Betty Swollocks

Its exactly that. Leeds set the precedent some years ago when after being already relegated they announced Admin on the morning of the last match of the season (against us)

On the whole she was pretty good but made 2 bad decisions, not booking their guy for handball and stopping the game when were about to counter attack, after letting the game play on while they attacked with one of their players down.

I'm hearing she's had to ask one of the stewards to reverse her car out of the ref's parking spot at PP. ?

I can see your point regarding staying another season in L1, but I want to get out of this division as soon as possible.  Bring on the Cardiffs and Prestons , they're just a stepping stone onto getting this club back to where it truly belongs. 
 
 

The only home game this year that I've missed but watching the highlights this morning,we were hardly short of good attempts on goal,especially sibleys shot off the bar and mcgoldricks denied goal....any one of which,if successful would have changed our outlook on this game.
 

We were a lot worse at Lincoln away believe me.  
 
As Warne says the Rams started sloppy last night and that happens. 
 
I don’t expect anything this season to be easy after administration and having to work under a business plan .
What we have achieved so far is remarkable really 

Not sure you watched the same game as me.
Didnt play great first half but second half we created lots of chances but just didnt look like it would go in for us.
Dread to think how many chances you want us to create if you class 17 shots away from home as dreadful?

Many of us went to the Baseball ground loads of times. I'm telling you that was a 30,000 plus crowd easily. Its packed! OK putting up the Ley stand raised the capacity a bit, but in those days there was standing on the lower tiers of both the Normanton and Osmaston ends. Also standing on the paddocks. There was no areas lost for segregation  
Great stuff anyway, thanks for finding it and posting it Oldtimeram

Gibson got his bottom lip out when we snatched Martin Waghorn from under his nose, so like the EFL re the threatened breakaway, the Curley one simply bided  his time until an opportune moment arrived. He originally was going to sue the EFL for not giving us points deductions in the previous season. The EFL re-coloured their underpants because that would have opened the floodgates and destroyed them. So they encouraged curly to go for us instead, even though that was against EFL rules. Funny how they never pursued that offence, isn’t it?

I still find it amazing that David Clowes is effectively hamstrung because of Mel Morris’ mistakes.
The club owe debts become of Mel but he has walked away without carrying the bill for HMRC.
As long as David can prove her can fund the club and repay the debts then we should be able to sign players without conditions.

The rules were retrospectively changed to include banning the depreciation method. A method MM told them we were ging to use back in 2015. Why did it take them 4 years to decide there was something "iffy" with the method? The 12 point administration penalty was, using hindsight, inevitable as the debt was unsustainable and MM couldn't/wouldn't continue to pay for the mess he'd made. IMO we got screwed over with the other 9 point FFP penalty. We had stayed, very narrowly, within FFP limits by the depreciation method and the sale of the ground. To me, an advocate of natural justice, the EFL should have recognised their culpability in accepting the method in 4 years' accounts before finally deciding they didn't like it. They used a blanket, cover any and all eventualities clause that gives them carte blanche to take action if they believe something, although not specifically banned, gives a club an unfair advantage. What I feel they should have done was to have told us we couldn't use it anymore and that, either from the 20/21 season or the 21/22 season. We would have been the first club to survive a 12 point deduction. The whole thing would have been sorted much earlier, we'd still be a Championship side and Gibson wouldn't have liked the outcome. A definite win=win situation ?

We breached FFP rules because the rules were retrospectively changed and we were penalised. Unfairly and inconsistently compared with others in the league. What we did clearly wasn’t in the spirit of FFP but the actions of about half the championship are not in the spirit of FFP.

You can normally tell straight away from a players first touch and then what he does next and instantly, you knew he was in control of the ball and always gave himself a couple of options. 
I said to my lad within 2 minutes of him being on the pitch 'this lad looks very good'. 

Looks a talented lad. Smart bit of business and a well-timed one too. Heart sank when I saw Max was injured, but feeling rather less concerned after this lad's admittedly brief cameo. Another feather in the cap for Warne.

Was probably wrong in saying the only reason for the business plan is restricting our ability to compete, clearly they want us to demonstrate we can run properly and pay the bills, but it’s as much about restricting our ability to compete as ensuring we’re run sustainably. The skeleton plan as you say is probably what has the stipulations of no transfer fees or loan fees and wage caps the Derby bit is stating what the budget is and how they will meet it.
Parry bangs on about the integrity of the league. Clubs won’t want a Leicester where they wipe their debts through administration and then assemble a team that got promoted, my argument is with the FFP war against us plus the administration points penalty, not allowing us to pay loan or transfer fees on top is disproportionate. Integrity of the league has already been achieved through relegating Derby into a league they shouldn’t be in, history tells us that.

Maybe the EFL will close the loophole whereby owners of clubs can not only not have an interest other English clubs, but also any other clubs under FIFA jurisdiction. Maybe then clubs like the red dogs, Watford and Wolves will get punished for doing things that were legal at the time?

At the risk of being shot down I’m going to play devils advocate regarding the amortisation issue.  How we applied it is within accounting rules but there were no EFL rules as to how it should be done.  However, in a contract there are explicit and implicit terms.  The EFL, and paraphrasing them they are a body of all 72 member clubs, would argue that straight-line amortisation is implicit as it’s custom and practice within the industry.  They’d also argue that this have is an advantage over the other 71 clubs.  From that perspective you could argue they were right to pursue the case against us.
However, did they need to be so tough, arguably not.  Why did they approve our approach the first place?  Did they confirm to the other 71 clubs that we were choosing to use another legal methodology and inform them they could do the same?  A regulators role is to ensure equality and a fair approach across it’s industry, did they do this in a timely manner?
We all know the answer to these questions and ultimately they failed as a regulator way ahead of 2019.  The thing is, Gibson knew this, hence his “you go for them or I go for you ultimatum”.  And Mel ruffled there feathers far too much far too often.  He picked a fight from day 1.  In a regulated industry you never do that.  You may may not like the rules, but you don’t blame them.  Comply, meet the criteria, then suggest an improvement from a position of strength.  If Mel had had this approach, we may have received a slap on the wrist.  In the documentary on Al-Jazzeera (?) he basically admitted the EFL didn’t like him and that is why we are where we are.

Proof of legitimate funds might prove problematic for one of our near neighbours ?

The amortisation (player depreciation) issue. It's a weird one. Under UK Government accounting rules (FRS102), the methodology used by DCFC under MM (he told the EFL he was going to use that method in 2015, why did it take them 4 years to decide it was "illegal" under EFL rules?) is 100% legal and used by many firms. In 2019 there wasn't a specific EFL rule disallowing its use. 
The first tribunal, which contained some accountants (logical when it's an accounting issue) found the club not guilty. The EFL decided to appeal, on the very last day they could lodge an appeal. The appeal committee contained ZERO accountants to adjudge this accounting issue. They found DCFC guilty. We had to amend and resubmit several years accounts and the end result was we were seen to have broken FFP limits in, IIRC, 3 seasons. That led to the 9 point deduction.
Several months later, the EFL introduced a new rule disallowing the methodology DCFC had used. Yes, that's right. They made a rule to stop anyone else doing it. So, why did we get found guilty. The answer is that they have, alongside the specific rules, a catch all get out clause to the effect that they can decide something is wrong if they feel like it. In this case DCFC was using a different amortisation methodology to the rest of the Championship sides and that was, somehow, despite being legal, unfair to the other clubs.
Did we get shafted? IMO most definitely. Why were we shafted? Again, this is a personal opinion. MM had ruffled too many EFL feathers and was involved in a spat with another SBC club chairman and together they saw a way to "get their own back".
Move to 2023 and it seems Chelsea are doing the same, or something very similar. UEFA will be changing their rules next season to stop anybody else doing it. Chelsea have got in first and will get away with it.
Strangely enough, I'm glad someone got burnt, unhappy it was us but I sincerely hope that the EFL and PL (hopefully UEFA and FIFA too) change the rules in order to ensure no other club can get into the situation we were in.  

AAAANNNNNDDDDD: the amortisation rule, which is a valid method in the real world, wasn’t even on the EFL rule book until early last year, some 3 or 4 years after we were supposed to have broken it.
So thar, along with all the nasty’s which the EFL oversaw during this case should leave the EFL wide open to a restriction if practice prosecution on a massive scale.

It's a fine line that Mel took, Leicester escaped punishment by getting promoted to the protected promised land of the Premiership. QPR did the same (at Derby's expense) and then Villa who was also close to being in the crap got promotion through the play-offs. Mel gambled and it did'nt pay off. I think the EFL wanted to stamp out previous and future gambling clubs by hitting a well known big club hard and that just happened to be us.
The only bug I have with the EFL, was when Muddlesboro and a gobby yank from Wycombe were trying to claim loss of monies for one, not making the play-offs and the other getting relegated because we were not deducted points in 2 different seasons for allegedly wrong doing.  It was down to the EFL to deduct us points in 2 separate seasons for any wrong doing, but they backed them on the arguement.

A number of individuals who were trusted to the club nearly killed us. We were treated unfairly by them. As mich as we can blame the EFL, we knew the rules of coming out of administration and we are still under those restrictions. Personally, I think that is fair and I would much rather be here not being able to spend fees, than having no club to watch

Yes we were treated unfairly by the EFL. Changed the rules retrospectively then punished us with -9 points, other clubs allowed to circumvent FFP with no come back (our neighbours down the road being one), changed the rules to help clubs out during COVID, we should have had our points reduced, we didn’t. Throw in administration-12 points and then a 2 year business plan which has no purpose other than to restrict our ability to compete, it’s nothing to do with whether we can run sustainably. I agree with a points deduction for administration but the 2 year business plan as well is ridiculously harsh. Yes we have been treated unfairly.
The reason we have been treated unfairly by the EFL is Mel Morris, he pissed them off, he pissed off Steve Gibson and the EFL allowed him to wage war against Mel and Derby. We also now know the reason Derby didn’t file their accounts for years was not really due to the EFL action, it was Mel concealing the real situation from the outside world and fans that he was no longer paying the bills.
 
Yes we were treated harshly and continue to be, All roads for our plight lead to Morris, if he’d never darkened our door we’d still be a championship club, possibly better. Thankfully we are now on the rise again with a sensible relatable owner and a relatable passionate and capable management team. I really hope Clowes and Warne can take us all the way to the prem and keep us there with team spirit and work ethic alongside a sensible transfer policy and not the ridiculous approach Forest have taken (it will come back to bite them if not this year then at some point in the next 2 or 3 - look at Everton)

We have through Wigan went into adminastion and as soon as they came out they were allowed to spend what ever they liked.

good post