Stive Pesley

To paraphrase General Melchett....:
"Make a note of it. I like it. I want to use it more in conversation"

It's the usual story isn't it?
It's capitalist free market when there is profit to be made, but the second it becomes a problem, the government have to step in and bail them out. The remaining so-called "big 6" don't have the capacity to suddenly take on millions of extra customers, and can't afford to but the extra gas to supply them - and suddenly the government are throwing our tax payers money at them
Same with the CO2 shortages
I'll be amazed if there is anyone left after this debacle who doesn't believe the energy sector should be back in public ownership

I'm just thrilled by the use of the word symptomatology?
 

Some positive news this morning via BBC live feed:
Covid-19 could resemble the common cold by spring next year as people's immunity to the virus is boosted by vaccines and exposure, according to a leading expert.
Prof Sir John Bell, who was part of the team that developed the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, tells Times Radio the country "is over the worst" and things "should be fine" once winter has passed.
He was speaking after Prof Sarah Gilbert, who designed the Oxford vaccine, said Covid was likely to become like other seasonal coronaviruses that cause common colds, as immunity in the population grows and the virus evolves.
Speaking to Times Radio, he says: "If you look at the trajectory we're on, we're a lot better off than we were six months ago.
"So the pressure on the NHS is largely abated. If you look at the deaths from Covid, they tend to be very elderly people, and it's not entirely clear it was Covid that caused all those deaths.
"And I think what will happen is, there will be quite a lot of background exposure to Delta (variant), we can see the case numbers are quite high, that particularly in people who've had two vaccines if they get a bit of breakthrough symptomatology, or not even symptomatology - if they just are asymptomatically infected, that will add to our immunity substantially, so I think we're headed for the position Sarah describes probably by next spring would be my view.
"We have to get over the winter to get there but I think it should be fine."
 

Avro Energy apparently.?

Yes but my point was that administration either ends with a CVA and Derby County continue to exist with a new owner, or it ends without a CVA and Derby County ceases to exist, and we start again with a phoenix club
Ending without a CVA is considerably cheaper for a buyer...
 
I hope there are more - not because I wish this on any other team, but because the more EFL teams it happens to, the more it exposes what a joke the EFL and it's so called financial fair play rules are

Hmm - deferred wages still have to be paid at some point, so doesn't this just increase the price again for any potential buyer?
"oh yeah - as well as the £25m you will have to pay the HMRC, and the millions to Keogh, Cocu, transfer fee installments etc - are you also OK to add on a couple of million for players wages during the time we were in administration?"
It's such an attractive proposition I can't believe we don't have a queue
 

Yes but my point was that administration either ends with a CVA and Derby County continue to exist with a new owner, or it ends without a CVA and Derby County ceases to exist, and we start again with a phoenix club
Ending without a CVA is considerably cheaper for a buyer...
 
I hope there are more - not because I wish this on any other team, but because the more EFL teams it happens to, the more it exposes what a joke the EFL and it's so called financial fair play rules are

I guess this was the point of his rats nest of limited companies,  Gellaw this that and the other - carefully constructed to protect his personal fortune on the day that it all comes tumbling down
Ultimately, the club has not gone into administration because it has "run out of money", it's gone into administration because MM no longer wants to own it, but is trapped into continuing to own it because he can't find a buyer. And he can't find a buyer because he's got the club into an undesirable state
Administration is the coward's way out, instead of just admitting responsibility and fixing it
The only question to ask yourself is "why would anyone buy the club?"
If there was a way to turn it around from here and make money, then MM would be doing it
 
 

I guess this was the point of his rats nest of limited companies,  Gellaw this that and the other - carefully constructed to protect his personal fortune on the day that it all comes tumbling down
Ultimately, the club has not gone into administration because it has "run out of money", it's gone into administration because MM no longer wants to own it, but is trapped into continuing to own it because he can't find a buyer. And he can't find a buyer because he's got the club into an undesirable state
Administration is the coward's way out, instead of just admitting responsibility and fixing it
The only question to ask yourself is "why would anyone buy the club?"
If there was a way to turn it around from here and make money, then MM would be doing it
 
 

I guess this was the point of his rats nest of limited companies,  Gellaw this that and the other - carefully constructed to protect his personal fortune on the day that it all comes tumbling down
Ultimately, the club has not gone into administration because it has "run out of money", it's gone into administration because MM no longer wants to own it, but is trapped into continuing to own it because he can't find a buyer. And he can't find a buyer because he's got the club into an undesirable state
Administration is the coward's way out, instead of just admitting responsibility and fixing it
The only question to ask yourself is "why would anyone buy the club?"
If there was a way to turn it around from here and make money, then MM would be doing it
 
 

I was thinking in financial terms the other EFL teams wouldn't have to think twice about electing us - as for a very high percentage of them, we're one of their most lucrative away days (and would also bring in a fair few choice "selected for TV matches" their way )
But yeah - ultimately who knows!
Darlington is an interesting one as they failed to agree a CVA and were liquidated in 2012. Not sure what rule this refers to exactly but
"A new club was immediately formed and moved to Blackwell Meadows stadium but the FA ruled that, as a new club, it must have a different playing name from the expelled club. The name chosen was Darlington 1883, and that club was placed in the Northern League Division One, the ninth tier of English football,"
They were already in the Conference though, so they moved to the bottom tier of Non-league
Rangers wiki page also says something interesting about CVA
"Charles Green agreed a deal with the administrators of The Rangers Football Club plc to purchase the company for £8.5 million if a proposed CVA was agreed or to purchase its business and assets for a £5.5million if the proposed CVA were to be rejected."
What this suggests is that if the club is cheaper to buy when in administration with a CVA - it will be even cheaper if the CVA can't be agreed. It's going to get interesting, if the club can be bought for several million pounds less but in L2 rather than L1, there may be potential investors who see that as a better option ?
 
 
 

Does anyone know the full story of what happened to Glasgow Rangers? They ended up being liquidated didn't they? Ended up having to form a new club and apply to join the bottom tier of Scottish football and have played their way back through to the top league since?
 
Just wondering if there are any similarities here that might give us an idea of what happens if the club is liquidated

I've honestly no idea where the new-co Derby County would have to start - if "elected" to join league 2 I'd consider that a very good outcome. It's also possible it starts at the very bottom tier as a new from scratch team has tried to join the non-league pyramid. I think you're right, the practicalities of it being Derby County would probably mean it starts a few rungs up from that. Possiby the conference (on the one below that - no idea what those divisions are named now).
And it's probably slightly different if an investment group buys the rights to Derby County and forms new-co DCFC (a la Rangers) to a fan based phoenix club (AFC Derby County), even though in theory both are brand new football teams looking to join the league pyramid at the best level they can be allowed in.
In terms of Pride Park - There's a big white elephant outside Darlington. If Mel isn't careful he might find his shiny "event space" isn't all he thought it would be as an investment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Darlington_Arena

Maybe not that long? We're looking at League One anyway. I think the EFL teams would vote to allow us to join L2.
A "Derby County" with 30k fans would not be a practical proposition for non league football in terms of facilities

Surely any potential new owner, if there actually is any serious ones out there, won't want to buy a team who sells its assets in January. If £60m is needed to clear the debts, you'd also suspect any new owner would want the ground to come with it. Would Mel be allowed to sell the ground for £1 or actually, would that create a problem given its asset value in the books? I highly suspect that it would cause issues if the ground was only purchased for a £1 - so we now have another issue here....
So does a new owner not only need to clear the £60M of debt (I have no idea if this is how much it is) but if they want the ground they need to pay a fair market value for it - which unsurprisingly is around £80m. I thought Mel had actually transferred the money into the club for this but I guess we will see this in the debtors value if we ever see a new set of accounts published.
So a new owner COULD be looking at a £140m bill if they want the ownership of the ground and at least a minus 12 points deduction.
Yeah - we look really attractive...

There are some similarities but some things will be different (e.g. the stadium) but as part of the liquidation someone could buy the rights to "Derby County football Club" and all the trademarks etc and set up a football club called Derby County. Where they'd start in the English pyramid is obviously up to debate, but from that point onnitd be the long road back.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jan/18/how-the-mighty-glasgow-rangers-have-fallen (just picked as one of first results on Google, but there's hundreds of articles about it from blogs and newspapers)

I guess this was the point of his rats nest of limited companies,  Gellaw this that and the other - carefully constructed to protect his personal fortune on the day that it all comes tumbling down
Ultimately, the club has not gone into administration because it has "run out of money", it's gone into administration because MM no longer wants to own it, but is trapped into continuing to own it because he can't find a buyer. And he can't find a buyer because he's got the club into an undesirable state
Administration is the coward's way out, instead of just admitting responsibility and fixing it
The only question to ask yourself is "why would anyone buy the club?"
If there was a way to turn it around from here and make money, then MM would be doing it
 
 

I guess this was the point of his rats nest of limited companies,  Gellaw this that and the other - carefully constructed to protect his personal fortune on the day that it all comes tumbling down
Ultimately, the club has not gone into administration because it has "run out of money", it's gone into administration because MM no longer wants to own it, but is trapped into continuing to own it because he can't find a buyer. And he can't find a buyer because he's got the club into an undesirable state
Administration is the coward's way out, instead of just admitting responsibility and fixing it
The only question to ask yourself is "why would anyone buy the club?"
If there was a way to turn it around from here and make money, then MM would be doing it
 
 

Does anyone know the full story of what happened to Glasgow Rangers? They ended up being liquidated didn't they? Ended up having to form a new club and apply to join the bottom tier of Scottish football and have played their way back through to the top league since?
 
Just wondering if there are any similarities here that might give us an idea of what happens if the club is liquidated

Seems like the perfect summary of our current predicament.

The ticket office under the new owner

I guess this was the point of his rats nest of limited companies,  Gellaw this that and the other - carefully constructed to protect his personal fortune on the day that it all comes tumbling down
Ultimately, the club has not gone into administration because it has "run out of money", it's gone into administration because MM no longer wants to own it, but is trapped into continuing to own it because he can't find a buyer. And he can't find a buyer because he's got the club into an undesirable state
Administration is the coward's way out, instead of just admitting responsibility and fixing it
The only question to ask yourself is "why would anyone buy the club?"
If there was a way to turn it around from here and make money, then MM would be doing it
 
 

I guess this was the point of his rats nest of limited companies,  Gellaw this that and the other - carefully constructed to protect his personal fortune on the day that it all comes tumbling down
Ultimately, the club has not gone into administration because it has "run out of money", it's gone into administration because MM no longer wants to own it, but is trapped into continuing to own it because he can't find a buyer. And he can't find a buyer because he's got the club into an undesirable state
Administration is the coward's way out, instead of just admitting responsibility and fixing it
The only question to ask yourself is "why would anyone buy the club?"
If there was a way to turn it around from here and make money, then MM would be doing it
 
 

I guess this was the point of his rats nest of limited companies,  Gellaw this that and the other - carefully constructed to protect his personal fortune on the day that it all comes tumbling down
Ultimately, the club has not gone into administration because it has "run out of money", it's gone into administration because MM no longer wants to own it, but is trapped into continuing to own it because he can't find a buyer. And he can't find a buyer because he's got the club into an undesirable state
Administration is the coward's way out, instead of just admitting responsibility and fixing it
The only question to ask yourself is "why would anyone buy the club?"
If there was a way to turn it around from here and make money, then MM would be doing it