AndyinLiverpool Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 So we're 7 points off relegation, teams below us have games in hand, we have Leicester and Leeds coming up, probably sending us closer to that relegation spot, but we're not supposed to talk about it? It's the possibility that dare not speak its name. Or perhaps the grey trumpeting possibility in the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozza Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 How come it says "You have already voted in this poll" when I bloody well haven't!!! Definitely IN !!!! bet you had a look first, that counts as your vote..sowweee.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 This debate is polarised. Anti-Clough posters can never accept that the man has got some things right and the Clough fans see him as infallible. Not met anyone who thinks he's infallible Bunny. That's a bit of a red herring thrown up by the haters. It seems to me that if you don't hate Clough then you must be a Clough lover in their eyes! There is no room for anyone in between......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froggg Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Clough in.......but give him a few bob to spend in the summer(without selling our assets) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DcfcMadness12 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 If we win the next two we will be 8th/9th loose the next two and probably 17th/18th.Leicester will be probably be the most important this season as we need to win it but they are still trying to get promoted and lost aswell yesterday so will be told that they have to win this to still have a shout.Ill bring in Rhys Sharpe and Kwame Thomas and put them on the bench.Martin and Sammon are working well together so would put Ward out wide and put Jacobs on the right and have coutts and Hendrick in the middle.Then Bryso on the bench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 On balance I think Clough's positives significantly outweigh his negatives. No-one can think he's 100% great or 0% great, they're both clearly bizarre positions to take! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Bring in Rhys Sharpe and Kwame Thomas and put them on the bench.Martin and Sammon are working well together so would put Ward out wide and put Jacobs on the right and have coutts and Hendrick in the middle.Then Bryso on the bench Firstly I think Ward will be injured. The bench should be the least of our worries but I agree someone with pace i.e Rhys Sharpe would be a better sub than Conor Doyle. If bryson is fit he will start, Bryson is a player that will either start or not make the squad there's no half measures when it comes to him playing. I would expect to see this if Bryson can play. Legzdins Gjokak Keogh Buxton Roberts Coutts Hendrick Bryson Forsyth Martin Sammon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 This debate is polarised. Anti-Clough posters can never accept that the man has got some things right and the Clough fans see him as infallible. The truth is somewhere in between, but unfortunately, the truth is closer to one side than the other for me. The good stuff: - stopping us from dropping into L1 (well, I think this is a good thing...) - getting rid of the Jewell crap and instilling a culture of players who are genuinely giving their best all the time - making us ever-so-slightly better, on half the wage bill (I don't think that should be taken away from him by anyone) - excellent records against two of the most important sides - youth intergration into the first team giving the Academy some real credibility again The bad stuff: - the inability to get any sort of momentum going throughout a season - our attrocious away form and negative outlook on away games which really takes the biscuit to those fans who pay the most money to go and see us all over the country - tactics. He's clearly not reactive enough to what other teams do, and when we become very rigid in formations and tactics which take ages to vanish before the management decides it's not good enough - the lack of quality in our team. With Ward and Hughes out, what players are left in the side worth paying to watch? - tunnel vision scouting. I have no doubt that we pick up very good players in this country - but could we not exploit the cheap-and-cheerful European market at the same time? It's not like it's either/or - the fact that the same on-pitch issues spring up every season, no matter who plays. This slump is the same story for the fourth time, and it's getting rather tedious - injuries. Why does this effect us every single season? Why are we signing players we know are injury prone? Why are players signing for us with almost no major injuries to their name suddenly plagued by them the moment they join Derby County? It's another campaign blighted by injury, it's no longer luck - the post-Jim Smith losing culture still has not been eradicated In short, Clough probably was the right man for the job in 2009. We didn't need a master tactician or even somebody who knew how to build a top 6 side - we just needed a "yes man" who would quietly get on with cutting the wage bill down and keeping us afloat and giving the Academy a higher profile. This job is done. The next bit is getting out of this league. I've seen little evidence to suggest the current management have what it takes to make that happen. Excellent post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DcfcMadness12 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Firstly I think Ward will be injured. The bench should be the least of our worries but I agree someone with pace i.e Rhys Sharpe would be a better sub than Conor Doyle. If bryson is fit he will start, Bryson is a player that will either start or not make the squad there's no half measures when it comes to him playing. I would expect to see this if Bryson can play. Legzdins Gjokak Keogh Buxton Roberts Coutts Hendrick Bryson Forsyth Martin Sammon if buxton plays at centre back we will loose.OB and Fielding should come in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 if buxton plays at centre back we will loose.OB and Fielding should come in. but its Keogh making the mistakes not Buxton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duracell Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Not met anyone who thinks he's infallible Bunny. That's a bit of a red herring thrown up by the haters. It seems to me that if you don't hate Clough then you must be a Clough lover in their eyes! There is no room for anyone in between......... I was simplifying the two ends of the scale dramatically, yes, but there needs to be some room in between if discussions will come to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I was simplifying the two ends of the scale dramatically, yes, but there needs to be some room in between if discussions will come to anything. heres a balanced argument" in my left hand i have some paper, in my right hand I have some paper. the paper in my left has Clough out written on it. The paper in my right hand has clough out written on it i feel pretty balanced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 if buxton plays at centre back we will loose.OB and Fielding should come in. Did you go to Birmingham game? Keogh was at fault for 2 out of the 3 goals. Buxton dealt with a 6 foot 8 striker very well and made hardly any mistakes. There is just this negative attitude toward Buxton because people can target him saying oh he came from Burton. Honestly his performance was very good. As for the goalkeeper, you're fighting a losing battle. Fielding is on a much higher wage than Legzdins and they are very similar in standard. Fielding is all but gone in my opinion some championship club will buy him. Better off giving Legzdins a game and improving his game for next season. In fairness he learnt from his Cardiff error and came and collected a lot more vs Birmingham. Couldn't have done anything about the first and last goal and the redmond shot should not have been there in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 This debate is polarised. Anti-Clough posters can never accept that the man has got some things right and the Clough fans see him as infallible. The truth is somewhere in between, but unfortunately, the truth is closer to one side than the other for me. The good stuff: - stopping us from dropping into L1 (well, I think this is a good thing...) - getting rid of the Jewell crap and instilling a culture of players who are genuinely giving their best all the time - making us ever-so-slightly better, on half the wage bill (I don't think that should be taken away from him by anyone) - excellent records against two of the most important sides - youth intergration into the first team giving the Academy some real credibility again The bad stuff: - the inability to get any sort of momentum going throughout a season - our attrocious away form and negative outlook on away games which really takes the biscuit to those fans who pay the most money to go and see us all over the country - tactics. He's clearly not reactive enough to what other teams do, and when we become very rigid in formations and tactics which take ages to vanish before the management decides it's not good enough - the lack of quality in our team. With Ward and Hughes out, what players are left in the side worth paying to watch? - tunnel vision scouting. I have no doubt that we pick up very good players in this country - but could we not exploit the cheap-and-cheerful European market at the same time? It's not like it's either/or - the fact that the same on-pitch issues spring up every season, no matter who plays. This slump is the same story for the fourth time, and it's getting rather tedious - injuries. Why does this effect us every single season? Why are we signing players we know are injury prone? Why are players signing for us with almost no major injuries to their name suddenly plagued by them the moment they join Derby County? It's another campaign blighted by injury, it's no longer luck - the post-Jim Smith losing culture still has not been eradicated In short, Clough probably was the right man for the job in 2009. We didn't need a master tactician or even somebody who knew how to build a top 6 side - we just needed a "yes man" who would quietly get on with cutting the wage bill down and keeping us afloat and giving the Academy a higher profile. This job is done. The next bit is getting out of this league. I've seen little evidence to suggest the current management have what it takes to make that happen. You forgot deplorable man-management and motivational skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DcfcMadness12 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Did you go to Birmingham game? Keogh was at fault for 2 out of the 3 goals. Buxton dealt with a 6 foot 8 striker very well and made hardly any mistakes. There is just this negative attitude toward Buxton because people can target him saying oh he came from Burton. Honestly his performance was very good. As for the goalkeeper, you're fighting a losing battle. Fielding is on a much higher wage than Legzdins and they are very similar in standard. Fielding is all but gone in my opinion some championship club will buy him. Better off giving Legzdins a game and improving his game for next season. In fairness he learnt from his Cardiff error and came and collected a lot more vs Birmingham. Couldn't have done anything about the first and last goal and the redmond shot should not have been there in the first place. Keogh got caught out numerous times aswell but the teams target Buxton with over the top balls.From what I could see Valetine was the best defender.Put him in the middle and Keogh at right back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobram Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Does anyone genuinely think we're going to get relagated? Its a possability. Think about it. We very very rarely get anything away from home. We're in a poor run of form. We have Leicester, Leeds, Blackburn and Blackpool all to go. Peterborough and Bristol have started to pick up points...It's crept up on us and now we are in a relegation battle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Keogh got caught out numerous times aswell My post said that Keogh was the one who got caught out??? From what I could see Valetine was the best defender.Put him in the middle and Keogh at right back Let Keogh redeem himself, Gjokak was very good at right back. If you wanted to give Keogh a hard time for his performance, drop him then play Gjokak at centre back and play freeman right back who has returned from injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey B Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Is it the players? Is a comment thats been mentioned on this thread & its an interesting question....In my opinion the players we are of a mindset to go for are. 1) Rejects at their previous clubs e.g Sammon, Coutts, with potentially Martin & Forsythe to be added to the list. 2) Players who are used to a losing mentality e.g Keogh relegated out of champ, Coutts has been relegated from champ at least once, Jacobs almost relegated out of the league with Northampton, O Connor relegated out of champs 3) Scottish league players used to an easier league 4) Young players with potential who may or may not come good. Keogh is an ok defender, who looked good in a struggling team but so did Croft at Norwich...if he had the quality required to be a defensive organiser at the top level of the championship, then I believe Cardiff would of out bid us...he is a decent number 2 centre back but a poor replacement for Shackell...he was in my opinion a panic buy to counteract the negativity around the Shackell sale.. Now I believe that our purchasing is based on our pay regime & believe that these are the only type of players that Clough is able to target & that he is doing an ok job against teams that have far superior squads..if he is given money & fails then fair enough, but at present he is left trying to make a sows ear budget into a silk purse team..In my opinion.. My biggest concern this summer is that the board will cash in on our best players & the money invested in further lucky bag signings.. I agree to a point. All the players mentioned have come from negative situations with their old club or league. The problem is that Clough simply goes out to not lose a game which means that drawing is considered a result, so these players don't get used to having a winning mentality around the club, and confidence will not build. This is the mentality created by the management, so if we want things to change then the manager and coaches need to change. Yes, Derbys pay structure is the 3rd lowest in the league, but players would come to derby for the money on offer and the great home support. Derby is a big club with good history, but that's not what will move this club forward. Derby will lose 3 or maybe 4 1st team players in the summer, so we will not keep the squad together. Clough does not manage agents and players very well at all and it makes it very difficult for players to deal with club and management, so it's inevitable that they will go at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DcfcMadness12 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Might aswell play some youngsters we are at home and hopefully a good crowd can help them through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notts_ram Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Yes, Derbys pay structure is the 3rd lowest in the league How do you know that information, what are your sources Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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