DCFCPhoenix Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 The greatest enemy that we have, and have always had is our incredible lack of patience. For once we are going about things patiently and we're building slowly, but people still can't ride through a series of bad results, regardless of the performances. We're our own enemy at times. So 4 years isn't being patient enough? I don't want to pay £500 a season to see out our 'long term project' while we slide down the league under and inept board and manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Daly Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Far from an incredible lack of patience, I think we have been incredibly patient Albert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 When was it you decided that Clough was not the right man for the job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCPhoenix Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 The season when we came 19th after finishing 14th the season before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackNwhites Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Not that patient then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 The greatest enemy that we have, and have always had is our incredible lack of patience. For once we are going about things patiently and we're building slowly, but people still can't ride through a series of bad results, regardless of the performances. We're our own enemy at times. Hardly true. In this modern age of football, Derby fans have shown an incredible amount of patience. The fact, as you so lovingly point out, that only 54% on here have said Clough out shows to me patience. Patience is admirable. But there comes a point when you have to say you have waited long enough, especially if you can't see a progress towards your goal. No one will know if someone can do a better job until Clough is given the boot. I would not even say sacking him would be a gamble right now. You can spend your life waiting for something to happen, or you can go out and chase it. 4 years in football is a long time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I agree that the majority of fans have been patient enough as well. I just don't agree that this is the time to get the most impatient we've ever been. It's a very poor set of results and it's put a really bad spin on the whole season. We need to snap out of it and we need to do it quickly. Hopefully we'll win our last 5 at home and the season will end up being ok with positives outweightng the fact we've gone on another stinking run again at the wrong time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 So 4 years isn't being patient enough? I don't want to pay £500 a season to see out our 'long term project' while we slide down the league under and inept board and manager.No, 4 years isn't long enough considering the circumstances, or any circumstances in fact. The state that the club came down in was a complete mess, and it only got worse after that first summer down. It was always going to take years to simply get us moving back in the right direction, particularly while bringing back down the wage bill. We've managed to bring the wage bill down and somehow improve the squad at the same time, and to be honest 4 seasons is hardly a long time. People like bringing Soton up when talking about promotion, so how did they do having been relegated in 2004-05:2005-06: Redknapp (until December), Burley: 12th place2006-07: Burley: 6th place, lost to Derby in the playoffs2007-08: Burley (until January), Gorman: 20th2008-09: Poortvliet (until January), Wotte: 23rd, Relegated (Note: Club went into Admin)2009-10: Pardew: 7th in League One (Note: Signed Ricki Lambert for ~£1 mil)2010-11: Pardew (until August), Adkins: 2nd in League One, Promoted2011-12: Adkins: 2nd, Promoted (Note: Sold Oxlade-Chamberlain for around £15 mil)2012-13: Adkins (until January), Pochettino: Currently 16th, relegation still possibleNow, to me that's not really comparable, although chopping and changing managers did eventually pay off, although they suffered relegation and a financial meltdown in the meantime, and only got promoted after selling a player for £15 mil.Patience is important sometimes, and we are making improvements. The issue is that when we're off form people get edgy very quickly. The blunt truth of the matter though is that we're in a much better position than we were in 2008-09, 2009-10 and 2010-11, and whilst we're now unlikely to beat our 2011-12 points total, we have shown improvements in some areas, despite showing some issues as well (most notably away from home. We are in a position though where a key addition as well as retaining our best players could see us push on. It wasn't long ago that the playoffs looked within striking distance, and whilst things have taken a turn for the worse, that is encouraging for next season as long as we can address several issues.Sometimes we just need to be patient, and to be honest, I'd much rather see us spend another 4 years plodding along in the midtable before finally making a real promotion push than 4 years of a playoff push, financial meltdown, relegation and back to back promotion, but that's just me. If we do go about things the right way as well, we should be stable enough to take the blow of being relegated from the Premier League should we go up, rather than what happened last time, but that's a debate for another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I agree that the majority of fans have been patient enough as well. I just don't agree that this is the time to get the most impatient we've ever been. It's a very poor set of results and it's put a really bad spin on the whole season. We need to snap out of it and we need to do it quickly. Hopefully we'll win our last 5 at home and the season will end up being ok with positives outweightng the fact we've gone on another stinking run again at the wrong time. I think you're right. The simple truth is our squad just isn't strong enough. We are down to the bare bones and have no quality, no width and no striking power. This has coincided with Keogh's loss of form (and bottle?).and Roberts' gradual decline (though he has been great for us). All this and doubts around our goalkeeper and we have the perfect storm. We can still play the ball around and look good in spells and the commitment is there, but until we get players fit again we are in for some tough viewing, including Friday. On Clough, I just wish he wasn't so rigid in his approach. He's not exactly inspired as a coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 I think you're right. The simple truth is our squad just isn't strong enough. We are down to the bare bones and have no quality, no width and no striking power. This has coincided with Keogh's loss of form (and bottle?).and Roberts' gradual decline (though he has been great for us). All this and doubts around our goalkeeper and we have the perfect storm. We can still play the ball around and look good in spells and the commitment is there, but until we get players fit again we are in for some tough viewing, including Friday. On Clough, I just wish he wasn't so rigid in his approach. He's not exactly inspired as a coach....rigid as a coach, we're we complaining about him experimenting too much with players positions before?In fact, the most common complain I hear about him is that he tinkers with things that are working too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCPhoenix Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 No, 4 years isn't long enough considering the circumstances, or any circumstances in fact. The state that the club came down in was a complete mess, and it only got worse after that first summer down. It was always going to take years to simply get us moving back in the right direction, particularly while bringing back down the wage bill. We've managed to bring the wage bill down and somehow improve the squad at the same time, and to be honest 4 seasons is hardly a long time. People like bringing Soton up when talking about promotion, so how did they do having been relegated in 2004-05:2005-06: Redknapp (until December), Burley: 12th place2006-07: Burley: 6th place, lost to Derby in the playoffs2007-08: Burley (until January), Gorman: 20th2008-09: Poortvliet (until January), Wotte: 23rd, Relegated (Note: Club went into Admin)2009-10: Pardew: 7th in League One (Note: Signed Ricki Lambert for ~£1 mil)2010-11: Pardew (until August), Adkins: 2nd in League One, Promoted2011-12: Adkins: 2nd, Promoted (Note: Sold Oxlade-Chamberlain for around £15 mil)2012-13: Adkins (until January), Pochettino: Currently 16th, relegation still possibleNow, to me that's not really comparable, although chopping and changing managers did eventually pay off, although they suffered relegation and a financial meltdown in the meantime, and only got promoted after selling a player for £15 mil.Patience is important sometimes, and we are making improvements. The issue is that when we're off form people get edgy very quickly. The blunt truth of the matter though is that we're in a much better position than we were in 2008-09, 2009-10 and 2010-11, and whilst we're now unlikely to beat our 2011-12 points total, we have shown improvements in some areas, despite showing some issues as well (most notably away from home. We are in a position though where a key addition as well as retaining our best players could see us push on. It wasn't long ago that the playoffs looked within striking distance, and whilst things have taken a turn for the worse, that is encouraging for next season as long as we can address several issues.Sometimes we just need to be patient, and to be honest, I'd much rather see us spend another 4 years plodding along in the midtable before finally making a real promotion push than 4 years of a playoff push, financial meltdown, relegation and back to back promotion, but that's just me. If we do go about things the right way as well, we should be stable enough to take the blow of being relegated from the Premier League should we go up, rather than what happened last time, but that's a debate for another day. Maybe you'll change your mind if we go down, which with us being 7 points from bottom with other team with games in hand and us losing against teams like Birmingham and Peterbrough I'm hoping we don't mess things up like last season we lost our last 4 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Maybe you'll change your mind if we go down, which with us being 7 points from bottom with other team with games in hand and us losing against teams like Birmingham and Peterbrough I'm hoping we don't mess things up like last season we lost our last 4 games.We're not going down Phoenix. With the situation the club is in, and what the club is trying to do over time shuffling the deck is just about the last thing we should be looking to do.Also, why did you turn my post into a wall of text in that quote box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCfranco Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Does anyone genuinely think we're going to get relagated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCPhoenix Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 We're not going down Phoenix. With the situation the club is in, and what the club is trying to do over time shuffling the deck is just about the last thing we should be looking to do.Also, why did you turn my post into a wall of text in that quote box? It's not beyond the realm of possibility, Forest, Leicester, Charlton, Leeds, Southampton, Norwich etc have all gone done because they were in free fall, we could go down because of failure of a long term plan that failed to materialise, wages are down but at the cost of an experienced, attendances are down at a cost of atmosphere, and tickets are going up, its almost like the board are preparing us for league one, with our low wages and lower attendances, lower league manager in Nigel Clough and when Brayford and Hughes go we will have a league one squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCPhoenix Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Does anyone genuinely think we're going to get relagated? It's unlikely but we could if we aren't careful, 7 points off bottom, even with our goal difference is too close for comfort for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheeponacid Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Is it the players? Is a comment thats been mentioned on this thread & its an interesting question....In my opinion the players we are of a mindset to go for are. 1) Rejects at their previous clubs e.g Sammon, Coutts, with potentially Martin & Forsythe to be added to the list. 2) Players who are used to a losing mentality e.g Keogh relegated out of champ, Coutts has been relegated from champ at least once, Jacobs almost relegated out of the league with Northampton, O Connor relegated out of champs 3) Scottish league players used to an easier league 4) Young players with potential who may or may not come good. Keogh is an ok defender, who looked good in a struggling team but so did Croft at Norwich...if he had the quality required to be a defensive organiser at the top level of the championship, then I believe Cardiff would of out bid us...he is a decent number 2 centre back but a poor replacement for Shackell...he was in my opinion a panic buy to counteract the negativity around the Shackell sale.. Now I believe that our purchasing is based on our pay regime & believe that these are the only type of players that Clough is able to target & that he is doing an ok job against teams that have far superior squads..if he is given money & fails then fair enough, but at present he is left trying to make a sows ear budget into a silk purse team..In my opinion.. My biggest concern this summer is that the board will cash in on our best players & the money invested in further lucky bag signings.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 It's not beyond the realm of possibility, Forest, Leicester, Charlton, Leeds, Southampton, Norwich etc have all gone done because they were in free fall, we could go down because of failure of a long term plan that failed to materialise, wages are down but at the cost of an experienced, attendances are down at a cost of atmosphere, and tickets are going up, its almost like the board are preparing us for league one, with our low wages and lower attendances, lower league manager in Nigel Clough and when Brayford and Hughes go we will have a league one squad.............................................________....................................,.-'"...................``~.,.............................,.-"..................................."-.,.........................,/...............................................":,.....................,?......................................................,.................../...........................................................,}................./......................................................,:`^`..}.............../...................................................,:"........./..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../.........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`........_/..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....}...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../...,,,___.`~,......"~.,....................`.....}............../............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-"............/.`~,......`-...................................../.............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__,,_..........}.>-._...................................|..............`=~-,.....`=~-,__......`,....................................................`=~-,,.,...............................................................`:,,...........................`..............__.....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``........................................_..........._,-%.......`..................................., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnieronalde Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 It's unlikely but we could if we aren't careful, 7 points off bottom, even with our goal difference is too close for comfort for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFCPhoenix Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 ............................................________....................................,.-'"...................``~.,.............................,.-"..................................."-.,.........................,/...............................................":,.....................,?......................................................,.................../...........................................................,}................./......................................................,:`^`..}.............../...................................................,:"........./..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../............./__.(....."~-,_..............................,:`........../.........../(_...."~,_........"~,_....................,:`........_/..........{.._$;_......"=,_......."-,_.......,.-~-,},.~";/....}...........((.....*~_......."=-._......";,,./`..../"............../...,,,___.`~,......"~.,....................`.....}............../............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-"............/.`~,......`-...................................../.............`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....,__,,_..........}.>-._...................................|..............`=~-,.....`=~-,__......`,....................................................`=~-,,.,...............................................................`:,,...........................`..............__.....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``........................................_..........._,-%.......`..................................., Would you like to explain we we aren't improving then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knabby crackers Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 How come it says "You have already voted in this poll" when I bloody well haven't!!! Definitely IN !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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