Oldben
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Posts posted by Oldben
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Nixon claims that none of the bids made reach the numbers needed financially and that finding a buyer is proving harder than ever.
Additionally, Nixon has reported that the chances of avoiding an EFL points deduction for next season now look slim.
As per The Telegraph’s John Percy, a points deduction may be applied if the bids don’t meet EFL insolvency regulations.
Beyond Words
Derby County’s administrators Quantuma have not picked a preferred bidder to take to the EFL for approval as it was previously suggested they would over the weekend, according to journalist Alan Nixon.
On Friday, Quantuma outlined the process they expected to follow in order to publicly name a preferred bidder.
In a statement, they revealed that final bids had to be in by close of business on Friday and would then be assessed over the weekend.
A decision would then be made over the preferred bidder and they would seek EFL approval in discussions early this week before publicly naming them.
According to Nixon, however, the administrators have not yet picked a preferred bidder as they claimed they would.
He claims that none of the bids made reach the numbers needed financially and that finding a buyer is proving harder than ever.
Additionally, Nixon has reported that the chances of avoiding an EFL points deduction for next season now look slim.
As per The Telegraph’s John Percy, a points deduction may be applied if the bids don’t meet EFL insolvency regulations.
The Verdict
This is a very concerning update on the Derby situation.
The new timelines outlined by the administrators on Friday looked to offer fresh hope that concrete progress would soon be made toward a takeover deal and the arrival of a new owner.
However, it seems Quantuma are facing continued problems and may once again not be able to stick to the timeline they revealed just a few days ago.
Supporters have become cautious when it comes to any of the timelines or claims made by the administrators and Nixon’s reports highlight just why.
It’s going to be interesting to see how the rest of the week pans out and whether a preferred bidder is indeed selected and named.
My question: How hard is it to go to the creditors and say this is what a potential buyer is willing to pay, so you can have X amount. That's not enough, ok well then you get almost nothing because the club goes into liquidation.
- jimtastic56 and RAM1966
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Makes me think about some of the challenges Derbys administrators have faced.
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https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/simon-jordan-mel-morris-derby-6870827
Hoes that even possible, why would the efl sanction it
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16 minutes ago, Sparkle said:
I can’t see season tickets being lower in league one - it should be but it won’t be happening certainly not initially
As an idea of what might be charged, probably would look to charge amongst the highest of these average rates for the 2022/23 season.
Here is a full list of price ranges for adults' season tickets in League One for 2021/22..
AFC Wimbledon – £380-£525
Accrington Stanley - £229
Bolton Wanderers – £248-£366
Burton Albion - £301-£423
Cambridge United - £319-£425
Charlton Athletic - £260-£575
Cheltenham Town - £255-£481
Crewe Alexandra - £395
Doncaster Rovers - £299-£395
Fleetwood Town - £170
Gillingham - £321-£435
Ipswich Town - £352-£470
Lincoln City - £359-£429
MK Dons - £230
Morecambe - £150-£300
Oxford United - £329-£500
Plymouth Argyle - £288-£395
Portsmouth - £313
Rotherham United - £355-£395
Sheffield Wednesday - £365-£495
Shrewsbury Town - £305-£465
Sunderland - £340-£465
Wigan Athletic - £299-£369
Wycombe Wanderers - £380-£494
- Sparkle and Tamworthram
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Factoring in a 15 point deduction next season, potentially with restrictions on purchasing players.
Then Factoring in at least two seasons in League one, under above circumstances.
Zero return on highly expensive investment in purchasing the club.
Potentially doing a Leeds and taking 3 years to return to the Championship from league one, then trying to survive with almost zero budget for new players over that 3 year period, as spent available funds on purchasing the club.
League one will see significantly lower return from attendances.
I wonder what season tickets cost will be, clearly lower than championship season ticket prices so that will mean lower revenue for the club.
Then if restrictions placed on what derby can spend on new players with over half the current team either leaving and many of those remaining not being good enough for league one.
On the positive side, at least there will still be a club.
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6 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said:
What's that based on?
He's only ever been an assistant manager.
On top of that why would new owners spend a fortune buying Derby, to then place the club in the hands of a complete novice if Rooney leaves.
Signing complete novices like Rooney, might have been a risk that MM was willing to take although i expect that might have had more to do with trying to lure a new buyer to derby as Rooneys name attached to the club might help with that.
Im not certain that the new owners would want to take risk if Rooney moves on.
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46 minutes ago, KBB said:
How do you know he isn't good enough?
Apologies, I should have rephrased.
Imagine you had just spent millions buying derby, would you risk a seriously under experienced manager on a promotion push.
Especially if you potentially had 15 point deduction to deal with before starting the season.
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9 minutes ago, KBB said:
If rooney leaves it will be rosenior as manager 100% next season.
Hopefully the old guard will move on.
Rosenoir isn't good enough to promote derby.
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1 hour ago, Birdyabroad said:
I’ve tried to remain optimistic, believing that we’re too much of a ‘brand’ to go down the tubes, surely someone will rescue us right?
But, today, with the Ebosele news, I’m finally defeated.
For years, like many, I’ve been excited at the prospect of our academy finally bearing fruit and, just as it does, due to our financial predicament, we’re losing them all one-by-one on free’s or for peanuts.
I firmly believe that, even if we get a new owner, this will put us in the wilderness in League One (Or even lower) for possibly a decade.
We’ve sold our future, have six or something signed players and will have to fill the team with lower league journeymen, less talented youngsters and loans from teams like Norwich, West Brom, Watford, etc.
It looks desperate from here.
I was a Mel Morris fan, thought he was a Derby lad made good and I felt the buzz when we made high profile signings (I would have been less thrilled if I knew the future was being gambled with).
Now, he is going to have to live with the fact that his legacy is that he’s financially ruined the club at worst or has set the club back ten years at best.
?
Good news then, in the event that we are taken over, I seriously doubt that any new owners will not plan to return to the Championship to try and make money ASAP.
Who would spend millions bailing out derby to see them floundering in the lower League's.
There might a question about who replaces Rooney, if he leaves and the club's in League one.
There is a massive question about what players join derby if the clubs playing in league one.
Which new academy players can derby hope to sign to strengthen a depleted academy.
Which new coaches join the club, when coaches leave the club much like the players because they want to coach at a least championship level.
Derby will have little available time to sort out signing enough new players to have a playable squad. I think that means they will have to pay above the odds to bring quality into the team.
If derby get a 15 point deduction next season combined with only signing poor quality players, you could have the club staring at relegation from league one instead of potential promotion.
No way I can see any new owners signing up to that.
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Imagine derby is liquidated, that's bad.
Yet it gives the opportunity to totally rebuild under a new name.
It gives the opportunity to buy a club in League Two and rebrand that club as say Derby AFC.
Still keeping a version of Derby as a club.
It removes the hmrc debt, msd debt, arsenal debt etc
I'm not sure Derby if there would be the money to buy Chesterfield or Burton and rebrand them.
That could leave a club like Mansfield vulnerable.
A mansfield rebrand wouldn't give Derby much, there grounds not great, there players are not great and how do you move the ground to Derby.
Recall Wimbledon afc plays in Milton Keynes a very long way from Wimbledon, that club was rebranded.
It might be an extreme solution.
It might appear strange to buy a club in League Two for about 10 million and rebrand, but I don't think there's anything in the rules that says that cant be done.
Under that scheme finding new owners seems more probable.
- angieram and G STAR RAM
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Very pleased to see boro knocked out of the fa Cup qualifications
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3 hours ago, CBRammette said:
Am I going mad or did Quantuma suggest ages ago after a Meeting with fans groups that one of the supporters groups was looking at crowdfunding? The sensible thing on paper would seem to be to crowd fund towards buying the ground or a % ownership of it but I the issue is that essentially is crowd funding for Mel!! Does anyone know whether some sort of campaign had been considered at all? It just seems weird that it hasnt been
That was a rumoured and long may it remain so, crowdfunding wouldn't raise enough to buy derby.
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I keep reading that some people want our players to sign new contracts when they even if they could, why would they when the club's not stable and they don't know which league they would be playing in.
Then even if that wasn't the issue, I'm not sure as to which players I'd wish to see, stay with the club.
Setting aside the senior players who unsurprising as they are not free agents yet, have zero offers for them.
Of course that's semantics as we don't have new owners.
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27 minutes ago, Yani P said:
I'm no expert on Administration as luckily not been through it myself, but is there any angle here where a potential buyer might actually prefer to see us liquidated then start the Phoenix club?
No because we wouldn't start in League one and the longer this draws out, we wouldn't start in League 2.
We might start in the jokes League's below League 2.
If that happened, derby have almost zero value.
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2 hours ago, BramcoteRam84 said:
£28 million without stadium was previous bid. Assuming lease deal could be achieved with Mel, GOC said £28m would work to satisfy creditors making certain assumption eg HMRC agreeing to 25%
Q are raising price bidders lowering the price - or placing conditions on what they will pay for the stadium!?- It will run for weeks, its a negotiation. The fact they’ve been given to the end of the season because we can complete fixtures means the negotiation will likely continue to the end of the season.
28 million for a club possibly in League 1 seems a decent bid to me.
I think creditors have zero chance of getting 100% return.
That's the thing with being a creditor, it's a risky business. Plus a % is better than nothing, they will get next to nothing if the club's liquidated.
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https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/derby-county-transfer-news-jozwiak-26489184
Where did the money from the sale go, if not to reduce the money owed for the player.
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21 hours ago, Unlucky Alf said:
Other than supporting on match days there's little to nothing else we can do, Supporters groups are treated as mushrooms, Fans are seen as cash cows, MPs release twitter feeds of no concequence.
The EFL haven't beaten us, They've certainly written our death throws, The nails in the Coffin were all lined up, Jagielka unable to re-sign, Shinnie moved on were 2 huge nails that were knocked into our Coffin.
I'm a realist with a little optimism thrown in, Until mathmatically impossible that we can't stay in the Championship then there's hope, I believe the EFL will have a party if we are relegated, It was their plan from the start, Parry, Birch et al have gone above and beyond in their efforts to put road blocks in our way, Once we were looking to make a fist of it things they seemed to have changed, Boro/Wycombe dragged on, Referees conspiracy I don't believe, EFL encouraging the Cheating Mantra imo has had the biggest effect on all in the Championship, We're the boogey man who lives under the bed, We're seen as a club that will get what they believe we deserve.
It rankles with me and has most of my adult life that oragisations will, Can and do have a very negative impact on peoples lives, Football for many 100s of 1000s of people is an escape from the humdrum of ordinary life...for what ever ordinary life is, There's no tub thumping from me, It's all been down to one person, That one person who gave Hope, Enjoyment, Excitement, Sadness and eventually Despair as this great club of ours is being lead away to the scaffold, Our only escape...24 points to be played for, Untill it's impossible to stay up...then there's hope.
COYR
Who suffers if we blame the efl.
The efl have not acted with our best interests at heart, after what happened to Bury fc I'm not surprised.
The efl are doing something, but not enough ...
As far as what can be done, we can continue to raise the issue with our members of Parliament, apply pressure so that the recommendations might happen.
The Government need to heed the recommendations of the Fan-Led Review and kickstart a truly independent regulator for football with the powers to intervene and prevent owners from reckless spending.
The efl claimed we could only appeal the initial 12 points if there was a force majeure but they ruled that over covid that wasn't the case for Derby, when in my opinion it played a significant part. A independent regulator should be able to over rule the efl on something like that.
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Pride park - not just on the basis of not wanting to pay off extra cost based on top of the debt aside from the club but also on the basis that the ground is a liability in league one.
Liability for me because i dont think a ground of pride parks size would be packed out in league one, so that in itself is extra cost.
Liability for me because the its cheaper to ground share than it is to try and repurchase pride park from mm.
It's a shame but there it is!
A league one club is not even with Derby's history and fan size, worth paying 50 million for, without the ground its going to mean less debt for new owners to repay.
The administrators are tasked with saving the club, not the ground as that belongs to MM.
For MM it's a massive liability as hes left with he the debt repayment to MSD and wondering what can he do with club as i cant see him pulling down the ground to make room for flats or a new shopping mall because that will see a return on the 30 million he now owes MSD.
If he rented the ground out an entertainment venue, i also doubt he would see a return.
He cant rent the ground to another club as who would pay the likely amount of rent that would require.
Derby could potentially rent ground space at Burton, Notts County or Chesterfield and still survice in some format as a club.
I believe that's why the Binnie offer for the club without the ground, was a sensible move.
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I think the administrators are still in negotiations.
Potential new owners have accepted relegation and a -15 point deduction for next season in order to reduce the debt.
Creditors have two choices in the summer, liquidate the club and get almost zero return.
Hmrc will not want to take a lower amount, but will know they can get something and will accept that even if they don't want to.
So there will be a derby next season.
I don't think the club will be promoted next season, it needs a huge rebuild.
Next season will be about rebuilding.
Not sure if derby will play at pride Park again, more likely to ground share with another club.
I think that the efl will allow derby to sign players next season but might select to only permit a given level of allowed transfer budge, making derby uncompetitive.
The binnie brothers supposedly offered circa 30 million for Derby, I think thats maximum sort of money that Derby can hope to achieve if relegated?!
At least the msd debt will not be on derby, as I don't think derby will take on pride Park, so that debt remains with MM.
The Administration Thread
in Derby County Forum
Posted
Can't see mm or administrators taking a cut on what they are owed.