Ramarena Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Clough has been chasing Waghorn for years, Waghorn would start trust. We tried to get him on loan when Sven was manager, that was some time ago now. He has had a few injuries but he has quality. Seen some games for the england under 21s and he knows where the goal is. Quality in the air and has pace. Cant get a game at Leicester its no surprise he hasnt signed a new deal. When can we make a formal approach to sign him on a pre contract? Now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobram Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Clough has been chasing Waghorn for years, Waghorn would start trust. We tried to get him on loan when Sven was manager, that was some time ago now. He has had a few injuries but he has quality. Seen some games for the england under 21s and he knows where the goal is. Quality in the air and has pace. Cant get a game at Leicester its no surprise he hasnt signed a new deal. When can we make a formal approach to sign him on a pre contract? Think its in june he can accept the contract but could talk to him now if they want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaddesdenRam Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Now Think its in june he can accept the contract but could talk to him now if they want I bet we are talking to his representatives then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 We didn't spend 2 million last summer because we made sales as well and let high earner Green leave on a free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 ...rigid as a coach, we're we complaining about him experimenting too much with players positions before? In fact, the most common complain I hear about him is that he tinkers with things that are working too much. I wasn't complaining. Gjokaj is at right back because he doesn't have anyone else he trusts there available at present. We have two frontline forwards so he sticks them together even though they don't complement each other at all. We had pace upfront and let it go out on loan. When we start to play badly, as we did yesterday in the second half, there is no change of tactics or personnel. It's like we just hope it will get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Out anybody in couldn't do any worse At least there'll be the consolation that,should you get your way,you and 83 others will have no cause to moan in future if things go wrong.You call for a dismissal in the sure knowledge that you'll have absolutely no influence on the choice of a successor,and therefore if you're willing to advocate a course of action in these circumstances,you must live with any outcome without complaint. Why have I picked on your post? Simply because you say nobody could do any worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 At least there'll be the consolation that,should you get your way,you and 83 others will have no cause to moan in future if things go wrong.You call for a dismissal in the sure knowledge that you'll have absolutely no influence on the choice of a successor,and therefore if you're willing to advocate a course of action in these circumstances,you must live with any outcome without complaint. Why have I picked on your post? Simply because you say nobody could do any worse. fair comment but i will offer my opinion when i see fit too. my opinion is he isn't up the job - offering an opinion isn't complaining Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramarena Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I bet we are talking to his representatives then. Maybe. I like Waghorn, but there is a big problem with him. His hamstrings are made of glass, another Jamie Ward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 fair comment but i will offer my opinion when i see fit too. my opinion is he isn't up the job - offering an opinion isn't complaining Your opinion is that he isn't up to the job and should be replaced (blind).Your opinion is that nobody could do a worse job.If someone were to come in and do a worse job,the only valid opinion you could hold is that you were wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Maybe. I like Waghorn, but there is a big problem with him. His hamstrings are made of glass, another Jamie Ward. This is the big problem for me.Any quality we look at seems to come with some sort of baggage to get him within our overall price range.I've thought for a long time that we've been operating a policy based on false economies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smyth_18 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Met Nigel Clough today. Nice bloke.. Clough out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 He is a nice bloke. And he cares. I don't mind people wanting him gone but I'd like to think they can do it without hating the guy. He's a top fella. He likes Derby, he likes the place and the people and its not just another club to him. It has emotional ties. Some of the things said, well, there's no need. People can question his ability, that's fine, but not his desire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Your opinion is that he isn't up to the job and should be replaced (blind).Your opinion is that nobody could do a worse job.If someone were to come in and do a worse job,the only valid opinion you could hold is that you were wrong. opinions can be wrong - mine included Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 This debate is polarised. Anti-Clough posters can never accept that the man has got some things right and the Clough fans see him as infallible. The truth is somewhere in between, but unfortunately, the truth is closer to one side than the other for me. The good stuff: - stopping us from dropping into L1 (well, I think this is a good thing...) - getting rid of the Jewell crap and instilling a culture of players who are genuinely giving their best all the time - making us ever-so-slightly better, on half the wage bill (I don't think that should be taken away from him by anyone) - excellent records against two of the most important sides - youth intergration into the first team giving the Academy some real credibility again The bad stuff: - the inability to get any sort of momentum going throughout a season - our attrocious away form and negative outlook on away games which really takes the biscuit to those fans who pay the most money to go and see us all over the country - tactics. He's clearly not reactive enough to what other teams do, and when we become very rigid in formations and tactics which take ages to vanish before the management decides it's not good enough - the lack of quality in our team. With Ward and Hughes out, what players are left in the side worth paying to watch? - tunnel vision scouting. I have no doubt that we pick up very good players in this country - but could we not exploit the cheap-and-cheerful European market at the same time? It's not like it's either/or - the fact that the same on-pitch issues spring up every season, no matter who plays. This slump is the same story for the fourth time, and it's getting rather tedious - injuries. Why does this effect us every single season? Why are we signing players we know are injury prone? Why are players signing for us with almost no major injuries to their name suddenly plagued by them the moment they join Derby County? It's another campaign blighted by injury, it's no longer luck - the post-Jim Smith losing culture still has not been eradicated In short, Clough probably was the right man for the job in 2009. We didn't need a master tactician or even somebody who knew how to build a top 6 side - we just needed a "yes man" who would quietly get on with cutting the wage bill down and keeping us afloat and giving the Academy a higher profile. This job is done. The next bit is getting out of this league. I've seen little evidence to suggest the current management have what it takes to make that happen. I've seen plenty of arguments based on the 'Clough has taken us as far as we can go' line,Bunny.The big question is whether this is the case,or is it more to do with a policy of buying predominantly lower league players on low wages only getting you so far? Fans are frustrated and in such circumstances tend to lash out at the easiest target. I find it ironic that Clough talked of the Academy some time ago and expressed the hope that he'd be around long enough to be able to take advantage of the benefits.So here we are,on the cusp of being able to cash in and perhaps bring in the quality we need.I'm not 100% sure on Clough by any means,but I like to think I'm a fair person and would like to see him at least given the chance to benefit from his hard work.Bringing through youngsters,particularly at the age of some of ours,is no mean feat,and I don't think some realise just how hard it is to do this whilst keeping the ship afloat.We wouldn't have these saleable assets without the combination of a fine Academy staff and a manager willing to give youngsters an early chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearson Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Far from an incredible lack of patience, I think we have been incredibly patient Albert Not when you analyse it in a calm manner. Prior to the arrival of Clough this club was in dire straights. Our football was dire and we were in financial meltown. There is still work to be done on the financial side of things but on the pitch we are making excellent overall progress. We are playing neat and attractive football but unfortunately our performances are not earning there just rewards. Please don't let the curent run of poor results cloud the long term solid base which has been established. Now, more that ever, is the time for patience and support of the management. The silent majority who attend Pride Park, especially those with an appreciation of what the game is actually about, will eventually reap the rewards. Presently, it's a good time for a negative parasite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Not when you analyse it in a calm manner. Prior to the arrival of Clough this club was in dire straights. Our football was dire and we were in financial meltown. There is still work to be done on the financial side of things but on the pitch we are making excellent overall progress. We are playing neat and attractive football but unfortunately our performances are not earning there just rewards. Please don't let the curent run of poor results cloud the long term solid base which has been established. Now, more that ever, is the time for patience and support of the management. The silent majority who attend Pride Park, especially those with an appreciation of what the game is actually about, will eventually reap the rewards. Presently, it's a good time for a negative parasite Thank you for your glorious condescending manner. Our current run of form is awful. I hardly call this excellent progress on the pitch. I see nothing in what Clough has done to suggest next season will be anything different. Some spells of good results with good football and some awful runs leaving us somewhere midtable. No harm in saying he has tried his best but this is as far as he goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearson Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Thank you for your glorious condescending manner. Our current run of form is awful. I hardly call this excellent progress on the pitch. I see nothing in what Clough has done to suggest next season will be anything different. Some spells of good results with good football and some awful runs leaving us somewhere midtable. No harm in saying he has tried his best but this is as far as he goes. With the odd exception, do you agree that the football has still been good during the awful runs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eezzeetiger Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 we? Your a forest fan in the banter thread. did you forget? wum off back to the Dirty forest thread sunshine............. Whoops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I like Clough. Yes he may be stubborn, and at points, tactically inept but he has done a great job in stabilizing a club which was in freefall. As far as i'm concerned he is on a hiding to nothing in terms of the board and their levels of investment. The constant need to cut wages is our biggest downfall imo, i'd imagine we would be in a much healthier position if we had managed to have kept Davies, Green and Shackell. Give the bloke just that extra bit more in the transfer market and i could see us easily challenging at the top of the table. Finally as Alpha said, if Clough were to leave it would be **** if the fans hounded him out. The bloke loves Derby and is extremely passionate about both the club and the city, he doesn't deserve some of the personal **** i read on forums about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobram Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I like Clough. Yes he may be stubborn, and at points, tactically inept but he has done a great job in stabilizing a club which was in freefall. As far as i'm concerned he is on a hiding to nothing in terms of the board and their levels of investment. The constant need to cut wages is our biggest downfall imo, i'd imagine we would be in a much healthier position if we had managed to have kept Davies, Green and Shackell. Give the bloke just that extra bit more in the transfer market and i could see us easily challenging at the top of the table. Finally as Alpha said, if Clough were to leave it would be **** if the fans hounded him out. The bloke loves Derby and is extremely passionate about both the club and the city, he doesn't deserve some of the personal **** i read on forums about him. zzzzzzz. He had to stabilize the club because of the board and what they were offering him. Any manager who came would have had to lower wages and get non proven players in because we have no money. I admit he has done it well, and i am glad he has used the youth, but i dont think he can take us any further. Football is a results business and if you dont get them then you shouldn't be let off because of your name. I would also hate it if the fans drove him out, but time to move on, time for the board to toughen up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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