Bob The Badger

I was just listening to a lady on Adrian Chiles phone in on 5live who has given birth to twins. She has covid and having to isolate from her husband and one baby who is underweight and still in hospital.

She said the maternity ward would normally have 35 staff on and 11 were off with Covid and it was utterly overwhelmed.

People taking digs at the vaccine and mask wearing will stop the instant a loved one either dies or gets seriously ill because because the hospital treatment they desperately needed was delayed, or simply didn't happen through a sheer lack of staff.

The idea of just letting it rip as was suggested on here a couple of days ago to much applause is ridiculous and so ill-informed as to be almost comical.

If you do that you will see more and more medical staff get sick and it will domino out of control. It won't be omicron killing people (I think it's fairly clear that is much less virulent than Delta) but a lack of care for people with other medical conditions.

The conversation that the NHS should be able to handle a 5% increase is worth having (Tory austerity measures and Brexit anybody can and should be discussed), but no health service could manage a 5% increase that AND staff dropping like flies at the same time.

The powers that be know what could happen which is why you have left and right wing governments acting in much the same way the world over. I despise Johnson with a passion, but I doubt there's anything he wants to do less than impose more control in the same way as Sturgeon didn't want to, but did anyway.

People who think this is about Governments wanting more control need to step away from their tin hats and go and read from all sources rather than relentlessly posting tweets from one guy on Twitter and unreliable sources whilst moaning about the BBC being unbiased.

And on that point, I've been listening carefully this week.

Every frickin debate is balanced. EVERY one. that I have listened to.

YES, you can tell what some people think. Nicky Campbell is clearly in favour of vaccines and mask wearing as is the Tony Livesey and Adrian Chiles, but that\'s not the point. They all give air time to all views and don't force the conversation. To deny that like the idiot who wrote that spurious  and (amazingly) anonymous Spectator article is to be either in utter denial, or simply working to an agenda.

10 hours ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

Just sitting down now. Was trying to think of a cheeky retort but nothing came to mind.

Surprised you didn't come up with a load of stuff.

1 hour ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

GF at her folks' place until Thursday, so tonight I'll be sat in my boxers eating lamb shanks  

I didn't know you were Cockney. Enjoy. 

Is there anybody in this thread who is concerned about missing Christmas because it's actually a sacred time for them?

I'm not criticising anybody or saying you shouldn't be looking forward to Christmas if you're not religious. Just curious.

15 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I'd love to know the science behind the 500 number.

Just a completely random figure plucked out of thin air.

Yeh, numbers like that always make me wonder.

They should have made it 509 and most people would be thinking it was carefully calculated and they should take notice.

22 minutes ago, Andicis said:

It is not the scientists job to tell the government what to do. They should advise from a health perspective, but the government needs to make the tough decisions by looking at all factors. 

I'd rather a consensus of scientists tell Boris what he should do, just like somebody should tell him looking like a tramp isn't endearing.

IF the most eminent scientists cannot agree, then let the Government decide based on rock, paper, scissors or whatever else it is they use.

I understand scientists cannot literally make the decisions and everything they do is advisory, but I trust them a whole lot more than the people who do have the power.

8 minutes ago, maxjam said:

There are far more double vaccinated being hospitalized with covid than unvaccinated.

Furthermore Covid patients only constitute 5% of all ICU beds (approx 900ppl), with more than half of those being double vaccinated.

If the NHS can't cope with under 2.5% increase (less than 450 unvaccinated) at Christmas at a time when virtually no one is getting ill with regular flu (regularly 20k died pre-covid), maybe we should be questioning its funding and/or its operation.

 

Do you know how many NHS staff are off work because of Covid? I know anecdotally from my wife, it's a lot.

A 5% increase don't seem a lot (although I don't really know how that pans out, it's just a random figure to me because I'm not a scientist), but if that's coupled with 10% ill or isolating, then all of a sudden that's a lot more concerning.

Then you can add on top of that all the procedures they are trying to get in that didn't get in last winter and you can kinda see why people who work in the health sector are gravely concerned.

Literally every type of government left and right and scientists from every country (except maybe North Korea) on the planet are concerned, yet there's people who know nothing about the finer details saying they're all overreacting.

It would be like 50 mechanics telling me that my cars about to run out of oil but my mate Dave who's a fishmonger and hasn't checked the dipstick saying 'you'll be alright mate, trust me'

15 minutes ago, angieram said:

I agree it is hopeful BUT we need the government to firstly realise this (they will need longer to be sure) and then to amend the rules accordingly. 

And how long do we give it until the more serious versions can be deemed to have been displaced? 

I don't Have a clue, I'm 100% if favour of letting the scientists tell the Government what to do.

It would seem apparent that some people think that there was some crying of wolf over the NHS collapsing last winter, when it kinda almost did.

But it's like a boxer that's been hammered to the canvas and is groggily getting up, it's not going to take much to knock it back down again.

The entire NHS is worn down and people are dying because of that and other people will die because they don't get needed treatment.

Adrian Chiles is standing in for Nicky Campbell on the 5Live phone-in this morning. he just had a guy on who said he was having all his family around for Christmas as he does every year.

None of them were vaxxed or have been tested and when asked if he didn't think he was putting his mother at risk said, and I poo you not, 'You're hardly likely to give it to the woman who gave birth o you, are you?'

That level of stupidity is difficult to comprehend.

7 minutes ago, angieram said:

Bob, with respect, this does only mean that there was no death reported on 20th December.  In the week  up to 20th December there were 4 deaths, same as previous 7 days, so an average of 4 deaths a week over last two weeks i.e. 8 deaths. 

 

I realise that, but we have to accept that deaths have plummeted.

My wife is on her way home from the hospital after having a test because she's got a sore throat, her glands are up and a bit of a cough.

She's going to try and run a clinic from home on the phone and she's in this weird twilight world and has been for almost 2 years, so I'm not saying we should be relaxing things, I'm saying we should recognise when things change.

I also think way too many people are boxed in to one way of thinking now and will just ignore anything that may throw a different light on things.

People who are anti-vax and anti-mask irritate and annoy me because they are making it harder for the NHS, thats unequivocal. But from a death/serious illness perspective things are vastly improved.

What that actually means is open to debate though.

I just presumed this was correct

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/easy_read?postcode=DE234BZ

51 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Some Covid stats from Derby and Burton:-

Patients in hospital - 78

Patients in ventilation beds - 4

R rate - 0.9 - 1.1

Am I missing something here?

Yes, you missed there were zero deaths from the 28 days leading up to December 20th in Derby.

Come on man, don't make me do you work for you.

4 hours ago, maxjam said:

Another good piece from the Spectator about the BBCs covid reporting

 

I'm bummed I got into my car just as the guy mentioned in this article had been cut off, but he was called abusive or offensive by Campbell and another guest and I can't remember Nicky Campbell cut ting someone off, or apologising to people over something a caller said and I probably listen 2 or 3 rimes per week.

5 days ago he had a caller on who was super against lockdown measures and said that there was nothing to fear as it was so low a death rate. He also said he thought he may have Covid and was going out socialising anyway. Campbell said on multiple occasions that his opinion should be heard and that many people agreed with him and never came close to silencing a very strong dissenter.

He did toward the end of the section ask him to get tested a couple of times.  I dunno if you could call that bias. Maybe, but the guy must have been on for the best part of 20 minutes and spoke more than anybody.

You can listen here - he comes on at 14.58.

And the fact the article is anonymous is kinda iffy.

On 18/12/2021 at 21:16, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

So the Omicron variant is replacing the unbelievably scary Delta variant and Delta replaced the unbelievably scary virus from March 2020. 
 

Just imagine if Omicron had come in March 2020 without any triple vaccine in place. Doesn’t bare thinking about  

I’m beginning to get worried there’s going to be an even scarier variant that’s going to come around in 6-12 months that the 6th vaccine might not cope with. 

There have been a bunch of other variants like beta, gamma and epsilon, but they didn't get much coverage because they weren't as unbelievably scary. 

2 hours ago, Archied said:

People not having the jab is nothing to do with getting back to normal , I took the double jab on that reasoning , how’s that one working for us ,, cry freedom says Matt, 

my triple jabbed mate has just tested positive 

 

Every anti vaxxer has a triple jabbed mate who has Covid. What are the odds? It's like anti vaxxers who know people who died after having the vaccine. 
 

On 16/12/2021 at 11:46, Jimbo Ram said:

This season has been very difficult but he certainly should have done better last season…..

Of course he should, what a loser.

Ok, so he inherited a poor team, a transfer embargo, a lack of experience, a 21 point reduction, a pandemic, less fervent/vocal support, a squad that know they are going down and a thinning thatch, but come on MAN, you are inept!

Sack him, sack the board and sack that sack that was used to carry all the P-45s in.

Well done @Jimbo Ram you brought a voice of reason to the proceedings. 

16 minutes ago, maxjam said:

My vaccination status is a matter for me, my doctor and my wife

Does your wife need to know mate?

Come on, this is national security stuff, why should she know?

Loose lips sink ships mate, remember that.

2 hours ago, ramit said:

Listen again.  Fauci said he would prefer people got voluntarily vaccinated but if they're not going to do that, sometimes you've got to do things that are unpopular but that clearly supersede individual choices.  i think i know a threat when i hear one and i don't need your approval to call things as i see them.

So, you are not in favour of mandating vaccinations, but think it would have been a good idea.  Right, gotcha.

It will be a cold day in Iceland when we declare war on France, but no it would not be okay, not without informed consent.

 

Oh well, if you *think* you know a threat when you hear one, let's just shut everything down and you can let us know because I didn't hear a threat and that report was from 9 days ago and nothing has happened on the threat front.

I'm not in favour of vaccinating dogs with rabies, or wasting time on teaching smokers that it's unhealthy....but ya know....there was a time when both were possibly a good idea.

You do realise that wars with France are far more common than worldwide pandemics - right?

44 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Out of interest, how is this so?

 

7 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

I’m not so sure that’s factual, we seem to be reacting and implementing actions to the “pandemic” based on positive cases. The vaccination doesn’t stop you getting it, however it does (as data has shown) lessen the impact of you do. Until we stop reacting to positive case count we will never be out of this. 

Fauci warned of variants way back at the beginning and the need to build herd immunity through vaccinations QUICKLY.

But that horse has left the stable, settled down with a hot filly, had foals and is now looking to retire.

It appears that with each variant  the vaccine has proved less effective in fighting off the virus entirely.

To the point now, with omicron, where it seems to be posing little resistance to catching the virus, but *appears* to be effective in reducing the seriousness.

So it's still important, but this variant is coming to get us all I think.

From my understanding, the vaccine absolutely did massively reduce your chances of catching Covid when it was rolled out, just that every subsequent variant has reduced its efficacy.

The early variants struggled in getting past the vaccine more than a drunken Dalek struggled to get up a flight of stairs.

Delta bought a chair lift, but Omicron be like 'dude hold my beer I've got this, there's a backdoor they left open - follow me"

I will go on record as saying the vaccine now appears to be useless in slowing the spread. It's still valuable in stopping people dying and helping the NHS though.

My views and opinions tend to change as science and new information changes.

Get this guys - I think vaccine passports are largely window dressing. I do think they can have value (can't be arsed to explain why as I have a client in 15 minutes).

This is aimed at @G STAR RAM rather than you @TexasRam - I look for information that contradicts what I already believe from reputable sources.

I then make the best judgment call I can as a layperson.

As such, my opinion fluctuates with new information .

That's why I think there may now be a case of just letting this thing rip IF they unequivocally can show the NHS wouldn't be more seriously impacted than it would with this dragging on year after year. 

Most people (me included when I'm posting here) in this thread are looking to persuade rather than learn. If we all  were told that we'd be given £5,000 if we could create a compelling argument for the position we currently do not hold, most of us probably could.

5 hours ago, Anon said:

Why is anyone still listening to Mengele, I mean Fauci? He's a big pharma pimp and has been for his entire career. He was very big on rushing through approval for zidovudine as a treatment for HIV in the 80's. A very expensive drug that seemed to reduce mortality initially, albeit with pretty awful side effects, until the virus quickly became resistant.

PMSL.

You clearly know a lot about him.

6 hours ago, ramit said:

A local pediatrician claims it is the civic duty of all parents to have their children jabbed, because non jabbed kids are the main spreaders of the new variant, (a claim he cannot back up with peer reviewed studies) but then says it's only for the health of the children, the scoundrel.

Meanwhile Fauci threatens to forcibly jab every non jabbed American.

 

A couple of things.

Fauci doesn't have that power and he didn't threaten to have people forcibly jabbed. He said he would prefer that to happen, so there's no real need for your inflammatory language. 

I *presume* he's just sick of people dying and new variants kicking it all off again (especially as he predicted this back in the beginning) when if everybody had been vaxxed from he get-go it would almost certainly totally under control by now.

I'm not in favour of mandating vaccinations now. I wasn't in favour 18 months ago, but in hindsight, it would probably been wise from a public health standpoint.

Civil liberties are fluid at best.

We have to pay taxes, we drink water with fluoride added to it whether we like it or not, we must wear a seat belt in a car, we cannot smoke inside public buildings, we have to obey laws or risk having our freedom taken away, certain people cannot do certain jobs without having certain vaccinations.

If were we at war with France and this virus was being used by them to infect the British people prior to an invasion, would a mandatory vaccination program be ok then? I mean, you probably wouldn't need it because I doubt there'd be so much pushback, but it's something to ponder.

Nothing is clear cut.

6 minutes ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

 

You guys watched L'Immortale. It's a feature released between S04 and 5 as a bit of a placeholder. Worth a watch if you love the shows - doesn't quite scale the same heights, but it's a petty handy place setter.

Nope, never heard of it. I'll take a gander. Cheers.

For those of you that like dark humour, Barry is excellent. Henry Winkler was outstanding.

I also liked The Kominski Method with Michael Douglas and Alan Arkin which is on Netflix. 

And from the early 80s' Police Squad was genius.

3 hours ago, Unlucky Alf said:

In no particular order

 

Curb Your Enthusiasm...so many tiny plots, Got all 11 series on Sky.

Blackadder 1, 2, 3 and 4, I don't watch the last of series 4 when they go over the top...I get choked up.

Yes Minister/Priminister...I'm sure this is true to life

Young Ones, Bloody students

Green green grass

Married with Children...Peggy a MILF

Sorry...Timothy

Sienfeld...one plot with several sub plots...Kramer?

Dads Army...Love it, Just love it.

Plebs

Ever decreasing circles...Ange may be turning into Hilda, I'd be the Lorry Driver ?

The Office(English)Gervais is mostly good, Done some carp imo

Extras

The Inbetweeners

Royle Family

Motherhood

Porridge

After Life...series 3 out soon on Netflix

Little Britain

Only Fools and Horses

Till Death Us Do Part

Vicar of Dibley...My Dad would like to give you one Miss ?

The Good Life

Wracked my brain...i'm sure there's more, "Comedy" today I don't find amusing.

 

 

 

I'd agree with almost all of those.

I hated Sorry, I mean really hated it. It would be in my list of worst popular comedies of all time. And I didn't like Vicar of Dibley, but that's probably just because I don't care for Dawn French.

And the very last Black Adder had me in tears too. I don't think it was OTT, just really brilliant writing. A bit like After Life. You laugh you cry.

6 hours ago, sage said:

What are your favourites?

Underated ones?

Why have they declined?

What was the the last great sitcom? 

I don't think it's declined at all, just diversified and because of how fractured TV has become, been trickier to find.

Not sure anything has ever hit the heights of Fawlty Towers, The Office (UK) and Black Adder (maybe even Fools and Horses), over the last decade, but the problem is that most TV now is written by committee so you lose that edge/risk., like dranSchitt's Creek was outstanding, but you really had a slog to get there in terms of understanding the characters. 

Flea Bag was great and the last two season of Curb Your Enthusiasm have been outstanding.

The Steve Coogan/Alan Partridge morning show thingee (forget the name now) is brilliant and Alma's Not Normal is pretty good. 

I think drama has never been as good and the same goes for comedy. It just takes more hunting down with a gazillion channels to search.