DCFC_Sloth

It's cumulative. The first 15 games is erratic and doesn't tell you anything. I started at 20 is it removed Wassall's final 3 games in charge to keep the chart looking a bit cleaner. I can certainly do a rolling average too.
Here's the cumulative points (including cup games) for the same selection of managers. Warne is now just 1 point ahead of Cocu, and 4 behind Lampard and Rowett

This is the same, but limited to game 50:

I started looking at the PPG record of our managers since Clough was replaced in 2013, with results in all competitions counting. Some such as Mac (both times), Lampard and Rosenior started off very well. Others such as Rooney, Clement and Pearson started off badly. However, every managers record started to level off around the 15-20 game mark, with just a couple of exceptions.
Looking at each managers overall PPG record from game 21+, here are a few observations:
Mac 1 - Hovered around 2 ppg, up until the final 10 game slump, 'when heads were turned'. Clement - After an initial purple period between games 20 to 25, form slumped with only Cocu and Rooney having worse ppg records at 33 games Mac 2 - Form nosedived just as quickly as Clement's did Rowett - After a purple patch in his 30's, he reverted back to norm by the end of the season Lampard - A steady 80 points a season record dropped to a steady 73 points per season record which was starting to increase when sacked Cocu - Despite a purple patch towards the end of the 19/20 season, he reverted back to norm for his last 10 games in charge Rooney - Form dropped over a 15 game period, and it stayed there until he left. Warne - It's been downhill since that 20-ish game run came to an end.

I really agree with what you are saying in your post.
I said it earlier in the thread, I'm not a Warne guy, he wasn't my choice from the beginning and he has done little to change my view on that, but I am trying to be as objective as I can. Regarding putting his stamp on the side, he has bought in 7/8 players or whatever it is, but he hasn't been able to pay any transfer fees which I imagine really limits who he can get and I assume means he has to compromise on the players he is getting. He may have wanted big, athletic, ball playing centre backs, but when you can't pay a fee you can only get two of those things, so which do you sacrifice? Sonny Bradley is a big centre back who is fairly good on the ball, but he's slow. Curtis Nelson is a bit quicker, and he is big, but he is weaker at playing the ball out. I'm not saying that other managers don't face challenges in bringing players in, but it is fair to say that recruitment is really difficult for us/him at the moment and really hinders the ability to completely change the type of team we are with the expectation of achieving promotion at the end of the season. 
It leads into what I wrote earlier, and what aligns with what you are saying, about not being able to change his style and adapt to what he has. The things he wants to do - press high, be dynamic, lots of energy in midfield - aren't in the squad and haven't really been addressed/added in the recruitment and have left us, as it stands today, with quite an unbalanced squad and team that seems to neither be nout nor something. We have got some players that let us line up in the shape he wants, but those players don't/won't/can't play in the high energy way that he wants. We will have enough in this team to beat the bottom half sides, but I think there will be a continuation of the struggles against any of the top sides which we saw last season.

I really agree with what you are saying in your post.
I said it earlier in the thread, I'm not a Warne guy, he wasn't my choice from the beginning and he has done little to change my view on that, but I am trying to be as objective as I can. Regarding putting his stamp on the side, he has bought in 7/8 players or whatever it is, but he hasn't been able to pay any transfer fees which I imagine really limits who he can get and I assume means he has to compromise on the players he is getting. He may have wanted big, athletic, ball playing centre backs, but when you can't pay a fee you can only get two of those things, so which do you sacrifice? Sonny Bradley is a big centre back who is fairly good on the ball, but he's slow. Curtis Nelson is a bit quicker, and he is big, but he is weaker at playing the ball out. I'm not saying that other managers don't face challenges in bringing players in, but it is fair to say that recruitment is really difficult for us/him at the moment and really hinders the ability to completely change the type of team we are with the expectation of achieving promotion at the end of the season. 
It leads into what I wrote earlier, and what aligns with what you are saying, about not being able to change his style and adapt to what he has. The things he wants to do - press high, be dynamic, lots of energy in midfield - aren't in the squad and haven't really been addressed/added in the recruitment and have left us, as it stands today, with quite an unbalanced squad and team that seems to neither be nout nor something. We have got some players that let us line up in the shape he wants, but those players don't/won't/can't play in the high energy way that he wants. We will have enough in this team to beat the bottom half sides, but I think there will be a continuation of the struggles against any of the top sides which we saw last season.

Getting the balance right will be really hard with this squad. I’m not a Warne guy, I’ll be honest, but I think he’s been dealt a bit of a dud hand. We recruited a team of players last summer who were all really good technically for Liam, and then went and got Warne after 11 games with no money to spend for minimum 3 windows. If we really wanted him, we should have got him straight away. 
Warne wants us to condense the middle of the pitch with high energy to win the ball back, then get it out wide to a wingback who puts an early ball into the box. The problem is we have lost the midfielder most suited to the system. We now have 3 technical players who Warne wants to go sprinting around and getting stuck in for 90 minutes combined with a winger who is out of position. Our summer business never seems to have attempted to address this. 
The other issue I see is the back three. They are simply too slow and not athletic enough to play as high as they are and also overlap when needed. It leaves us really exposed to any kind of pace or movement in behind and can open up a big gap between defenders and midfield, as seen for Wigan’s first when Bradley could only really go backwards and woefully under hit the pass. It’s the third goal that we’ve conceded in this manner so far this season when pre season is included so it’s clearly an issue. 
The result is we can’t win the ball back as quickly as we would like, leaving us exposed through the middle, and when we do win it back and get it into the box, our striker is on his own vs three or four because the midfield isn’t dynamic enough to chase in, or have dropped deeper to cover the defenders. I know it’s only been one game of the season, but a lot of these problems were evident last season when our unbeaten run came to an end. 
Finally, we are bringing in predominantly older players and have a paper thin squad. It’s a symptom of our situation, but it really hinders our ability to play ‘gas out football’ to any serious level. Warne says he wants another 2 players, but I think we are really 4/5 short. With the new added time rules we are essentially playing an extra 7 games over a league season in terms of minutes and that will hit us harder than any promotion rivals. The small squad also makes it really hard to change a game tactically. We can make five subs, but we only really have 4 or 5 serious options from the bench when the squad is fully fit. I think this season will be really tough for us, and I believe a combination of the recruitment not matching what the manager ideally wants and the manager’s inability to play any other system are the major reasons for this. 

Getting the balance right will be really hard with this squad. I’m not a Warne guy, I’ll be honest, but I think he’s been dealt a bit of a dud hand. We recruited a team of players last summer who were all really good technically for Liam, and then went and got Warne after 11 games with no money to spend for minimum 3 windows. If we really wanted him, we should have got him straight away. 
Warne wants us to condense the middle of the pitch with high energy to win the ball back, then get it out wide to a wingback who puts an early ball into the box. The problem is we have lost the midfielder most suited to the system. We now have 3 technical players who Warne wants to go sprinting around and getting stuck in for 90 minutes combined with a winger who is out of position. Our summer business never seems to have attempted to address this. 
The other issue I see is the back three. They are simply too slow and not athletic enough to play as high as they are and also overlap when needed. It leaves us really exposed to any kind of pace or movement in behind and can open up a big gap between defenders and midfield, as seen for Wigan’s first when Bradley could only really go backwards and woefully under hit the pass. It’s the third goal that we’ve conceded in this manner so far this season when pre season is included so it’s clearly an issue. 
The result is we can’t win the ball back as quickly as we would like, leaving us exposed through the middle, and when we do win it back and get it into the box, our striker is on his own vs three or four because the midfield isn’t dynamic enough to chase in, or have dropped deeper to cover the defenders. I know it’s only been one game of the season, but a lot of these problems were evident last season when our unbeaten run came to an end. 
Finally, we are bringing in predominantly older players and have a paper thin squad. It’s a symptom of our situation, but it really hinders our ability to play ‘gas out football’ to any serious level. Warne says he wants another 2 players, but I think we are really 4/5 short. With the new added time rules we are essentially playing an extra 7 games over a league season in terms of minutes and that will hit us harder than any promotion rivals. The small squad also makes it really hard to change a game tactically. We can make five subs, but we only really have 4 or 5 serious options from the bench when the squad is fully fit. I think this season will be really tough for us, and I believe a combination of the recruitment not matching what the manager ideally wants and the manager’s inability to play any other system are the major reasons for this. 

Maybe ‘dud hand’ isn’t quite the right phrasing, but he is certainly isnt in a position to really put his stamp on the squad. Although I’m sure he knew what he was walking into, it is possible that he underestimated the difficulty of getting a team to play his way, or he knew exactly what the limitations were and felt he couldn’t turn the job down due to size of the opportunity.
My point is really that he’s not in a/put himself in a position which will allow him to easily succeed. I’m sure things would have been more successful if he could have come in and made more wholesale changes. We now find ourselves in a position where we have quite an unbalanced team and he has to find some solutions. For me, he is the wrong man at the wrong time, but maybe I’ll look a fool in may! 

Good posts @superfit and @DCFC_Sloth .  I do think we have the players, with a couple more additions, who could get us up this season. I just don’t think we will be playing a system that gets the best out of them.

Getting the balance right will be really hard with this squad. I’m not a Warne guy, I’ll be honest, but I think he’s been dealt a bit of a dud hand. We recruited a team of players last summer who were all really good technically for Liam, and then went and got Warne after 11 games with no money to spend for minimum 3 windows. If we really wanted him, we should have got him straight away. 
Warne wants us to condense the middle of the pitch with high energy to win the ball back, then get it out wide to a wingback who puts an early ball into the box. The problem is we have lost the midfielder most suited to the system. We now have 3 technical players who Warne wants to go sprinting around and getting stuck in for 90 minutes combined with a winger who is out of position. Our summer business never seems to have attempted to address this. 
The other issue I see is the back three. They are simply too slow and not athletic enough to play as high as they are and also overlap when needed. It leaves us really exposed to any kind of pace or movement in behind and can open up a big gap between defenders and midfield, as seen for Wigan’s first when Bradley could only really go backwards and woefully under hit the pass. It’s the third goal that we’ve conceded in this manner so far this season when pre season is included so it’s clearly an issue. 
The result is we can’t win the ball back as quickly as we would like, leaving us exposed through the middle, and when we do win it back and get it into the box, our striker is on his own vs three or four because the midfield isn’t dynamic enough to chase in, or have dropped deeper to cover the defenders. I know it’s only been one game of the season, but a lot of these problems were evident last season when our unbeaten run came to an end. 
Finally, we are bringing in predominantly older players and have a paper thin squad. It’s a symptom of our situation, but it really hinders our ability to play ‘gas out football’ to any serious level. Warne says he wants another 2 players, but I think we are really 4/5 short. With the new added time rules we are essentially playing an extra 7 games over a league season in terms of minutes and that will hit us harder than any promotion rivals. The small squad also makes it really hard to change a game tactically. We can make five subs, but we only really have 4 or 5 serious options from the bench when the squad is fully fit. I think this season will be really tough for us, and I believe a combination of the recruitment not matching what the manager ideally wants and the manager’s inability to play any other system are the major reasons for this. 

Getting the balance right will be really hard with this squad. I’m not a Warne guy, I’ll be honest, but I think he’s been dealt a bit of a dud hand. We recruited a team of players last summer who were all really good technically for Liam, and then went and got Warne after 11 games with no money to spend for minimum 3 windows. If we really wanted him, we should have got him straight away. 
Warne wants us to condense the middle of the pitch with high energy to win the ball back, then get it out wide to a wingback who puts an early ball into the box. The problem is we have lost the midfielder most suited to the system. We now have 3 technical players who Warne wants to go sprinting around and getting stuck in for 90 minutes combined with a winger who is out of position. Our summer business never seems to have attempted to address this. 
The other issue I see is the back three. They are simply too slow and not athletic enough to play as high as they are and also overlap when needed. It leaves us really exposed to any kind of pace or movement in behind and can open up a big gap between defenders and midfield, as seen for Wigan’s first when Bradley could only really go backwards and woefully under hit the pass. It’s the third goal that we’ve conceded in this manner so far this season when pre season is included so it’s clearly an issue. 
The result is we can’t win the ball back as quickly as we would like, leaving us exposed through the middle, and when we do win it back and get it into the box, our striker is on his own vs three or four because the midfield isn’t dynamic enough to chase in, or have dropped deeper to cover the defenders. I know it’s only been one game of the season, but a lot of these problems were evident last season when our unbeaten run came to an end. 
Finally, we are bringing in predominantly older players and have a paper thin squad. It’s a symptom of our situation, but it really hinders our ability to play ‘gas out football’ to any serious level. Warne says he wants another 2 players, but I think we are really 4/5 short. With the new added time rules we are essentially playing an extra 7 games over a league season in terms of minutes and that will hit us harder than any promotion rivals. The small squad also makes it really hard to change a game tactically. We can make five subs, but we only really have 4 or 5 serious options from the bench when the squad is fully fit. I think this season will be really tough for us, and I believe a combination of the recruitment not matching what the manager ideally wants and the manager’s inability to play any other system are the major reasons for this. 

Getting the balance right will be really hard with this squad. I’m not a Warne guy, I’ll be honest, but I think he’s been dealt a bit of a dud hand. We recruited a team of players last summer who were all really good technically for Liam, and then went and got Warne after 11 games with no money to spend for minimum 3 windows. If we really wanted him, we should have got him straight away. 
Warne wants us to condense the middle of the pitch with high energy to win the ball back, then get it out wide to a wingback who puts an early ball into the box. The problem is we have lost the midfielder most suited to the system. We now have 3 technical players who Warne wants to go sprinting around and getting stuck in for 90 minutes combined with a winger who is out of position. Our summer business never seems to have attempted to address this. 
The other issue I see is the back three. They are simply too slow and not athletic enough to play as high as they are and also overlap when needed. It leaves us really exposed to any kind of pace or movement in behind and can open up a big gap between defenders and midfield, as seen for Wigan’s first when Bradley could only really go backwards and woefully under hit the pass. It’s the third goal that we’ve conceded in this manner so far this season when pre season is included so it’s clearly an issue. 
The result is we can’t win the ball back as quickly as we would like, leaving us exposed through the middle, and when we do win it back and get it into the box, our striker is on his own vs three or four because the midfield isn’t dynamic enough to chase in, or have dropped deeper to cover the defenders. I know it’s only been one game of the season, but a lot of these problems were evident last season when our unbeaten run came to an end. 
Finally, we are bringing in predominantly older players and have a paper thin squad. It’s a symptom of our situation, but it really hinders our ability to play ‘gas out football’ to any serious level. Warne says he wants another 2 players, but I think we are really 4/5 short. With the new added time rules we are essentially playing an extra 7 games over a league season in terms of minutes and that will hit us harder than any promotion rivals. The small squad also makes it really hard to change a game tactically. We can make five subs, but we only really have 4 or 5 serious options from the bench when the squad is fully fit. I think this season will be really tough for us, and I believe a combination of the recruitment not matching what the manager ideally wants and the manager’s inability to play any other system are the major reasons for this. 

Getting the balance right will be really hard with this squad. I’m not a Warne guy, I’ll be honest, but I think he’s been dealt a bit of a dud hand. We recruited a team of players last summer who were all really good technically for Liam, and then went and got Warne after 11 games with no money to spend for minimum 3 windows. If we really wanted him, we should have got him straight away. 
Warne wants us to condense the middle of the pitch with high energy to win the ball back, then get it out wide to a wingback who puts an early ball into the box. The problem is we have lost the midfielder most suited to the system. We now have 3 technical players who Warne wants to go sprinting around and getting stuck in for 90 minutes combined with a winger who is out of position. Our summer business never seems to have attempted to address this. 
The other issue I see is the back three. They are simply too slow and not athletic enough to play as high as they are and also overlap when needed. It leaves us really exposed to any kind of pace or movement in behind and can open up a big gap between defenders and midfield, as seen for Wigan’s first when Bradley could only really go backwards and woefully under hit the pass. It’s the third goal that we’ve conceded in this manner so far this season when pre season is included so it’s clearly an issue. 
The result is we can’t win the ball back as quickly as we would like, leaving us exposed through the middle, and when we do win it back and get it into the box, our striker is on his own vs three or four because the midfield isn’t dynamic enough to chase in, or have dropped deeper to cover the defenders. I know it’s only been one game of the season, but a lot of these problems were evident last season when our unbeaten run came to an end. 
Finally, we are bringing in predominantly older players and have a paper thin squad. It’s a symptom of our situation, but it really hinders our ability to play ‘gas out football’ to any serious level. Warne says he wants another 2 players, but I think we are really 4/5 short. With the new added time rules we are essentially playing an extra 7 games over a league season in terms of minutes and that will hit us harder than any promotion rivals. The small squad also makes it really hard to change a game tactically. We can make five subs, but we only really have 4 or 5 serious options from the bench when the squad is fully fit. I think this season will be really tough for us, and I believe a combination of the recruitment not matching what the manager ideally wants and the manager’s inability to play any other system are the major reasons for this. 

Getting the balance right will be really hard with this squad. I’m not a Warne guy, I’ll be honest, but I think he’s been dealt a bit of a dud hand. We recruited a team of players last summer who were all really good technically for Liam, and then went and got Warne after 11 games with no money to spend for minimum 3 windows. If we really wanted him, we should have got him straight away. 
Warne wants us to condense the middle of the pitch with high energy to win the ball back, then get it out wide to a wingback who puts an early ball into the box. The problem is we have lost the midfielder most suited to the system. We now have 3 technical players who Warne wants to go sprinting around and getting stuck in for 90 minutes combined with a winger who is out of position. Our summer business never seems to have attempted to address this. 
The other issue I see is the back three. They are simply too slow and not athletic enough to play as high as they are and also overlap when needed. It leaves us really exposed to any kind of pace or movement in behind and can open up a big gap between defenders and midfield, as seen for Wigan’s first when Bradley could only really go backwards and woefully under hit the pass. It’s the third goal that we’ve conceded in this manner so far this season when pre season is included so it’s clearly an issue. 
The result is we can’t win the ball back as quickly as we would like, leaving us exposed through the middle, and when we do win it back and get it into the box, our striker is on his own vs three or four because the midfield isn’t dynamic enough to chase in, or have dropped deeper to cover the defenders. I know it’s only been one game of the season, but a lot of these problems were evident last season when our unbeaten run came to an end. 
Finally, we are bringing in predominantly older players and have a paper thin squad. It’s a symptom of our situation, but it really hinders our ability to play ‘gas out football’ to any serious level. Warne says he wants another 2 players, but I think we are really 4/5 short. With the new added time rules we are essentially playing an extra 7 games over a league season in terms of minutes and that will hit us harder than any promotion rivals. The small squad also makes it really hard to change a game tactically. We can make five subs, but we only really have 4 or 5 serious options from the bench when the squad is fully fit. I think this season will be really tough for us, and I believe a combination of the recruitment not matching what the manager ideally wants and the manager’s inability to play any other system are the major reasons for this. 

Getting the balance right will be really hard with this squad. I’m not a Warne guy, I’ll be honest, but I think he’s been dealt a bit of a dud hand. We recruited a team of players last summer who were all really good technically for Liam, and then went and got Warne after 11 games with no money to spend for minimum 3 windows. If we really wanted him, we should have got him straight away. 
Warne wants us to condense the middle of the pitch with high energy to win the ball back, then get it out wide to a wingback who puts an early ball into the box. The problem is we have lost the midfielder most suited to the system. We now have 3 technical players who Warne wants to go sprinting around and getting stuck in for 90 minutes combined with a winger who is out of position. Our summer business never seems to have attempted to address this. 
The other issue I see is the back three. They are simply too slow and not athletic enough to play as high as they are and also overlap when needed. It leaves us really exposed to any kind of pace or movement in behind and can open up a big gap between defenders and midfield, as seen for Wigan’s first when Bradley could only really go backwards and woefully under hit the pass. It’s the third goal that we’ve conceded in this manner so far this season when pre season is included so it’s clearly an issue. 
The result is we can’t win the ball back as quickly as we would like, leaving us exposed through the middle, and when we do win it back and get it into the box, our striker is on his own vs three or four because the midfield isn’t dynamic enough to chase in, or have dropped deeper to cover the defenders. I know it’s only been one game of the season, but a lot of these problems were evident last season when our unbeaten run came to an end. 
Finally, we are bringing in predominantly older players and have a paper thin squad. It’s a symptom of our situation, but it really hinders our ability to play ‘gas out football’ to any serious level. Warne says he wants another 2 players, but I think we are really 4/5 short. With the new added time rules we are essentially playing an extra 7 games over a league season in terms of minutes and that will hit us harder than any promotion rivals. The small squad also makes it really hard to change a game tactically. We can make five subs, but we only really have 4 or 5 serious options from the bench when the squad is fully fit. I think this season will be really tough for us, and I believe a combination of the recruitment not matching what the manager ideally wants and the manager’s inability to play any other system are the major reasons for this. 

Not really a player who was hated or despised, but I always thought Tom Ince was never liked as much as his output might suggest he should have been. He scored at a rate of about 1 in 3 and got a fair few assists - probably a goal or assist every other game - but he was never really loved by fans. I can’t remember there being much unhappiness or sadness when he left; people just sort of accepted he was gone and moved on. Bit of a weird one, really. 

Only Derby make you feel this nervous when you’ve dominated a game to this degree. All I can see is a tactical change by MK Dons followed by us finding a way to throw this away. 
 
Other results only reinforce the importance of getting as many goals as we can here. Every single one is vital. 
 
Here’s hoping the second half continues as the first ended, but with us actually being able to stick a few away!

Only Derby make you feel this nervous when you’ve dominated a game to this degree. All I can see is a tactical change by MK Dons followed by us finding a way to throw this away. 
 
Other results only reinforce the importance of getting as many goals as we can here. Every single one is vital. 
 
Here’s hoping the second half continues as the first ended, but with us actually being able to stick a few away!

Feel like we have to go and get a few today. Goal difference might be important come the end of the season with there being three teams chasing two spots.

Feel like we have to go and get a few today. Goal difference might be important come the end of the season with there being three teams chasing two spots.

Feel like we have to go and get a few today. Goal difference might be important come the end of the season with there being three teams chasing two spots.

Or could it be a 442?:
Wildsmith 
Smith Chester Cashin Roberts
Mendez-Laing Knight Hourihane Sibley
Collins McGoldrick
Personally I hope it’s a 4 at the back. NML looks hopeless at wingback and is always too far behind the play to make best use of his skill set. 

Embarrassing 

I’m not suggesting Warne leaves, or that I want him gone, but I think some questions can be raised about how he is setting us up. NML and Barks as wingbacks seems counter productive and leave us exposed and stops them being effective further up the pitch. Surely fozzy or Robert’s should be in one of those spots. We have really technical players in midfield, but we are just bypassing them - bird had some of the lowest number of touches for any player on the pitch. It is a worry to me that he is seemingly setting us up like his Rotherham team when we don’t have players suited to that. He needs more time, but right now I don’t think he’s getting the most out of the tools at his disposal and that is concerning. 

I’m not suggesting Warne leaves, or that I want him gone, but I think some questions can be raised about how he is setting us up. NML and Barks as wingbacks seems counter productive and leave us exposed and stops them being effective further up the pitch. Surely fozzy or Robert’s should be in one of those spots. We have really technical players in midfield, but we are just bypassing them - bird had some of the lowest number of touches for any player on the pitch. It is a worry to me that he is seemingly setting us up like his Rotherham team when we don’t have players suited to that. He needs more time, but right now I don’t think he’s getting the most out of the tools at his disposal and that is concerning. 

I’m not suggesting Warne leaves, or that I want him gone, but I think some questions can be raised about how he is setting us up. NML and Barks as wingbacks seems counter productive and leave us exposed and stops them being effective further up the pitch. Surely fozzy or Robert’s should be in one of those spots. We have really technical players in midfield, but we are just bypassing them - bird had some of the lowest number of touches for any player on the pitch. It is a worry to me that he is seemingly setting us up like his Rotherham team when we don’t have players suited to that. He needs more time, but right now I don’t think he’s getting the most out of the tools at his disposal and that is concerning.