Asanovic70

Derby 1 -1 Birmingham, RGS Kazim-Richards

2 - 1, RGS Stearman

Be careful, Steve Gibson might report the DJ to .gov.uk for PPL PRS infringement & demand that we only play Chris Rea until Quantuma are left in no position but to agree to a sizeable pay-off to save the ears of our fanbase.

For someone supposed to possess a lot of integrity, Steve Gibson can sound like a right Mel Morris (The Derby way). A lot of bold statements there rather than quiet confidence. 

A good point about how you manage your resources. Brentford the best recent example of a side maximizing things. Middlesbrough clearly failed to do so as you suggest.

Got involved in a spat with a self-righteous Middlesbrough fan online, who adopted the moral high-ground. OK, Mel definitely broke rules, but this argument that Middlesbrough were somehow at a kind of financial disadvantage is ridiculous when they were  in receipt of their second parachute payment which gives certain clubs an advantage at the cost of their rivals in the division.

They spent millions under Monk, who probably cost them a hefty pay-off (his coaching team). Boro took a Mel Morris type gamble on returning to the PL at the first attempt.

Middlesbrough are eyeing promotion at the first attempt - after £50m spend Garry Monk knows he must deliver | The Independent | The Independent

Quote

 

And then the spending started. Heads really did turn when Middlesbrough went out and spent more than £15 million on Britt Assombalonga. It did not stop. Jonny Howson came from Norwich. Ashley Fletcher signed for £6.5 million from West Ham and Lewis Baker is on a season-long loan from Chelsea. The spending has topped £50 million. It is serious ambition.

(players in italics left on free transfers)

 

 

 

£50m is close to what some sides spend in the PL itself. It may be viewed as 'ambition', but it could also be perceived as coming with risk attached, since, at the time of print, (2017), only 2 out of 18 relegated clubs had gone up automatically.

Mr Gibson is never culpable or held personally to account. According to him, Middlesbrough are always hard-done by.

As an aside, aren't the EFL in danger of undermining the integrity of their own competition? Promotion chasing Stoke & WBA have played both games against us and picked up 1pt in total.

If the EFL prevent any takeover, due to outstanding matters, and then we are forced into a fire-sale with the consequence that we begin to field weaker sides containing U21s, surely this will benefit play-off chasing sides later in the season. Many of those games were challenging anyway, as we have most of the top half to face away, but by forcing us to change our personnel for financial reasons, rather than due to injury problems (which affect all sides throughout a season), they are deliberately weakening us which can only benefit sides facing us later in the season. 

Secondly, they are failing in a duty of care to younger players by making a club field a weakened side. I wonder how many of the youngsters fielded by the likes of Bolton during their relegation season from L1 have gone on to form the basis of their promoted side.

Derby 1 -1 Sheff United, RGS Morrison

As for Wigan, I thought they were treated badly. A Barnsley fan took me to task online. He complained that Wigan took Kieffer Moore off them. So everybody seems to have a complaint about each other.

That's the world of football, even the elite are sometimes forced to sell & very few clubs are in the privileged position of retaining all their players. In fact, it is players & their agents now who dictate proceedings. Look at the likes of Rudiger at Chelsea, CL holders & one of the wealthiest clubs in Europe, as he holds them to ransom whilst other clubs hover to recruit his services.

43 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said:

We were well happy when we got Byrne at a knock down price with no tears for Wigan .There was our football unity. We are going to have to take our medicine and hope we don’t end up like Luton

Well, take it then & don't blinking well complain when it happens.

22 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

Unfortunately, as long as the likes of China or the Middle East still continue to enjoy and pay for the product, the Golden Goose is alive and well. How many DCFC shirts do you think are sold in China? The money men that run the show don’t give a duck about the Bury’s or the Derby County’s of the world. Even if we were in the premier league, it’s not us they’re paying to watch. They don’t give a duck about Brentford or Burnley either. And they definitely don’t care about where football started, any of the history, or frankly any football since before the premier league. If they could get away with showing United vs Liverpool every week, and have every other team go out of business, they would. 

Of course, they aren't. For the dubious privilege of being the equivalent of a Christian thrown to the PL Lion, you get £60m or whatever it is. Or seeing as Norwich quite enjoy being a yo-yo club, the sight of a lion mauling a Canary.

I think there is a lot of self-interest (the likes of Millwall happy to pick up a player for a knock down fee), probably quite a lot of indifference & clubs don't care until it happens to them. So much for the unity of the football family.

The EFL could ask that Middlesbrough & Wycombe drop their claim for the sake of unity in the pyramid system & perhaps setting an unwanted precedent. Both are involved in promotion battles so I cannot see how our 'misdemeanours' have affected them in the long-term. The EFL probably have no real authority to do this, but perhaps a veiled threat that any club involved in a spurious claim against other, could see any possible promotion spot withheld, or savour having to deal with two fixture lists.

Can't see this working but it's like dealing with two naughty children who won't take no for an answer.

46 minutes ago, Rampant said:

Let them take us to court. I'd be sickened if we gave them a penny.

We should send a cheque with that grand sum to Miserable Buggers & Waitrose Wanderers.

Apparently, we also gazumped Boro with regards for a loan deal for Matt Clarke. Sadly, we became embroiled in a battle/personal needle between two chairmen, Gibson & our former owner. You'd think seeing us handed a 21pts deduction & his nemesis/our former owner exiting with losses (soft loans) & the anger of a disappointed fanbase would suffice for Mr Gibson, but unfortunately not.

@StarterForTen

That's a good point, why don't they go the whole hog & ask for £180m? The claim is for a quarter of that which seems to suggest that Mr Gibson knows that promotion was not a forgone conclusion. He had a one in four chance. But then browsing evidence, such as H2Hs, would appear to suggest that Aston Villa were the dominant side.

£45m covers the money Boro wasted on Assombalonga, during that season in question, Boro's second after relegation, Gibson spent millions on Aden Flint, Paddy McNair & Saville (£8m, sold back to Millwall for £1.8m reportedly). That's £20m apparently. How many other sides spent that amount? £45m probably conveniently covers the parachute payment Gibson wasted. OK, they recouped £40m on transfers, but the real failure is to do with how they spent their own money.

Gibson will be claiming next that Mel Morris had Yuri Geller type powers & forced him to sign off all their contracts.

16 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

Should we mention that to Wycombe Wanderers?

This is what I mean, where does it end? It's like a season with the cliche about wrong decisions righting themselves & you don't get relegated because of one game either. It is about other factors like who the manager was at the time. Pulis eventually failed at West Brom & subsequently went on to get the sack at Sheff W after a short period of games. He failed at Boro with regards to his brief of getting them promoted. Middlesbrough appear to suffer from a memory lapse regarding their results against eventual PO winners Aston Villa in the regular season. Whilst boasting a strong defensive record, they were one of the lowest scorers in the division. They lost to the same opponents in the previous play-off campaign.

Wycombe's argument, I'm less sure about except to say that their form across the season was patchy & their end of season run masked the fact that they were poor in the first half of the season & practically in the bottom 3 all season. Again, I'm no statto, but there is that stat about sides getting relegated when they occupy a bottom three spot at a particular time of the season, i.e. Christmas/New Year.

I hope the administrators don't cave in to Boro & Wycombe's claims as an admission of guilt. Middlesbrough did not get promoted not because we finished 6th, but because they weren't good enough themselves across a season. There is no proof that they would have won the play-offs as I showed in an earlier post. They are talking hypotheticals (baalocks, a more appropriate description) & coming up with £45m.

Not well versed with the financial intricacies of our current situation, but the fact that Rick Parry now heads the EFL, one of the original architects of the PL, designed to hand power to a select few at the expense of the many, is beyond irony. Talk about poacher turned gamekeeper.

...Reading have been punished this season for breaching financial rules with a 6pts deduction. Let's start opening a can of worms. Browsing their results last season, they didn't really affect the top positions. However, they took 3pts off Wycombe, but won both games against Rotherham including a win there in late Feb when the home side had to play a number of games that month. If Rotherham had won that game, they would have stayed up at our expense (45pts).

Sympathy to the gentleman & about what happened to his daughter/what she had to endure.

On the subject on Boro & Gibson, Reading finished 7th last season & so avoided any of the controversy we are currently embroiled in, Bournemouth finishing 6th. However, it was the 3rd placed side who won promotion, in our case it was the 5th placed side, Villa. It'd be interesting to find out statistically how often the 6th placed side won promotion via the PO.

Browsing wikepedia, which lists the play-offs from West Ham winning in 2005, the eventual winners placing was:

3rd/8x

4th/3x

5th/4x

6th/2x, 2005 & 2010/Blackpool

Similarly with the runners-ups

3rd/5x (making 13x finalists)

4th/6x (making 9x finalists)

5th/4x (making 8x finalists)

6th/2x (making 4x finalists)

So practically half of the sides who finished 3rd since 2005 have gone on to win promotion, including ourselves. If Mr Gibson thinks that we denied his Boro side promotion, he is being facetious, as they would have had to win through three games to achieve this, & face the side in the final who beat his team comprehensively 3-0 home & away, their worse defeats of the season. Factor in, no side since 2010 finishing 6th has gone on to win the play-offs & only two have reached the final since, one of them Lampard's team in 2019, the one under question. That's 13% in 17 play-offs. 13x the side finishing 3rd has go on to participate at Wembley in 17 seasons.

I wish we would employ lawyers who would argue our case more firmly/forcefully. 

Reading 0 - 1 Derby, RGS Lawrence

Stoke 1 - 0 Derby

David Tepper? (Sam Rush/Appleby) Glick has been CEO at the Carolina Panthers,(since 2018) owned by Tepper. Maybe providing some backing. You could argue why didn't he get involved earlier? 

Maybe wide of the mark. I have to admit I'd take Ashley in our current plight/situation.

Derby 0 - 2 WBA

I was going to post the obvious & say why couldn't one or two of the interested parties maybe work alongside each other. Read on newsnow that Gadsby & Appleby are considering this. The financial state of the club is complex & maybe each consortia can address a particular situation.

As for Mr Kirchner, I thought his initial statements OTT, but he has been more restrained. I feel a little sorry for him, he comes across as enthusiastic, almost like a child, wanting his own football team but instead he's being asked to buy a basket-case instead.

One last point which may not be relevant to our present situation. We are £68m in debt, the figure quoted, and then you flick through the BBC gossip column, to find that one of the elite are bidding that amount for a player. You could argue the same amounts Mel Morris wasted could keep many a fellow Championship/lower league side in existence for decades.

I hope we learn from this situation that it isn't worth mortgaging the club in an attempt to join - quite probably -  the most ridiculous and irresponsible league in the world.

Plange was signed after a successful trial period following his exit from Arsenal. I suppose we've lost players from our Academy (Kaide Gordon)/had them poached & in turn we pick up players released from elsewhere if they are deemed good enough. Arsenal thought Plange didn't have a long-term future with them but still had a bright future in the game. So I suppose the credit here ought to be given to the coaching staff/Academy who recognized he had enough talent to do well for us & was worth being givem another chance. Credit may also go to the manager who pushed the EFL to allow him to play.

You can give Morris credit for investing in the Academy but criticize for not utilizing it enough or as part of some joined up thinking/strategy. It still doesn't excuse the money wasted on Anya etc/elsewhere which is where the real damage lies. 

I always think an Academy is worth investing in, we may have to scale things back if further cuts are made & that will be a blow. An Academy can pay for itself. We've had to depend on it out of necessity this season.

I can't help thinking Mel Morris should have employed this man to represent him, Simon Czoka QC. 

Joey Barton cleared of assaulting Daniel Stendel in stadium tunnel - BBC News

I shall have to be careful how I phrase things, but anyone who can persuade a court that Mr Stendel headbutted a metal structure voluntarily must be very good.

He probably would have been able to persuade the EFL that Mel pressed the wrong option when he compiled our accounting procedures, only fully understanding the procedure after the fourth occasion.

I also don't know what is more disconcerting. The verdict or the fact that Joey Barton is beginning to look like George Harrison. God help us if he releases an album.

I think our manager has done as good a job as can be expected in adverse circumstances that very few managers have had to endure. Leam Richardson has shown that he is a capable manager after last season when Wigan were fighting a relegation battle.

What I am about to say is heresy. Where I question our manager is if he'll be the right man for a massive rebuild. I say that because he's ambitious and maybe he's done enough to earn a crack at staying in the Championship. Nigel Pearson was mostly a caretaker/successful interim before he became the Leicester manager in L1.

I feel that we need a complete re-set & need to go in a completely opposite direction from what has happened by bucking the trend in football where patience has gone out of the window. I realize that I am contradicting myself here by questioning if Rooney is the right man for League 1. I think he is the right man now. He has had to become the de-facto public face/spokesman of Derby County FC  in the absence of an owner & even the administrators, who are operating behind the scenes.

We need to identify a manager/coach who is developing a reputation & is ambitious but would see us as the next level rather than the crisis club who have dropped down a league.

Coaches with proven records at developing good teams with an identity/style, promoting home-grown players & selling them on, but who keep putting out sides that compete despite this upheaval. At the moment, Rooney's job has been restricted, we don't know what he is really capable of in that he hasn't had any money to spend (Last January was Plan B, not A) apart from when Bielik was in the team & we looked a more than good enough side for this division. The personnel available to him mean that he hasn't been able to show his full potential.

.................................

Rooney could still be that person, but the two I would go for, for a re-building job that may take at least two seasons (the inevitable hangover from a difficult period), are Karl Robinson & by way of contrast, Alex Neil, less expansive perhaps but tactically astute & very experienced, an Arthur Cox type figure. It will be interesting to see if Lowe can improve Preston if someone like Neil could not take them any further. Whatever our problems, we remain an attractive proposition. There are the elite, the rest of the PL, and then the sleeping giants/underperforming sides/tradition clubs. There aren't as many as people think.

Nigel Clough's tenure was beset by frustration but it accomplished a slow-build of sorts in the face of a slashed budget. It's probably the approach we need now. An appointment that is mutually beneficially rather than that stock phrase when clubs & managers part with 'mutual agreement' .

A manager needs the reassurance that he will be given time & not sacked after the first sequence of bad results (look at Jack Ross in the SPL) & we need to have someone in the job who can implement something long-term rather than the haphazard approach we had in the last five + seasons.

There's no guarantee with any managerial appointment, but we may make it less risky and more likely to succeed if we look for someone to meet certain criteria. The next appointment (s) are probably the most important in our history and more important than the personnel. They can come afterwards. We may be able to get a managerial appointment wrong once, but not twice, though Leeds went through three before getting promoted back to League 1, but it meant more disruption.