Asanovic70

His brother sounds like the plod out of 'Allo 'Allo.

You know what, @Crewton, I think we should set up a Just Giving page on the dcfc fans forum. Please give generously. Several Forest fans including Matt Forde & Stuart Broad have offered to do a sponsored cycle ride to raise funds. I volunteered to be the marshal directing them towards the nearest cliff.

'Not financially motivated'. Do me a favour ???

Just googled a quote Brice Samba made to France Football. I managed to translate it via Google. 

Quote

Ah, oui, ce n’est pas une question d’argent, pas du tout, je veux que vous sachiez tous que c’est à propos de mon grand amour pour tout Nottingham, et rien à voir avec tout l’argent que Forest gagnera en Premier League. Merci, serveur, mais j’ai demandé une part encore plus grande du gâteau. Quelle taille ? Oh, environ 50 000 £ par semaine, avec une cerise sur le gâteau. L’oréal, parce que j’en vaux la peine, ma chérie.

English translation:

Quote

Ah, yes, it is not about money, not at all, I want you all to know it is about my big love for everything Nottingham, and nothing to do with all the money Forest will be earning in the Premier League. Thank you, waiter, but I asked for an even bigger slice of the cake. How big? Oh, about £50k per week big,  with a cherry on top. L'oreal, because I am worth it, my darling.

On 03/06/2022 at 17:34, Papahet said:

Random one, but wouldn't be surprised to see us get Charlie Savage for the season.

With us being under restrictions (EFL business plan etc),  that's the sort of imaginative thinking we need. A former Man United legend helping to guide the son of a former Derby player. One of the few bright spots to emerge from the last two seasons is that young players may get thrown in the deep end, but they also get  plenty of support from the manager/coaching staff.

Definitely putting owner ahead of any player, though we've had so many but Mel Morris wins hands down for me. He mortgaged our future when he had the opportunity as a benefactor to give this club real stability or direction. Instead, we are left scrabbling for pennies down the sofa.

Adam Bolder. That goal against Millwall to ensure safety. His spell at Derby was probably the best of his career.

I think Villa are a good barometer. Cooper's impact greater, but Smith turned around an underachieving squad mid-season. Admittedly, they had been play-off runners-up the previous season. Smith's stock was high, he'd done well at Brentford, though Cooper took Swansea to two play-off finishes.

Villa went on to spend big but still needed a final day win at West Ham to guarantee safety. Leeds have spent £150m to finish 17th two seasons later.

Smith is a progressive coach, the damage already done at Norwich by the time he came in, but it shows if you don't have the tools, there's only so much you can do.

Amidst all their euphoria, there was an interesting article on the bbc reflecting on Forest's long spell out of the top flight:

Nottingham Forest: Charting the Reds' 23-year journey back to the Premier League - BBC Sport

I thought this section was relevant to us in our current situation/plight.

Quote

 

It was in the third division, however, that Fray feels Forest found much-needed stability under then chairman and owner Nigel Doughty - who had bought the club for £11m in 1999, saving them from administration - and manager Colin Calderwood.

"You are not going to be right on the pitch unless you are right off the pitch as well," Fray said.

"For so many reasons and for so many years something was wrong at Forest.

"The most stable bit of structure they had in the intervening period, until now, was in that time coming back out of League One, when they had gone to the bottom and were starting to climb back up again.

"It's hard to pick out their period in League One as being anywhere near a successful period in the club's history, but they had the structure in place behind the scenes at that point to get the club back on its feet."

 

That's what we need to do if/once the takeover goes through, use this dismal period to redefine the club in the right direction. The flipside to this is that Forest went on to overspend under Doughty. Clubs don't always learn their lessons or forget the past. Morris had the example of Lionel Pickering, of '07-'08. We are another clear example of this boom & bust cycle.

I thought the banner referred to Mel Morris for a moment, and he'd gone global.

Must get new glasses.

Looking back, Mason Mount was a key player for Derby, and soon after became both a mainstay for Chelsea & a starter for England. I always liked Tomori & was surprised he didn't succeed at Chelsea upon his return.

I really think the lad Garner drove this Forest side on.  Listened to the match commentary, and saw Garner's crunching challenge on Quest & it was also his delivery that led to the own goal. I'd not be surprised if he makes an international breakthrough, maybe in the next couple of seasons, if their new coach opts to keep him & he gets a chance to win a place in the United side/squad. If Forest manage to keep him, as I say, that can only be of benefit to them. 

According to an article from the Manchester Evening News, Corberan tried to sign him last season for Huddersfield & PL sides enquired this mid-season.

Recruitment is key. I've never known a team with so many loans in key areas get promoted, and we had three in our 2019 defeat. You look at Brentford and whilst they changed the front-line regularly, reinvesting in replacements,  the defence & midfield tended to suffer less disruption. They only had one loan during their promotion season & that was more of a back-up (Reid)

In 3x of the last 4 seasons, two promoted seasons have gone straight back down, 4x in six of the last seasons. Only once have all three stayed up (2017-2018) which included Newcastle who retained a lot of players from the PL.

9/18 of the last play-off winners have gone straight back down the following season including ourselves. Three sides finishing 4th have won the play-offs & two, including QPR, were relegated the season after. 

If they retain most of their loans & manage to buy a few outright, they stand a chance. Lose Garner, and then they are already a weaker team. 

In fairness to them, I think they are a better managed side, more fluent, energetic & free-scoring than we were under Billy Davies. That offers them a chance.

But I'm going for relegation. Cooper has not managed in the PL despite his excellent run in the FAC. Parker has more experience & Silva has been sacked twice, and once at a club with more resources (Everton). I think Bournemouth could surprise. They have a few players remaining from their last stay in the PL, and Brooks should return after his illness.

I can't wait for Tom Lawrence to start giving me driving lessons.

Kelle Roos sure knows how to catch a greased piglet

Billy Davies doesn't strike me as the sort of guy who suffers from a persecution complex

It was a great decision by the club to sell Lee Carsley

It was awfully unkind of Matei Vydra to keep scoring against Nottm Forest

I want to see the lovechild of Steve Cooper & Robert Earnshaw

Steve Nicholson replied to one of yesterday's Q&A that the exclusivity period may be extended again.

He made a wry reply when asked if Ashley was still in the background, along the lines of 'Has he ever been away?' I think @LeedsCityRam summed it up, however. Ashley may be a billionaire, but his finances are probably complicated etc, and in the end he is a hard nosed businessman, he won't recoup anything on us unless we do reach the PL, vis a recent offer for Sheff United. It's the game-changer/gamble that Morris believes it to be but he went the wrong way about it. Ashley was able to run Newcastle the way he did (prudently) through that PL revenue rather than his own money. 

CK appears genuine, but is an unknown quantity. MA an unsentimental businessman, but whose approach may be better suited to a club with more modest ambitions than Newcastle's. Heart says CK, head says MA. If only Mel had had a bit more Mike Ashley about him & had sat in the stand in a Derby shirt & a pint in his hand.

I think liquidation won't happen, but if it is MA instead of CK, then we may suffer more points deductions. I hope it's resolved soon (understatement). It's galling to see Chelsea being bought for £4.25bn, to think £45m would purchase us & Pride Park, just over 1% of that offer for Chelsea. I know it is much more complicated than that (London real estate prices).

And then you have Jim Ratcliffe banging on about a British bid for a British club. He owns Nice in Ligue 1 which he bought for £91m. He could have a 'British club' for peanuts in comparison.

Disappointed at Ebosele & his exit, he burst onto the scene, then there was the link to Forest, and relief that he stayed. On the one hand, I understand his decision, the on-going instability at the club, playing in L1, though that didn't do Wes Morgan any harm, a big useless lump who went on to win a PL title.

Ebosele has joined Udinese, exciting as that sounds, he may end up at Watford. If so, he should look at what has happened to Jeremy Ngakia. Ngakia broke into the West Ham side. Understandably, he was perhaps annoyed at then being offered £5k a week (according to reports), before he opted to move to Watford on a free. If he had kept up his level of performances, West Ham are likely to have offered him improved terms. He would have played under a manager known to nurture young players.

What Ebosele may have gained, leaving a basket-case of a club, he may find that he has joined something similar in terms of on the football pitch. How many managers has Ngakia had? Has he really kicked on or developed? Has anyone at Watford taken the same level of interest as Moyes & the West Ham coaching staff did with him? Look at Ben Foster's criticism of his Watford teammates. It sounds like an environment where a young player can sink rather than swim if there isn't anyone to look out for him/mentor him, vis a Curtis Davies etc.

It remains to be seen whether Rooney stays if the takeover drags on, but he'd probably have been a better person to develop under than at Watford with their serial managerial changes & lack of continuity. In fact, Glenn Murray said on 5live that he couldn't even remember the name of one of the managers he played under when he was on loan at Watford.

Still not in a position to sign players, but was reading about Tyler Walker, struggled at Portsmouth on loan, from Coventry. Pacey attacker, confidence may be an issue, but other Portsmouth players spoke highly of him & it may be a case of finding the right club & working under the right manager. 

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/transfer-news/coventry-city-loan-tyler-walker-23887553?msclkid=59f81983d

A damning indictment, if any. Supposedly on £7k a week (& that was with Coventry paying a significant portion of his remaining wages), so depending on circumstances, we may not even to be able to afford him! And in truth, for that money, we need someone perhaps more proven. He has a year left on his contract so Coventry need to ship him out to free up wages. A club would probably get him for less than what Portsmouth were paying.

Clearly, a player who has lost direction & in the last chance saloon. Robins was a striker so you do wonder if he couldn't get him performing on a regular basis, if he'll now just drop the divisions etc.

It appears George Hirst (Leicester) had a good/better season for Portsmouth on loan & is probably better suited to the division.

No, I seriously meant it, you do an excellent job. Family issues mean it's not really possible. That's why I appreciate all the effort you put in. I took over a league after the person who ran it went off-line & invariably you get stuck with it. It might be an idea if a few of us volunteered to help you out, like each going through a particular fixture & sending you the scores to save you a bit of work.

Thanks, Mozza. I've run a prediction league & know how much effort goes in, so plaudits to you. It's a simple, fun league, the number of us participating is testament to that. 

To all the people on 1pt, shame on you, you make Watford look like they were really making an effort.

At getting relegated.

Blackpool 1 - 0 Derby

Derby 0  Bristol City 2

1 hour ago, BramcoteRam84 said:

The next couple of months are absolutely critical.

Yes, I agree, which explains Rooney's sense of urgency about the situation. I do think this squad needs more experience, however, the right sort of experience, and sometimes the sort of unheralded player who has been there & done it, i.e. Richie Smallwood (Rotherham, Hull). Sean Flynn under Jim Smith. Their tenure may be brief but they make a telling contribution, helping to get the side over the line. 

The platform is there, a ball-playing side with an identity can get out of the division (Swansea). Forest appointed Calderwood, whose career since has been checkered, but he molded a side built on Academy players & shrewd acquisitions. I'd like to think Rooney - should he stay - is smart enough to know League 1 & we were linked to Charles pre-season. We'll probably have to play the loan market well, too.

I agree with your point about Ashley . I think the Council's offer/overtures to buy the ground & lease it back to the club could be key. It may be the decisive factor helping to facilitate any takeover.

First, commiserations to our team & management staff for a fight bravely fought. We were always up against it after our owner put us into admin (12pts), the second deduction a real blow, the win at Stoke offered a real glimmer of hope at the end of 2021 but I think the January transfer window sealed our fate (three key blows/factors).

It's taken us two seasons to get out of the third tier each time we've ended up there. There's a healthy dose of realism on this thread, but then it's been a chastening few seasons. Browsing the points totals for the three relegated sides, they are all in the high 70s/one 80+, so assuming the worst happens (-15), another potential massive downer, but perhaps not the obstacle it has been in a very competitive division where we couldn't sign players (January) & lost key personnel & would start from the beginning of the season, rather than mid Sep (as said on BBC Derby, I think). Obviously, I hope that doesn't happen. Until a takeover is official, nothing can be assumed.

Next season, I expect us to be strong at home as we have been this season. League 1 is filled with fallen giants/underachievers (Ipswich, Portsmouth etc) as well as overachieving, well-run smaller clubs. The latter will treat going to Pride Park like a cup final & raise their game, however, few of their players will be used to playing in front of such a large crowd, 20-25k+ (the noise). Rooney has often pointed out how our young players have had to cope with this pressure.

I'm worried that there may be a bit of a hangover from such an emotionally draining season though we hardly have any players left (contracted) to feel drained (I expect Lawrence to depart). As in 1984-85, we may finish strongly with an eye on a promotion challenge the season after (85-86)

Football has evolved, and ball-playing sides can thrive in the lower leagues, however, we need to bring in a few seasoned professionals (26+ in age) & dare I say it, one or two physically aggressive players, who will make up for attitude what they lack in technique/ability. I think we have to win the physical battle first in League 1. Our away record has been poor in 2022 due to the loss of experienced players & overdependence on younger players. The radio commentary on Blackburn away suggested they bullied us second half.

Sides like Wolves & Leicester went up at the first time of asking. I don't expect that, but I think they had pragmatic managers (Pearson's first permanent job) whose sides combined the physical with ability. We need to prepare ourselves that we will have to compete in the same way Rooney adopted a siege-mentality this season with our squad.

Consolidation, hopefully avoiding another deduction & some canny moves in the transfer market, & maybe we can aim to emulate Sheff W for instance. We need to put a platform in place first & build upon it. If we have to stay down for a second season, we may be in a position to make cash signings (if allowed), specifically promising/experienced players (cherry-picking the better ones from the smaller clubs in the division, vis Bolton signing Charles from Accrington).

QPR 1 -1 Derby, RGS Plange

Derby 1 -1 Fulham, RGS Bielik

@Ambitious Great post, you sum up what probably quite a few of us are thinking. Kirchner is an unknown quantity, Mel Morris' tenure, 'money to overcompensate for poor knowledge'. You're very complimentary. What knowledge? The return of GSE, or its new manifestation, GSW, felt underwhelming, but during their ownership, financial restrictions meant that necessity became the mother of invention (the Academy rebooted). I like Andy Appleby, but did not want Rush back in any capacity. As others have just mentioned, if Mr Kirchner surrounds himself with the right people, and listens to them, then that is a positive. 

I was pleased when Ashley's interested was announced before the end of last year. I know business is unsentimental, that he is hard-nosed but he was in a position to declare an interest and outbid all the others if he had chosen to. I was going to post an article from BBC Newcastle following his sale of the club, apparently when he took them over, they had a £70m debt. He could have conceivably taken us over in our current position - complicated finances. I wasn't put off by his reputation at Newcastle. I'd take two relegations from the PL if they meant two promotions back. However, the fact that he stood by whilst we sold youngsters to the elite, to keep ourselves afloat until the end of this season, makes me wonder how serious he was regarding purchasing us.

Kirchner is a gamble, he has moderated his social media postings (current) after his initial over-enthusiasm. The Preston fans are not enamoured of him, but then I don't think Preston were in as desperate position to sell as we are. He was angry when he dropped out of buying us first time round but, in fairness to him, he made criticisms of the situation which perhaps have been proved correct over time (Mel's position over Pride Park, I assume), and I remember, if correct, others on this site wondering if that was the last we'd see of CK as he might return again if the sale remained protracted (I think Simon Jordan also said this on TalkSport at the time as well). For instance, I assume the £5m asked by Quantuma has now been waived, as they went on to raise this amount anyway through player sales etc.

I think all we ask, if Mr Kirchner is successful in buying the club, is that some stability is established, the club stops haemorrhaging players at all age levels, and if we do lose key players, they are sold for their market value (Knight), others probably released due to wages (Lawrence) and any monies (from sales or freed up elsewhere) reinvested in the club/team/squad. We should look to Sheff W as offering us hope for next season if a sale can go through. They have played the transfer market well, bringing in frees from the Championship as well as loans.

Swansea 1 - 1 Derby, RGS Lawrence