hendrick with either of those two. We need a RM which he said in the DET article. Hopefully this will be more of a winger than a defence RM, as we are struggling for width at the moment. Ben Davies should perhaps be given the chance to fill this role. Jacobs is more of a LM. Now I will sit back and wait for the next anti Derby and anti Clough loaded thread to come along!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSheep Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 There's always next year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 I would try and tempt Beckham out of retirement, didn't he play for free at PSG? might help shift more of these shirts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Erm... Not to put any doubts into what mostyn is saying but... Couldn't it be the case that, even though Coutts played well last season, and Bavies has been a trooper they might want an even better RM? Not saying that's the case bit Nigel brought Coutts in originally as a backup CM to Hendrick and Bryson... And he's made it very clear Bavies is a squad player not first choice... Maybe he's decided he wants to like, improve the squad? By getting a better RM in? With a view to buying in Jan? Would that be a bad thing? In which case though Clough should be offloading the players that are no longer considered good enough to even make the squad. Unless you are suggesting that we just add more and more to the squad every time Clough identifies a better player? If we are going to go down that route just give Redknapp the job now and we will be out of this division in no time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleEatonRam Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 We have one of the smallest squads in the championship... Not a lot of 'dead wood' there... Everyone complains about not having enough CBs... We currently have 3 fit and 2 injured... whereas we have only 1 RM (Bavies)... Calling Coutts a RM is like calling Eustace a CB... sure he can play there, but it's not his best position and you're better off getting someone who actually plays the position better... Clough evidently thinks Coutts is a more than capable RM though - he played something like 40 games in that position last season, and you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times he's played him at CM. Perhaps 'dead wood' was the wrong choice of term, but there certainly are players who have been bought in at the request of the management who could definitely take up the spaces we have in the starting eleven who find themselves on the fringes of the squad despite being fairly recently signed. In fairness, Clough has never (to my knowledge) complained about a lack of funds available, but there are quite a few fans whose go-to position is to blame the board for never getting Nigel players, when they quite clearly do but he then decideds he's not keen on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisse Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 How hard is it to find a good loanee ? I always do in FM. And if I don't I just resign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 come off it cheron! Clough is a master of not using players in their natural position, so why make excuses for him. He's probably only ever bought one out and out right winger, Lee Croft, but has used Hughes, Barazite, Cywka, Davies, Green and numerous others out there, whilst bombing out Croft. He does tend to buy players who can play more than one role... But I'm questioning why everyone is complaining about a) us wanting to make a signing a b) in a position where we are relatively light This is a position btw which many many people on this board wanted someone in for over the summer... In which case though Clough should be offloading the players that are no longer considered good enough to even make the squad. Unless you are suggesting that we just add more and more to the squad every time Clough identifies a better player? If we are going to go down that route just give Redknapp the job now and we will be out of this division in no time. I believe that's what he's been doing with Tyson et al... offloading... we still have a really small squad... I'm NOT btw suggesting that Coutts is rubbish... he isn't... I like him as a RM... but if we could get someone EVEN BETTER surely this is a good thing? Clough evidently thinks Coutts is a more than capable RM though - he played something like 40 games in that position last season, and you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times he's played him at CM. Perhaps 'dead wood' was the wrong choice of term, but there certainly are players who have been bought in at the request of the management who could definitely take up the spaces we have in the starting eleven who find themselves on the fringes of the squad despite being fairly recently signed. Coutts played a lot at RM last season because we didn't have a better option... He's better there than Bavies IMO and that's all your options really... A case of needs must rather than wanting him to be first choice at RM... IF we could get a BETTER RM how is that a bad thing?!?!?!?! And finally, we now have plenty of what I would consider decent back-up... which is a good thing if we get injuries... but players like Jacobs is a young'un still... I rate him... But would have thought as long as he's happy we'll be waiting to see how he develops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Teale Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Ward played right mid at sheff utd. Couldn't he play that side and Jacobs the left? Or is that to attacking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 The point about the deadwood, and the wage budge is absolutely spot on. We've got 2 players now who is deemed 'deadwood' by Clough, rightly or wrongly that is not the case here. We also have one of the smallest (if not the smallest squad) in the league. Relatively young side, with no 'superstars' yet we have a problem with our wagebill? It's ridiculous!! I'd bet on Jamie Ward not being here next season - I imagine that is where next seasons budget is going to come from. Might sound ridiculous, but when Brayford was sold and people said 'that's where the russell money has come from' I thought that was ridiculous. Mental team. It could go very bad for Derby this season in terms of fan unrest, if Forest do well this usually frustrates and angers people (i know it does me) and it's because they've managed to some how spend money despite the FFP. I can't wait for their big fine, points deduction, transfer embargo...etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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