Asanovic70

On 15/02/2023 at 19:36, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

As a fanbase, we probably owe Neil Clement an apology. I seem to remember us hammering him after he wrote an anti-Mel Morris tweet.

I didn't know that, it's only fair & reasonable that he'd stick up for his brother. As for an apology, I'm sure he & his brother must have shared a wry smile as things imploded under Morris and said, 'See? I told you so.'

I would say though that Paul Clement's career as a manager has disappointed. He came across as a gentleman. Of course, it was disappointing that things didn't work out. He can certainly feel a bit aggrieved at getting sacked with the club sitting 4th in the table. Most clubs sack a manager when they are 4th from bottom.

1-1

RGS,  Knight

Wycombe 1  Derby 0

If I was a Forest fan, I'd be enjoying results etc, being in the PL after twenty plus years outside it, (& gloating in our demise) but there'd be a nagging doubt about how sustainable it all is. I'd look at Brighton & Brentford and think I'd rather than scenario TBH.

Portsmouth threw money at things for a period, overseas owner(s) similar crowds (20-30k capacity) and it eventually imploded.

'Our demise': we chucked money at things at second tier level. The PL is literally another league altogether in terms of finance. Footballers are mercenaries, they go where the money is & it is the EPL, spending £800m+ in the January window compared to £188m, the combined spending of the other four major Euro leagues.

They couldn't care less about Nottingham Forest as long as they get handsomely paid. And if Forest, (Bolton, etc) get in financial trouble, they know there will be another foolish club/owner out there willing to pay them.

On 03/02/2023 at 12:00, TuffLuff said:

when you are at a cat 1 academy (or atleast a highly regarded academy) they had is a system in place that had been going for 20 years and was pretty regimented and they know it works. Which is important in that it takes years and years for an academy to get to that stage. The other big thing was that they learnt a multiple of positions and had to be ready to play any position because they could be playing anywhere in an academy game. Now I’m sure this happens at every academy and isn’t too mind blowing as a concept, but he said this was really important because you had to be ‘ready’ to play any position. In simple terms, you had to be an ‘athlete’ essentially. You couldn’t just be technically gifted or a runner, you needed a bit of everything.

This is why I liked Nigel Clough despite whatever criticism (legitimate or not) he receives on here. He came in & rebooted the Academy at a time when we had so few prospects emerging and that took a few years.  He often would ask a player to fill in at another position (make an attacker deputize at full back) as part of their football education so that they gained an understanding of that role, and it might make them realize their overall responsibility to the team & how they often dovetail together since football is also about units and partnerships.

Lionel Pickering (2003), at the opening of Moor Farm, famously envisaged it as producing a steady stream of Academy graduates into the first team ( a team built on them).

I think we are beginning to see that fruition, but it has often come against a chaotic background of two takeovers (2008) & (2022), perhaps a turnover  of staff, so you wonder how much this has impacted upon it. I do think though, we now have an owner (& manager, as well as any future management) who will buy into it as a resource.

On 03/02/2023 at 09:31, Srg said:

They sold all theirs for a lot more money though. Burke, Brereton, Appiah etc

Yes, I agree. We've always undersold our best talent. One thing I'd say about the Forest Academy is that they always nurtured it even in bad times and fallen upon it as a back-up resource (Swansea in recent seasons). We may laugh at them, but Mark Warburton's tenure (FFP/embargo, al-Hasawi) saw several young players promoted to the first team, including Matty Cash.

Let's be honest, Forest have regularly sold Academy/home-grown prospects for eight figures. 

I think we are going to value our players more under own new owner & be less easy to exploit after what happened to us because we are going to have to be a club who has to generate its own income than rely on a benefactor who may then walk away.

I don't know really (Forest's survival), part of me cares as it's our arch rival, the other couldn't care less except, repeating myself, they cannot keep spending sums like this as it is unsustainable. FWIW, I think they'll survive: Bournemouth are out of their depth, Southampton have had too much upheaval. I think Leeds have gone on the sort of run that is ominous, 2W in 17. They were lucky to survive last season. 

The Championship is full of ex-PL clubs who had (lengthy) spells in the PL but are now struggling with finances etc, such as Birmingham, Cardiff. Stoke are backed by the Coates family & look where they are. 

On 5live (Sunday), there was a euphoric Forest fan on the phone-in. He took issue with the criticism that they are buying 'PL survival', comparing it to Chelsea, who spent a similar amount on just a couple of players. To paraphrase, he remarked 'We've only spent £186m on 30 players.' Only £186m! He did make the good point, however, that they do have some younger talent: Gibbs-White, Williams, Johnson.

I used to like Alan Biggs, still think he is a good reporter, but couldn't believe how he admired Forest for setting their stall on PL survival after they signed Lingard (twitter).

 Forest have a 30k stadium, (limited revenue). OK, they will receive a lot of money through tv revenue. While they do have the above players as potential assets, they have spent heavily in contrast to the likes of Brighton & Brentford, both recently promoted in the last five years, but who operate under a completely different strategy,  with owners who are involved in the betting/data industry (Bloom & Benham) and use that methodology with how their operate especially in buying talent (low) and selling high.

Interestingly, Chelsea now remind me of the customers, in the Harry Enfield sketch (I Saw You Coming) who used to buy any old tat for a ridiculous price. Only it's young tat that's ridiculously priced on 7 year contracts.

It's a Smashie smash-up of Julio Geordio & I Saw You Coming.

I thought Burley in particular brought in some useful experienced players coming towards the end of their careers, like Paul Peschisolido & Jeff Kenna, Marc Edworthy as well. The last two were well into their thirties. When you sign such players, the cynic in you thinks 'Are we that desperate?', and yet they disprove that cynicism through their & leadership & professionalism.

Agree about Rob Lee & Gordon Cowans.

I do think with all these signings, there's a good chance of somebody with a pair of boots turning up at a training pitch and everybody thinking he is just another member of the squad.

Dennis Pennis could turn up and get a game.

Does it matter if Forest stay up? They'll receive more PL largesse, yes, but they already appear to have spent heavily on fees, wages & several players 30+ in age with no resale value. Their famed Academy may suffer as the pathway to the first team gets harder with so many established professionals ahead of them. If Lewis O'Brien can get binned after a few months, what hope is there for a young Academy prospect? This may present an opportunity for us to attract them instead, knowing they may get an opportunity at Pride Park especially if we can eventually get back to the second tier.

I agree with the poster who remarks how the euphoria of promotion has turned into a bit of circus. I made the obvious suggestion that they ought to have signed the on-loan players they helped get them promoted, though they have all had a mixed bag of a season, Keinan Davis, Garner (injured) & Spence sent on loan. But they would have been signings that could have been assets &, in a worse case scenario, Forest would have become a yo-yo club but one that hasn't mortgaged itself.

But, seriously, this is not sustainable at the level they are spending for a club of its size (contrast with Brighton). Watching it unfold, is like watching an exaggerated version of ourselves under Mel Morris.

I genuinely think they are heading towards a similar financial crisis down the line. It's not that I wish it, it's just neither of us - and gamblers like me - learn from our mistakes, the cycle of boom & bust, and we've been through it in the mid 80s, the LoG in 2006 after the Three Amigos, Mel Morris. Forest were saved from implosion by the generosity of the Doughty family waiving £75m of debt after Nigel Doughty's passing. Al-Hasawi ran the club in a bizarre manner, leaving them open to sanctions under FFP.

Like us with Mel - He can do what he wants, the Marinakis love-in may ultimately turn sour.

1 - 1 

RGS, Hourihane

The documentary is available on YouTube, it was broadcast in 1997. Anyone interested, just type 'Jody Morris, young apprentice, documentary'.

I should warn that it features Graham Rix before he got done for an underage sex conviction as well as being accused & investigated for bullying & racism as a coach at Chelsea.

I think he deserves the opportunity.

 I can remember a BBC documentary featuring young apprentices at Chelsea Jody Morris & Neil Clement* (both milling about in Harrods), Morris' father was a right Cockney & he came from a very ordinary background (Kensington council estate) so it was a major achievement to win a contract at Chelsea, this before young players' lives were radically altered by the riches of the PL/lucrative contracts. After that, he had a few run-ins, but he's been there & done it, has probably used this experience to mentor young players. It is a great opportunity for him.

Like us, Swindon have had their problems & a new ownership has stabilized things, it seems, and are a club again on the up. It's a club not too far from London so Morris could use his Chelsea links to bring in loans.

*Though middle-aged now, I was too young then to realize that Neil Clement's father was also a famous footballer, Dave, & that Neil is also the brother of Paul who went on to manage us. Sadly, Dave Clement committed suicide so the programme also covered the poignant side of Neil's mother seeing her son emulate his father to become a footballer, and perhaps being concerned about the anxieties that such a career can bring. 

Ebosele could be on his way to Salernitana on loan, so he may be finally getting some more time on the pitch.

Interesting to see what's happened to him, I didn't even realize he had been loaned out to a Belgian club in their second tier. It doesn't exactly sound like progress when you think a player like Burgess went from Portsmouth to Union St Gilloise (top tier) & has been involved in the Champions League.

I think several vultures hovered over us last season, but I do really wonder if several of the young players who left have made the right decision, admittedly finances also dictated. I could understand Plange exiting last season, maybe to remain in the Champ'ship and continue his progress. 

According to transfermarkt, Ebosele has played the grand total of  17 mins in 3x Serie A appearances.

I once hit a cow's backside with a ukulele.

The cow responded with a rendition of 'When I'm Cleaning Windows'.

Port Vale 1-0 Derby

Derby 1 - 1 Bolton 

RGS, Knight

Cheltenham 1 -0 Derby

Derby 1 Accrington 0

RGS, Osula

Derby 1 -0 Cambridge

RGS Osula

Very pleased to be challenging after the dire situation blighting the last two+ seasons. 

I think we can make the play-offs but may fall short regarding automatic promotion. We have to still play most of our promotion rivals away & Bolton is the first acid test. During late Jan to early March, we face Plymouth, Wycombe, Barnsley Oxford & Peterborough, three of the current top six.

I think Warne's magic touch may finally desert him & we miss out in the play-offs, but we'll put together a stronger squad although it will be challenging for Warne to find replacements for the likes of Osula & Roberts, however, I have faith in him to find players of similar calibre if neither return. I wouldn't be surprised if we try to sign Roberts on a permanent or another season-long loan (vis Clarke). He was used to rebuilding squads at Rotherham.

I expect us to overcome any disappointment with a strong showing next season. A slow start maybe, with new signings settling, but gradually dominating the division. Warne will have a chance to implement his ideas in a close season. He trained as a fitness coach and I think we're already improving our fitness levels so that we can keeping going to chase  wins/equalizers. He also probably knows how to manage players to avoid them getting injured, he doesn't seem to rush players back. 

Remember, this isn't his squad, though he's done excellently IMO.

I think League 1 will be weaker next season if the likes of Wednesday do pip us to promotion, the sides at the moment involved in the Champ'ship relegation don't fill you with dread (Huddersfield, Wigan). 

Bolton 1- 0 Derby

Despite this prediction, we do have a good H2H against these opponents. A match between sides with the 2nd/3rd best defences, they may end up cancelling each other out.

Derby 3 - 2 Forest Green Rovers

FRGS, McGoldrick

11 hours ago, B4ev6is said:

...plenty games left Plymouth been slipping up and win all home games coming and two away games were not far away at all from going top our selfs.

Not far from going top? We're 11-14pts off the top three with a game in hand. To bridge that gap we'd need to win several games in a row; the best we've managed so far is two. I agree about Plymouth beginning to falter but then every side usually has a blip. I think Sheff W are the ones ideally poised to finish in the top two as they have played most of the top six away and have them to play at home. Barnsley also have played a lot of the top sides away so could be the dark horses to make a late challenge. 

We're nicely tucked in and still in the promotion/play-off race, which is a positive after the close-season.