GboroRam

There is no such thing a "folk construct strawman fallacy". That doesn’t mean anything. If you mean I have misrepresented his argument then I disagree. He used two stories to support his claim about racism. I have shown that the story about the teacher and the 7 year old is almost certainly not true. Do you think it is true? Be honest and don’t just revert to insults. The second story where he had to listen to complaints from non-whites presumably about whites strikes me as racist against him. It seems like an attempt to guilt trip him just because he was white. Did he have the opportunity to complain about non-white racism? If the “about forty year old woman” was one of the complainers would he have had the opportunity to question the truth of the story? I doubt it. I think that would also be classified as racism. In the current climate even questioning the truth of racism claims is proof of racism. 

Why did he come up with these two stories? Some would say he was angry about racism but I think he probably had an ulterior motive. He was signalling to fellow “wokies” on here that he a “good person” like them.  Nowadays it is called virtue signalling. I’ve not posted much on here about non-football topics because as a “non-wokie” I can see I am an interloper. Don’t bother rushing in with the insults because I’m just going to stick to threads of little interest to wokies. 
 

My old Gran used to say, "Always give your food a rinse before you eat it." 
Lovely woman, terrible sandwiches.

In fairness, until I was nearly 9, every time a teacher asked me a question I'd answer 'because Johnny called me a n***** miss!', even if I'd only been asked 'what is the capital of Spain', or such like. You see I'd not developed a higher order of emotional consciousness at that point and even questions like, 'what would you like for tea' would trigger memories I'd never had. I was nearly 19 before I realised I'd not really wrestled space lizards on Mars. 

Well, there was at session at work where black and mixed race colleagues talked openly about predjuices they havs faced and one of the questions was when did they first become conscious of racism. Shame you weren't there, but sounds like you know it all anyway.
I also don't think you really understand was sarcasm is.

I have a few friends who are teachers and from conversations with them, plus what I've seen at school - it's completely the latter that goes on. They are trying to teach kids to be tolerant and that everyone is not the same, and that if you feel different then that's OK. It's much better to grow up in a tolerant society that let's you live your life in peace, than grow up scared and confused? 
But the way some elements of the media portray it - you'd think they were forcing kids to change gender on a whim, simply by telling them about it. It's like the old Clause 28 thing in the 80s. This idea that you could turn kids gay simply by openly teaching them that "being gay" was a thing. Thankfully we've progressed as a society and we've realised that  not talking about homosexuality doesn't stop people being homosexual. 
I guess the problem is that if you teach kids about it, they will question themselves - but that's a good thing no? Surely an important part of growing up. 
Change the time frame to the 70s and replace TikTok with David Bowie on Top Of The Pops. Parents were saying the exact same thing
Kids just want to figure themselves out, via whatever means available. How many "it's just a phase"s did we all have as  kids? 
My biggest worry is that everything is online these days, so whereas those days I wore black eyeliner to a nightclub are long forgotten - kids are leaving a trail of evidence online behind them of all their experimental ideas

I hear this kind of thing repeated regularly, but it isn't my experience. I've got 5 children in 4 different schools, and I don't know where that idea comes from. Of course there's a more open, tolerant approach to diversity, but does anyone think that the atrocious attitudes towards anyone who stood out as a bit different in "the good old days" were the way to deal with it? Children clearly trapped in an identity struggle, unable to express themselves for fear of being mocked. We were ruthless towards anyone who didn't fit in. That's no longer the case. 
The only time I've known a school set expectations about a child's views and/or opinions was regarding a child who was beginning to show racist and homophobic views openly, and a video circulated with him throwing a nazi salute. This has been treated as highly serious, as he's a radicalisation risk. And if school ignored it, we'd all be up in arms at the handling of it. 
It feels unnatural to allow young children to explore these boundaries, sexuality and self identity. But I'm sure young children throughout time have felt confused, alienated and different because they don't fit the societal norms. It's just become easier to talk about it in modern times, and these children can look at popular culture and see others who are able to go against the norm without being a pariah. If it's handled sensitively, I think it's not a big problem. 

I hear this kind of thing repeated regularly, but it isn't my experience. I've got 5 children in 4 different schools, and I don't know where that idea comes from. Of course there's a more open, tolerant approach to diversity, but does anyone think that the atrocious attitudes towards anyone who stood out as a bit different in "the good old days" were the way to deal with it? Children clearly trapped in an identity struggle, unable to express themselves for fear of being mocked. We were ruthless towards anyone who didn't fit in. That's no longer the case. 
The only time I've known a school set expectations about a child's views and/or opinions was regarding a child who was beginning to show racist and homophobic views openly, and a video circulated with him throwing a nazi salute. This has been treated as highly serious, as he's a radicalisation risk. And if school ignored it, we'd all be up in arms at the handling of it. 
It feels unnatural to allow young children to explore these boundaries, sexuality and self identity. But I'm sure young children throughout time have felt confused, alienated and different because they don't fit the societal norms. It's just become easier to talk about it in modern times, and these children can look at popular culture and see others who are able to go against the norm without being a pariah. If it's handled sensitively, I think it's not a big problem. 

You think teachers are doing the government's woke bidding? That's just cobblers.

It is well over half a century since I left school but by some freak of nature I still have children at school. I know what is going on in schools today. Teachers are commissars. They are instructing children on how they should think and behave in accordance with government guidelines. Any teacher who goes against the current woke zeitgeist is punished. For example, if they said a man cannot become a woman for obvious genetic reasons then they would be harassed and publicly humiliated. If a teacher today expressed the political and social views of an average person of my age they would probably be arrested as well as being sacked.

This summer I was walking through the park with my youngest son and we passed a heavily tattooed woman with a crewcut and half a ton of metal work on a face like a bulldog chewing a wasp. When she passed my son said she was a teacher at his school and she was "transitioning". When I was at school such a person would not have been allowed to teach. She would not have been regarded as someone who could be trusted to pass on the social norms required by the government of the day. Teachers have always been agents of the government.
 

I do try. 
But the problem is that the only way they do kid things is if it's with me. Because all their friends want to do is play online games, watch YouTube, do TikTok dances etc. 
It's hard to drag them away from online stuff and not due to lazy parenting but just because that's where kids live their lives now. That's where their friends are. 
I think if I sent them out building dens and riding bikes that they'd be on their own. 
Another messed up thing is I don't think kids know how to play. We could turn our living room into Vietnam jungles without touching a cushion. We could hold imaginary wrestling belts. And toy soldiers could go up to the bath for some naval combat! 
Now they just seem to lack any imagination. Most of them will watch kids play with toys on YouTube rather than play themselves. 
I've had to show my youngest how to role play with her dolls. What the heck is that about and how did it happen. 
Toys are dying. And so is imagination. Mine couldn't build a den without me if I evicted them into the garden for a full week. 

Perhaps you'd be kind enough to share the details of the alternative group that you have set up if you're so unhappy with how Rams Trust is set up?

It not the discussions it’s the voting that’s the closed shop. Probably a bit similar to the way Putin get voted in to power.

This thread and the over-interpretations within it, whether they be for humour, conspiracy peddling or some other reason, are why it's so disheartening to try and do any good for anything in this world - from football clubs, to kids in war zones, to refugees, the environment, anything.
Sigh ?
All power to you @angieram and RamsTrust.

In fairness, I'm not sure if I was the head of the Derbyshire Rabbit Appreciation Society that I'd be wildly keen on an influx of new members who strongly disagreed with the basic premise of 'We are the DRAS and we really like rabbits' ?

Correct, it isn`t a guitar lesson, its a group who claim to have the best interests of DCFC at heart, which in itself is fine, and something that I`m sure 99%-100% of DCFC supporters want. However, it seems, that unless you agree completely with their mantra, and have a certain political viewpoint, you wont be welcome.
This surely is bordering on authoritarian and discriminatory?
Up to them obviously if they want to make it like that, but equally they cant complain when sections of supporters criticise?
 

RamsTrust members elect the Board, the Board then elects the officials. This is standard policy for all community benefit societies and charities. We are guided on this by the Football Supporters Association - FSA.
We chose Hilary as Chair as she was already vice-chair  - a unanimous choice. 
Unfortunately no one else on the Board could take on the role of vice-chair and we need one so we co-opted Jim Coyle back onto Board - he will have to stand for re-election at next AGM if he wants to continue. He has been on RamsTrust Board previously and has experience as vice-chair.
All DCFC supporters can join  RamsTrust, providing they agree with the aims and objectives - which are primarily around fan representation and good governance. For example  we are staunch supporters of implementing the changes outlined in the Fan-led review and are eagerly awaiting the publication of the Government White Paper with interest.
It's only £2 to join RamsTrust. We are very keen to get more supporters actively involved. You have to be a member for six months to vote in elections. As our next AGM is in  September now would be a good time to do that if you want to get involved - full details at https://ramstrust.org.uk/wp/
I can't really answer your question about the Labour Party as we are not a political organisation per se. It could be that as a co-operative (one member, one vote) and given our aims and objectives we attract people who have a tendency towards that viewpoint, but that is just speculation on my part. What I would say is that there is definitely NO requirement to be a member of any political party. 
We do have several business people on the current Board, I think we are working towards as broad a representation as possible,  really. 

Same here mate.
 
Although it finished my fledging teaching career.

I think you’ve got a point shiny it being almost trendy. You had mods, and then punk, and then goth, and then emo, and this generation you’ve got trans as the edgy alternative lifestyle. 
I’ve got a fair amount of experience of this in our family. On niece identified herself a while ago on Facebook as a panromantic asexual. Happy to have a romantic relationship with anyone, but not particularly interested in sex. She goes by a boys name now, and has a perfectly straight as an arrow boyfriend. It’s a whole new world, and to be honest, it’s taken a lot for the family to get their heads around call her by her new name, or using her preferred pronouns (which is he, so I’ve already messed up several times). The problem in her case is that you could see this happening in university as more of being steered in an unnatural direction by her group of friends, and she clearly had a few other issues.
Her parents are social workers and work with non binary kids all the time, and you can absolutely tell in some kids, so they know what they’re looking out for, and they refuse to use her new name or pronouns as they’re convinced that it’s not the real thing, and they don’t want to further encourage it, and are worried what happens if she goes too far down this path. Will she go full trans? But she’s happy, so does it matter? She’s in her late 20s now, so it’s been going on for a good 10 years now. Hard to just call it a phase at this stage. 
On the other hand, another niece is lesbian. She’s been clearly less Ian since she was about 3 years old, and officially came out a couple of years ago, to no one’s surprise (I think she was a bit disappointed we weren’t all more shocked). She is as stereotypically lesbian as you could ever hope to meet, short hair, deep voice, men’s clothes, but there’s absolutely no question of her being trans gender. She’s a good old fashioned lesbian, and so is her girlfriend.
On the other hand, she had a friend growing up who has gone full trans girl to boy. Operation and everything. Again, it’s been clear since very early, and he makes a great boy, a very nice lad, you wouldn’t have a clue.
so she could have been influenced by that, but wasn’t. my niece is happy in her skin, just not necessarily happy in the clothes my sister  used to dress her in.
Meanwhile, my kids, the youngest of the cousins, are growing up with all these influences. So my nephews and nieces can do what they want, they’re their parents problems. I’m more worried about my kids.
I’m really happy that this is all totally normalised for them. For my generation, there’s still a slightly uncomfortable feeling about gender fluidity, as much as I try to shake it. But for my kids there won’t be any of that.
My eldest is 13. she loves watching supergirl and we watch it together. You’ll not find a more diverse tv series. There’s no question about the relationships in there, it’s all totally normal for her, love is love and all that. So I’m a fan of it being more out there in media, more general representation.
they’re free to make their own choices. However, my two youngest did declare not long ago that they’re going to marry each other, but I don’t think society has quite reached that level of tolerance yet, so I vetoed that idea. They’ve downgraded their plan to getting next door houses instead.
my youngest is now apparently going to marry her best friend at school. Instigated more by the best friend I think. Is that just 7 years olds not really understand what marriage is, and just wanting to be best friends forever, or is that something else? Who knows. But I like the idea that she thinks marrying another girl is a totally normal and okay life choice (just as long as it’s not her brother).
And I don’t think education of it needs to be rammed down their throat, it should be more natural, through representation in media, or in their text books. Unfortunately we’re at that sort of awkward in between stage at the minute where that seems a bit unnatural or forced for the older generation. But eventually we’ll all die, and our kids will inherit the earth.
it’s really not black and white though. As in the different cases of my two nieces. I do believe one has some deeper mental health issues, but she’s happier now than she has been for a long time, so who am I to argue. Whereas the other was no surprise at all. There’s a nature vs nurture issue there perhaps.
maybe it’s just confusing for us.
 
 

I'll preface this by saying that I don't have kids, but I do have younger relatives who often tell me stories from their school.
What you've said is very common and I think a lot of it is just kids going through phases. In fact, I think it's almost 'trendy' to not identify as heterosexual and cisgender, probably due to the prevalence of identity issues in today's media. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing as kids will push boundaries and explore different ideas - it's just different to what we experienced in childhood. Back in my day, for example, it was listening to Slipknot and painting your fingernails black ?
The Ofsted interview thing is a bit weird - perhaps it is a lot to put on an 11 year old - but it's such a huge thing for schools nowadays. I know a very well-renowned school in Derbyshire recently got a poor Ofsted report, and a large part of why was because it didn't address diversity and inclusion enough. So I think they're just making sure all of the boxes are ticked, so to speak.
And, just as an aside, I hate the term 'woke' with a passion. Just a dog whistle used by the GB News brigade, which seems to have now become mainstream.

I thought that stuff was private to moderators??

Anangram?

That would be (meat) Grindr

Hi all,
Does anyone know what options there is at pride park regarding vegan snap? Obviously i know theres chips and salad and a nice lawn near the car park.
Before anyone pipes up being a silly bogger , i was a butcher for 8 years and did bodybuilding and powerlifting for many years so iv eaten more burgers ,steaks,sausages and whatever than most of you ?
 
im in no way saying/telling anyone what to do or what they should eat btw , its just a genuine question.
 
Cheers