ilkleyram

No reason in principle why not but a lot of things have to go right at the same time from player to manager (and that is NOT a comment about our current manager). And above all we would have to have a lot of luck going our way on everything from referees decisions to academy fruitfulness.
If there’s anything I worry about about David Clowes’ ownership is his relative wealth. He’s clearly a rich man by any stretch of imagination. Good for him.  But he isn’t football rich it seems to me even at championship level never mind PL level. When you have clubs effectively owned by countries rather than individuals then having a couple of hundred million isn’t enough, especially if you then want your club/business to be self sustainable.  
There are reasons why very few (can’t name any but I presume there are some) football clubs are actually self sustainable and genuinely have income greater than expenditure. I doubt any in the PL actually are, nor the championship for that matter and so for us to get there requires someone to spend/gamble enough to make it possible or take a long time (and have a lot of patience). We’re not a club with a lot of patience from top to bottom as these pages often demonstrate.
I don’t know how many years of watching live football I have left.  I’ve done 60 or so. David Clowes’ relative financial weakness is a huge problem for football as a whole and is the result of FFP and TV plus feeble football administration. I live in hope that we will gain two promotions in the next 10 years or so and that I see it,  but I’m not expecting it. We certainly can’t win anything in the top league any more other than individual matches. I am just glad that I have lived through the golden age of football when football life was simpler, fairer and better. And we were good.

No reason in principle why not but a lot of things have to go right at the same time from player to manager (and that is NOT a comment about our current manager). And above all we would have to have a lot of luck going our way on everything from referees decisions to academy fruitfulness.
If there’s anything I worry about about David Clowes’ ownership is his relative wealth. He’s clearly a rich man by any stretch of imagination. Good for him.  But he isn’t football rich it seems to me even at championship level never mind PL level. When you have clubs effectively owned by countries rather than individuals then having a couple of hundred million isn’t enough, especially if you then want your club/business to be self sustainable.  
There are reasons why very few (can’t name any but I presume there are some) football clubs are actually self sustainable and genuinely have income greater than expenditure. I doubt any in the PL actually are, nor the championship for that matter and so for us to get there requires someone to spend/gamble enough to make it possible or take a long time (and have a lot of patience). We’re not a club with a lot of patience from top to bottom as these pages often demonstrate.
I don’t know how many years of watching live football I have left.  I’ve done 60 or so. David Clowes’ relative financial weakness is a huge problem for football as a whole and is the result of FFP and TV plus feeble football administration. I live in hope that we will gain two promotions in the next 10 years or so and that I see it,  but I’m not expecting it. We certainly can’t win anything in the top league any more other than individual matches. I am just glad that I have lived through the golden age of football when football life was simpler, fairer and better. And we were good.

Great post.  I concur fully. 
I too am not sure I will ever see us in the top flight again in my lifetime 

No reason in principle why not but a lot of things have to go right at the same time from player to manager (and that is NOT a comment about our current manager). And above all we would have to have a lot of luck going our way on everything from referees decisions to academy fruitfulness.
If there’s anything I worry about about David Clowes’ ownership is his relative wealth. He’s clearly a rich man by any stretch of imagination. Good for him.  But he isn’t football rich it seems to me even at championship level never mind PL level. When you have clubs effectively owned by countries rather than individuals then having a couple of hundred million isn’t enough, especially if you then want your club/business to be self sustainable.  
There are reasons why very few (can’t name any but I presume there are some) football clubs are actually self sustainable and genuinely have income greater than expenditure. I doubt any in the PL actually are, nor the championship for that matter and so for us to get there requires someone to spend/gamble enough to make it possible or take a long time (and have a lot of patience). We’re not a club with a lot of patience from top to bottom as these pages often demonstrate.
I don’t know how many years of watching live football I have left.  I’ve done 60 or so. David Clowes’ relative financial weakness is a huge problem for football as a whole and is the result of FFP and TV plus feeble football administration. I live in hope that we will gain two promotions in the next 10 years or so and that I see it,  but I’m not expecting it. We certainly can’t win anything in the top league any more other than individual matches. I am just glad that I have lived through the golden age of football when football life was simpler, fairer and better. And we were good.

Archie Gemmill. Not our greatest ever player but the best midfielder we’ve ever had with skill, pace off the mark, tackling and an indomitable spirit that refused to accept losing. He would transform this team and any we’ve had over the last 25 years as well, through force of personality alone. Willie Carlin on steroids and Willie transformed what became a really good side. Archie was better.

Archie Gemmill. Not our greatest ever player but the best midfielder we’ve ever had with skill, pace off the mark, tackling and an indomitable spirit that refused to accept losing. He would transform this team and any we’ve had over the last 25 years as well, through force of personality alone. Willie Carlin on steroids and Willie transformed what became a really good side. Archie was better.

Archie Gemmell for the reasons put forward by ilkleyram

Saved me posting exactly the same as above , though I seen some derby greats 

Archie Gemmill. Not our greatest ever player but the best midfielder we’ve ever had with skill, pace off the mark, tackling and an indomitable spirit that refused to accept losing. He would transform this team and any we’ve had over the last 25 years as well, through force of personality alone. Willie Carlin on steroids and Willie transformed what became a really good side. Archie was better.

Archie Gemmill. Not our greatest ever player but the best midfielder we’ve ever had with skill, pace off the mark, tackling and an indomitable spirit that refused to accept losing. He would transform this team and any we’ve had over the last 25 years as well, through force of personality alone. Willie Carlin on steroids and Willie transformed what became a really good side. Archie was better.

Archie Gemmill. Not our greatest ever player but the best midfielder we’ve ever had with skill, pace off the mark, tackling and an indomitable spirit that refused to accept losing. He would transform this team and any we’ve had over the last 25 years as well, through force of personality alone. Willie Carlin on steroids and Willie transformed what became a really good side. Archie was better.

Archie Gemmill. Not our greatest ever player but the best midfielder we’ve ever had with skill, pace off the mark, tackling and an indomitable spirit that refused to accept losing. He would transform this team and any we’ve had over the last 25 years as well, through force of personality alone. Willie Carlin on steroids and Willie transformed what became a really good side. Archie was better.

Archie Gemmill. Not our greatest ever player but the best midfielder we’ve ever had with skill, pace off the mark, tackling and an indomitable spirit that refused to accept losing. He would transform this team and any we’ve had over the last 25 years as well, through force of personality alone. Willie Carlin on steroids and Willie transformed what became a really good side. Archie was better.

We go on about a lot of things on this forum that we have zero influence over. 
Or perhaps we have a bit of influence somewhere along the line. Maybe just maybe fan dissatisfaction with wasting time influenced this season’s changes for example. Maybe not but we should live in hope otherwise what’s the point? 

Ah. Thank you 

If they saw it and thought it was handball then they were wrong and unlike 99% of the people watching they were a) close to the action and b) have gone through significant amounts of training to help them make the right decision 
They have to be certain - nothing to do with the attackers having an overload or giving the benefit of the doubt to them otherwise he should have given the 3 other clangers he made in our favour (which the crowd also saw). The ref clearly wasn’t certain otherwise why go to the lino? And if the lino saw the incident he would/should have seen it wasn’t handball. If he didn’t see it then they shouldn’t have given the free kick nor send Joe off. 

I can’t. He gave himself time to think about the decision - which is good - by going over to the lino.  In itself that suggests he didn’t have a clear view and therefore couldn’t be certain that Joe had handled the ball and therefore he couldn’t send him off (or give a foul).
The lino had the better angle of sight. If he saw a handball (which clearly he could not have done) then he could have said so when they conferred. What he should have said to the ref was either that he didn’t see it and was looking elsewhere (not unreasonable) or that he saw it clearly and no handball. If he said that he saw it hit Joe’s arm then he was wrong.
As @angieram says, they both guessed. Wrongly. We may still have lost but we also may have won or drawn. Our chances of either of the latter two options were significantly reduced by his decision.
One other minor point. If you look how the ball bounces off and away from Joe it’s clear that it hits a solid part of his body. If it had hit his hand it would more than likely have bounced down given the angle of his arm. The ref should have reflected on that in his decision making - they were fresh out of half time, not tired and should have been well attuned to the game so had no excuse. 

Oh, I agree. These things happen when humans are involved.
But that doesn’t mean that we should shrug our shoulders (as per your emoji) and excuse a guy (who has previous with us) who not only got this major decision wrong but also 3 others, each of which would/could have changed the scoreline in our favour
And, it might have looked like handball from 100 yards away up the other end of the pitch but he was 10 yards away at most, albeit with a slightly obscured view; the lino was 20 yards away with no obscured view, and the laws say they can only give the freekick and send Joe off if they saw what happened, and they didn’t.  
If they saw the incident they saw it wasn’t handball; if they didn’t see it they can’t give it. And the whole point of training referees is to get them to get the big decisions in a game correct.

I can’t. He gave himself time to think about the decision - which is good - by going over to the lino.  In itself that suggests he didn’t have a clear view and therefore couldn’t be certain that Joe had handled the ball and therefore he couldn’t send him off (or give a foul).
The lino had the better angle of sight. If he saw a handball (which clearly he could not have done) then he could have said so when they conferred. What he should have said to the ref was either that he didn’t see it and was looking elsewhere (not unreasonable) or that he saw it clearly and no handball. If he said that he saw it hit Joe’s arm then he was wrong.
As @angieram says, they both guessed. Wrongly. We may still have lost but we also may have won or drawn. Our chances of either of the latter two options were significantly reduced by his decision.
One other minor point. If you look how the ball bounces off and away from Joe it’s clear that it hits a solid part of his body. If it had hit his hand it would more than likely have bounced down given the angle of his arm. The ref should have reflected on that in his decision making - they were fresh out of half time, not tired and should have been well attuned to the game so had no excuse. 

I can’t. He gave himself time to think about the decision - which is good - by going over to the lino.  In itself that suggests he didn’t have a clear view and therefore couldn’t be certain that Joe had handled the ball and therefore he couldn’t send him off (or give a foul).
The lino had the better angle of sight. If he saw a handball (which clearly he could not have done) then he could have said so when they conferred. What he should have said to the ref was either that he didn’t see it and was looking elsewhere (not unreasonable) or that he saw it clearly and no handball. If he said that he saw it hit Joe’s arm then he was wrong.
As @angieram says, they both guessed. Wrongly. We may still have lost but we also may have won or drawn. Our chances of either of the latter two options were significantly reduced by his decision.
One other minor point. If you look how the ball bounces off and away from Joe it’s clear that it hits a solid part of his body. If it had hit his hand it would more than likely have bounced down given the angle of his arm. The ref should have reflected on that in his decision making - they were fresh out of half time, not tired and should have been well attuned to the game so had no excuse. 

Charlie George - by a long way the best footballer I’ve seen in our shirt. Vision, pace, skill and an attitude. Could pass like few others I’ve ever seen including the modern era.
Can’t remember where we were going - we’d started early - but 9 of us in the back of a works transit with no seats. There were even more coming back. Broken down train with no heating coming back from Brighton midweek comes a close second 
Any time the ref falls over. Always makes me laugh.
Accrington Stanley - proper ground, warm welcome before, during and after, proper fans with plenty of access to other clubs higher up but stick with their local team
The obvious ones are the trophies - 2nd division, 1st division, Texaco,Charity Shield - but winning v Rotherham to go up was fantastic, so was Stuart Webb saving us even though it lead to Maxwell (we didn’t know what was to come). Clowes taking over just about tops it though. I cried when I heard the news, rang my son, we both cried - relief and pure joy in equal measure. The reflected pride comes in one of our own having the resources and the courage to take us on at our lowest moment.
 

The same ex pros who, as "pundits" and "co-commentators" explain away all the "5hithousery" we all dislike as being "part of the game". Timewasting is against the Laws of the game. Feigning injury too. Preventing the quick taking of a throw or free kick by picking the ball up and wandering off with it or standing 5cm from the ball so it can't be kicked when the Laws state they should retire 10 yards IMMEDIATELY. The all in wrestling in the box as well. All this crap is against the Laws of the game. Ex pros still think it's part of it. It all started in South America and Southern Europe and it crept into the game worldwide for one reason only. Refs let them get away with it. Give free kicks, penalties, cards. Everything the Laws give them the power to do. It'll stop, but only if refs are consistent.
Of course, all of this is in the revised instructions given to refs this season. Some are complying, some aren't, others do it inconsistently. Almost all of those new instructions are not new Laws. They have all been in the book for decades. Refs just haven't applied them. They need to start doing so. 

Charlie George - by a long way the best footballer I’ve seen in our shirt. Vision, pace, skill and an attitude. Could pass like few others I’ve ever seen including the modern era.
Can’t remember where we were going - we’d started early - but 9 of us in the back of a works transit with no seats. There were even more coming back. Broken down train with no heating coming back from Brighton midweek comes a close second 
Any time the ref falls over. Always makes me laugh.
Accrington Stanley - proper ground, warm welcome before, during and after, proper fans with plenty of access to other clubs higher up but stick with their local team
The obvious ones are the trophies - 2nd division, 1st division, Texaco,Charity Shield - but winning v Rotherham to go up was fantastic, so was Stuart Webb saving us even though it lead to Maxwell (we didn’t know what was to come). Clowes taking over just about tops it though. I cried when I heard the news, rang my son, we both cried - relief and pure joy in equal measure. The reflected pride comes in one of our own having the resources and the courage to take us on at our lowest moment.
 

The bright note, and I really hesitate to use that expression with such news, is that our medical team and physios are used to dealing with this injury.  Hopefully that will help Jake.  And in the darker moments not only will he have Fozzy but he'll also have Fozzy's example - you can get back to full fitness and the first team after an ACL

The bright note, and I really hesitate to use that expression with such news, is that our medical team and physios are used to dealing with this injury.  Hopefully that will help Jake.  And in the darker moments not only will he have Fozzy but he'll also have Fozzy's example - you can get back to full fitness and the first team after an ACL