StantonRam Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 "If I was the manager I would go for it. Play entertaining attacking football see where it takes us. We wont make the play offs in our current style and tactics, so lets experiment for the rest of the season. Even try out a player from the u23s. At least we would have a head start on our rivals by playing our remaining 15 games like pre-season matches. we have nothing to lose, because with our current points tally, we are not going to get relegated." Yep, spot on, and with the pressure off then ironically if the teams above us slip up we might even just sneak in there and do a Blackpool LOL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ram1964 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 10 minutes ago, LondonRam2 said: hi all OK, contrary to my earlier post today, tonight's results have made things look very different. A win tonight would have kept us in the mix but as things stand we're now 8 points adrift. This season is now dead, and it doesn't matter if we finish 7th or 17th TBH, time to look ahead and plan ahead. This season is a flop, so let's look at why and what can be salvaged. Causes - 1. Pearson - if they had gone to Mac instead of him last summer I think we'd be probably 10-12 points better off and in the top 6 (but probably not top 2, we're just not mentally tough enough - see below). 2. The same inconsistency and inability to kill off average quality teams that was evident 2 seasons ago - remember Millwall away, Huddersfield away, the same pattern becomes evident, high scoring games, nervousness, cock ups, sudden dips in concentration etc. 3. The squad is too large and players signed by PC and NP are still here and some are contributing not very much compared to the old guard, many signed by Nigel Clough, but they in turn just don't quite have what it takes to get out of this division. I don't think we'd miss Blackman, Vydra or a few others I could name. I've said it before - we need quality not quantity. 4. Mac - many fine qualities as a coach but too emotionally close to the players, treats them as human beings rather than pieces on a chess board, that makes him a good human being but a flawed leader, not ruthless enough to have a really good clear out when needed and get stuck in. We reflect his qualities in our play - skilful, often great to watch, but lacking the killer instinct. We are the Alfa Romeo of this league - great to look at but unreliable. 5. It would have been better to have lost v West Brom in the FA cup. The energy, time, injuries etc expended in the 2 games against the Foxes might have actually cost us promotion. No point in beating a PL side if you can't beat Bristol City or Cardiff! 6. We miss Thorne, and the fact is that no one else has stepped up and done what he used to do, not addressing this properly was a big mistake, but the biggest mistake was playing him v Ipswich last summer in a game that didn't matter, how dumb can you get? Cures - 1. In between the remaining games, tough decisions need to be made behind the scenes - who stays, who goes, who we need. Planning for the summer transfer window should start now. 2. We need to move about 10-12 players out and buy only 3 or 4 PL quality players who are hungry and have things to prove. They are out there and we have to find them. 3. Somewhere on the staff we need a hard man - neither Mac nor Chrissy Powell nor KP have the ability to give out a good b*****king and still command respect - or at least a 'consultant' to do the dirty work. 4. Hours and hours and hours of training ground stuff before the new season - Mac is good at this. Basics of technique, drills for each position/formation, fitness and stamina, mental preparation/sports psychology, whatever it takes, so that next season we TAKE NO PRISONERS! 5. It has to be this way otherwise the likes of Hughes/Ince/Christie will be gone, we can't keep telling them "one more season", if Hendrick can sign for a PL side for 10 mil then so can they. 6. If Thorne is unavailable we need a hard man in front of the back 4. Neither Johnson nor de Saart have the required qualities. Thorne would need a deputy of similar quality anyway as he's made of glass. Top priority therefore is to sign Thorne Mk2, spend 10 mil if we have to, move 6 players out if we have to. Let's start thinking about next season, at least it might cheer us all up a bit. COYR!!! LR2 Have to agree with everything you have said,team is a bit of a mish mash through numerous purchases by several manager's. irrespective of our poor start to the season the last three or four performances have shown we just arent good enough to compete for promotion. Comprehensive changes need to be made and if we dropped lower in the leauge by blooding a few youngsters to better the club i wouldnt be so bothered.Realistically even if we were to make the play offs teams on present form such as leeds,norwich,sheff would have us over. An entertaining season for lots of reasons and one that i will wish to forget. Dispite the disapointment we have been through worse and appear to be in good hands so long as Mel doesnt lose intrest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deano180 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 1 minute ago, ram1964 said: Have to agree with everything you have said,team is a bit of a mish mash through numerous purchases by several manager's. irrespective of our poor start to the season the last three or four performances have shown we just arent good enough to compete for promotion. Comprehensive changes need to be made and if we dropped lower in the leauge by blooding a few youngsters to better the club i wouldnt be so bothered.Realistically even if we were to make the play offs teams on present form such as leeds,norwich,sheff would have us over. An entertaining season for lots of reasons and one that i will wish to forget. Dispite the disapointment we have been through worse and appear to be in good hands so long as Mel doesnt lose intrest. We look a mish mash because of poor decisions across the club over the past 2 years. Wavering away from the clubs vision of sustainable playing formations and turn over of managers with poor recruitment have contributed the most in my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967Ram Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 1 hour ago, MuespachRam said: Guess what......? It wouldn't have been over if we hadn't rested everyone and his Grandmother for an easy game against the reserves of the most out of form team in the country with zero confidence in the FA Cup.... big big big mistake on the managements side. I think you may be right. I sort of understand why it was done (don't agree with it though) BUT it massively back-fired when it went to extra-time. However, we should have done much better in the last two games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 I think that this result should do us a favour and lower expectations from the fans... Just let the team enjoy itself..... And yes,we will concede but Mac will learn from the squad and it's mistakes. I never expected promotion after Pearson ruined the squad and we aren't good enough yet anyway.. So let's just say and learn and be ready to go for it next season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 40 minutes ago, archied said: Pearson is not the reason we are not in the play off places ,,, Mac came in and we went on a run and got in the top six ,,, we then bottled it ,, we have had chances to get back in the mix and we bottle it ,, a culture of getting into prime position then folding has engulfed the club ,,, we need a total clear out and rebuild from Mac down ,, sorry if this seems like a flash ,rash reaction but it's sadly true ,we are repeating the same scenario over and over again Did you expect us to keep up the form we were in until the end of the season? Fed up of hearing this 'bottled it' rubbish. Over the whole season we have not been good enough, that's all it comes down to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilwellram Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Having seen the last 2 games i think the players and the management have taken us as far as we can expect to go ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philmycock Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Let's just play and enjoy every game with no pressure and with the mindset that we're planning for next season, then welcome back Chris Martin, George Thorne, Craig Forsyth and start with a bang with a bang-oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 1 hour ago, MuespachRam said: Guess what......? It wouldn't have been over if we hadn't rested everyone and his Grandmother for an easy game against the reserves of the most out of form team in the country with zero confidence in the FA Cup.... big big big mistake on the managements side. I agree.....but if we'd beaten Leicester and then folded in these two games, everyone would be saying that we over exerted in the cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Le Mesmer Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 The season is still alive if we believe. It's not insurmountable that the points deficit could be made up. It's looking unlikely but football is weird sometimes. The old cliché springs to mind - take each game as it comes. What i don't quite understand is how the likes of Preston and Barnsley are doing so well compared to Derby . Barnsley in particular are made up of mainly players from lower levels and on top of that they've lost three of their key players in Winnall, Bree and Hourihane yet they are still ahead of Derby. Why is this? Derby are one of the biggest clubs in the division but if you've got the wrong players and the wrong mentality it doesn't matter how big you are or how much you've spent. I think some of our players are taking it too easy if I'm being honest and they don't really 100% believe in what they are doing. I believe the season is not over but do these players believe it too? Forget the other teams. If we win consistently then we'll be up there without a doubt so it's down to those players now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafiabob Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 I would have been happy with a transition season from the start..... but doesn't seem much transition..... next summer is now absolutely massive on and off the pitch..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Tony Le Mesmer said: The season is still alive if we believe. It's not insurmountable that the points deficit could be made up. It's looking unlikely but football is weird sometimes. The old cliché springs to mind - take each game as it comes. What i don't quite understand is how the likes of Preston and Barnsley are doing so well compared to Derby . Barnsley in particular are made up of mainly players from lower levels and on top of that they've lost three of their key players in Winnall, Bree and Hourihane yet they are still ahead of Derby. Why is this? Derby are one of the biggest clubs in the division but if you've got the wrong players and the wrong mentality it doesn't matter how big you are or how much you've spent. I think some of our players are taking it too easy if I'm being honest and they don't really 100% believe in what they are doing. I believe the season is not over but do these players believe it too? Forget the other teams. If we win consistently then we'll be up there without a doubt so it's down to those players now. I think to get some consistency in results we need to get some consistency in team selection. I know we have suffered with injuries a bit but at this stage of the season we don't want players starting one week then not even in the squad the next week. The decision to shuffle the pack against Leicester could really be biting us on the arse right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 6 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Did you expect us to keep up the form we were in until the end of the season? Fed up of hearing this 'bottled it' rubbish. Over the whole season we have not been good enough, that's all it comes down to. Fair enough ,bottled it is perhaps not the best way to phrase it but it's hard to deny that we do have a culture of getting into good positions then losing form dramatically , now I can't say whether it's because our game approach subtly changes when we get into good positions or if it's the manager not being able to instill that mindset and belief that gets good teams over the line or whether our players are not able to take that mental step up but it certainly is something that needs looking at and addressing , from our squad we should be able to pick a team that can be far more consistant than we see ,, this is not a rant of somebody with far too high expectations being dashed ,it's a point that needs looking at rather than being swept under the carpet ,, Pearson is gone , we put a good run together and got in position to compete ,,it's not a case of then finding we don't quite measure up to the top sides in our division ,, it's absolutely inexplicable performances against the poorer sides once we get in position to kick on,,, 3/3 home to Bristol? 3/4 home to Cardiff? ,, my gut feeling is we would be winning those two games if we were mid table chasing the seemingly unreachable play offs? Then within that it seems that no matter who we put in from a large squad of decent players they fall into that rut, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 7 hours ago, LondonRam2 said: Also, my point about Pearson was that his attempt at a total Mike Bassett-esque change to "4-4--f******-2" probably cost us 10-12 points, but I agree that even if we were in the top 6 now we might still have bottled it in the end as you suggest. We have lost 18 pts from the last 10 games, Pearson is not the reason. We are where we are because we are a good championship side and no more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Root cause? I'm sorry but the tinker man sits in the directors box. I know he's local, I know he has money, I know he is held in some sort of reverence by some... But I don't know he can run a football club. I have not seen much proof of this since he came... Nice academy which won't necessarily produce much more than one without our facilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdave85 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Our season was over long before Mac came in. We were given a free hit this season, we still have it. Play offs or promotion were never realistic goals from where we were and our recruitment. We're a good championship side, anyone who believes we're anything more either has an entitled opinion of "we deserve to be promoted" based on previous seasons. Doesn't work like that in real life. Look at Brighton, they've worked solidly for a number of seasons to get where they are. I wouldn't have picked any of the teams between 3-6 to be there now apart from Sheff W based on last season. Hell, look at Villa, and even Norwich. According to some posters they were meant to walk this. Even with Villa signing all our supposed targets they lost at home. Im not a happy clapper, I know our team needs work, I'm not at all happy with throwing away a 2 goal lead. Just all the doom and gloom that appears on here after each defeat makes me embarrassed to be a fan at times. Support the Rams, we don't have a god given right to be in the playoffs each season. Im going to give the lads my full support between now and May, who knows what could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 At least it is entertaining and we are seeing some exciting games....let's not get too down in the dumps. If we go on a little unbeaten run we could get back in the mix.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StantonRam Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 I think that the frustration on here is due to the fact that one week we play brilliantly and hold our own against Premier League teams, the next week we implode against mediocre Championship sides. It's almost as if our admittedly individually talented bunch don't really think they have to exert themselves too much against the honest, ordinary, workmanlike but often more cohesive teams that mostly comprise this division, hence us taking the foot off the gas last night after 35 minutes thinking the points were in the bag. A well organised team can be greater than the sum of its parts. Tactics also make a difference. This is why Burton beat us a few months ago, and it also explains the last two games. Because we have money and options we have become spoiled and with a rather misplaced sense of entitlement that we rightly criticise in fans of certain other teams (Man U for example). Time to man up and concede that in this division results have to be earned with blood, toil, tears and sweat rather than with money, individual skill, pampering and arrogance. That goes for management, players, ownership...and some fans as well. If we learn from all this then the season won't have been a waste. In any event it's certainly not been short on entertainment! 2014 Playoff final defeat, 2015 final day defeat, 2016 playoff defeat. To finish outside the playoffs this time will actually be a blessing. Get everyone properly rested and back from injuries, make some tough decisions, get the right mix of talent in here, have a good pre season and then add some humility and also some ruthlessness all round and next season could be THE ONE! COYR!!! LR2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cook1988 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Yes we lost but look wen was the last time we lost at home? We went 10 games without a goal conceding. With this team. Two games of craziness and people go mad. Beat Burton and go on a run (hopefully). Yes this season looks out of sight but mac wasn't here at start of season took over from shambles Pearson. Let's judge him after one full season starting from next. To be honest I hope we don't get 6th spot as this team is not ready for prem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doodle Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 A big overhaul is required within the club if we want promotion. We shouldn't get carried away with thinking all will be rosy when Martin returns. He will help yes but be world beaters no. As it stands there are 10 better teams than us in this division and only 3 will go up. 3 very rich teams will come down so a lot of work is needed. We have blown our best chance of promotion 2/3 years back. There were a lot of mediocre sides around the top of this division back then, not so now. It's going to take either a big loss in money to rid the squad of players who we have paid big money for. We will only recoup a tiny % of our out lay and I've no idea if this can be done with FFP or even if Mel is willing to bankroll it. The other alternative is to plod on for 2/3 seasons until these players contracts expire. We should use the rest of this season to experiment with players and systems. Maclaren is often described as a one trick pony, we all know this and it does provide for entertainment, however not success to date. He needs to adapt too. We haven't got the ideal personnel for 4-3-3 as it stands, so let's try a different formation, try building a system to fit the players rather than the other way round. We may by experimenting discover a hidden gem of a partnership or system. If not at least we start next season knowing what the squad is capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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