curb Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 We're paying the majority of their wages, or we paid them up front to get them out of the club. How much do you think we've spent this season on players who have only played a handful of games for us? 1-2 million? 2-3? What difference could that have made to our points tally? But that's OK because his name's Clough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Admin expenses and interest in a nut shell. The loss includes amortisation of signing on fees etc (non cash transactions) Yes I know that but what I am not getting is we have one of the highest revenues in the league, which everyone knows we should be increasing, we have one of the best wages to turnover ratios, yet we still make a loss and have done a lot of cost cutting.... just doesnt make sense are football clubs really that much of a money drain or badly run business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Curb, are you referring to Leacock, Bywater and Pearson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BondJovi Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 All managers make mistakes with signings. Just like everything else. Wenger and Ferguson have the luxury of being able to afford those mistakes, as do a lot of managers. I don't like the Maguire situation, but we cannot judge it as a waste of money just yet. At least we aren't paying wages out on scouts..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Croft, Maguire, Addison, Martin, Cywka, Leacock, Bywater, Pearson. I suppose Adam Pearson should get a special mention for inept management as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodys woman Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 I don't particularly agree with the maguire situation and loan being extended to the end of the season but if Clough had picked him in the match after Cardiff, I would have questioned his sanity, maguire was their best player in the first half, he was awful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 just doesnt make sense are football clubs really that much of a money drain or badly run business. It would appear so. Of the Championship teams 2010/11, it seems all except one lost money, and all but about 6 lost more money than DCFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 It would be interesting to know the level of debt that each club's owners can sustain. ie How long can Boro keep runnng at that level of wages before Gibson says enough is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Its more and more looking like Clough is to blame for our current predicament. If he'd been a poor manager we would have ousted the board by now. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> If my boss said to me "you currently pay £16m in wages. You need to reduce that to £8m but improve the output of the workforce at the same time", I would say, "lucky for you I'm feckin brilliant and can do it, them other numpties would have no chance". 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> If results this season had been worse, then there is no doubt the fans would have turned on Clough. Yet, perhaps its purely down to Clough that we didn't do a Leeds, Lessta, Forest, Sheff U, Sheff W, Charlton, Southampton, etc, etc and plummet straight through to Division 3. Perhaps, despite the most severe wage reduction any manager has ever been asked to oversee, ever, in the history of internet forums, we are in a position where we could possibly still snatch a play off place with 6 games to play. Its highly unlikely,( but on current form we could win 4 (possibly 5) out of the last 6 quite easily which would put us periously close. Ok i'm talking tosh (as usual), but Nige deserves a break is what I'm saying. He's always gonna be the target for moans as he is the guy picking the team every week. Every poor performance is down to him, and I can understand that. Done it mesen many times over the years. But the situation we are in at the moment is different. Nige took the job, we assume, knowing the financial limitations, its why he has kept his mouth shut (mostly) and got on with quietly trying to create a squad out of nothing when his rivals have had almost unlimited cash to spend on fees and wages (forest/leicester). It looks like he's done the hard, dirty work.He's shifted the big earners out yet not been able to use the money saved to replace them. So its shopping around at primark when really you'd rather get decent gear from Limeys (is it still open?) Its my opinion that Clough has earned the right to be trusted and given the funds to get the 2 or 3 quality players that can make a difference in this league. GSE must be approaching the point of "**** or bust", either invest for a pop at the Premier League or bail out and try and get some one to buy them out without noticeably huge losses (to protect their image). The tide will, imo, turn against the board if (when?) they sack Nige. They will have very little time before the weak, fans protests last season, turn into real "get the board out" demos. The sort that no board has ever survived over the last 40 years. As you walk into Derby, you're heart will skip a beat You'll get your fookin heads kicked in if you try to lie and cheat You'll walk onto the Popside, and hear a mighty roar. Fook off you robbing bast@3ds, we are the Derby boys. who are ya? who are ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I think the Derby approach is going to become pretty much the norm. Us fans have to get the Chelski, Man City "buying success" out of our heads. It's old news! The only fly in the ointment for me are the parachute payments for those relegated from the prem. Radical I know but I would stop them which would mean players contracts likely having to have massive relegation clauses in them. Heaven forbid the staff (players) who cause relegation should have to pay for the consequences with a massive drop in wages! This wouldn't be mandatory so if clubs wanted to continue to pay excessive wages in the Championship they could but with no help for failure from the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 If my boss said to me "you currently pay £16m in wages. You need to reduce that to £8m but improve the output of the workforce at the same time", I would say, "lucky for you I'm feckin brilliant and can do it, them other numpties would have no chance". 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> To be a bit more critical of Clough, it's like you'd been told to reduce the wage bill by £8m but told it's not too bad, you've got a workforce full of highly overpaid underperformers with contracts that mostly end in the next 2-3 years. Ride it out (like he has done), offload where you can (not that easy as they're mostly overpaid and underperforming) and wait till you can ditch them and replace with non-substandard staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 then we might be at a point where we can actually move the workforce forwards and improve in key areas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotherhamRam Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Now call me a sceptic. We have apparently bled £7 million over the last season. Confused about this when the season before we posted healthier accounts when we had players like Hulse, Commons, Bywater, Leacock etc with big wages still on the books. We have had more players go out than coming in etc. The cynical part of me remembers the story about the plaza costing around £7million to develop and that this would not come out of the club, the team etc. that figure and the deficit for the accounts posted seem very similar. Do you think creative accounting has occured to cover the fact that actually the plaza is actually coming out of the accounts or is it that we have managed the accounts so badly last season since we have cut the wage bill then we did when we had the high earners here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippy Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 How would a league table for financial 'viability' look, hopefully we would appear somewhere near the top?? 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 We had the parachute payments the year before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Tibbs Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I have no idea where we sit financially compared to others in this league but listening to Andy Garner on Radio Derby pre-match he seems to think we have a bottom 6 budget, does anyone know how accurate this claim is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 I have no idea where we sit financially compared to others in this league but listening to Andy Garner on Radio Derby pre-match he seems to think we have a bottom 6 budget, does anyone know how accurate this claim is? I'm pretty sure these comments are based on the squad they're actually using,as opposed to the wage bill including all the deadwood-the 2 will be quite different.I guess he's basing his assessment on the following players:- Buxton,Fielding,Legzdins,Brayford,Shackell,Barker,Roberts,Naylor,Hendrick,Bryson,Bavies,Savies,Bailey,Green,Ward,Ball,Theo,Tyson,Doyle (and you could add Bennett+Hughes,without troubling the scorers too much).Obviously,there have been odd appearances by others,but this represents the core.Thereafter it's all about judgement-looking at the list,I form the opinion that he's probably right. The accounts don't particularly help.Total staff costs for 10/11 (so we're already talking history) came in at £13.244m (some may prefer to work on the gross pay figure of £11.629m,excluding Employers' NIC).It should be noted that this figure includes all staff (including directors,eg Glick).A quick look at the club's website shows that there appear to be quite a few well paid jobs included on the non playing side.There are also close to 100 full time jobs and 40 part time jobs (on average through the year) that are non playing (including the 'named jobs I've just spoken of).It should also be remembered that some big earners on the playing side have left in the interim. It seems clear to me that the wages figures must include past contract buyouts (which may well have been phased in some cases)-if you buy out a contract you're effectively accelerating the payment of wages.The fall in total wages in 10/11 (compared to 9/10) was over £3m,and by looking at total staffing numbers over the 2 years it would appear that well over £2m of this must be player related.This figure is greater than the difference between the players' wages figures given for the 2 years (even taking the lowest of the £9 to £10m given for 10/11, £10.5m having been given for 9/10),which in turn leads me to think that wages figures given for players don't include the contract buy outs,but an extension of the logic says that published total wages figures must (unless the players' wages figures given to us were inaccurate and the fall of well over £2m actually represents players' wages without contract buy outs). In essence,the accounts don't help but do give indicators.It's all down to personal judgement on wages for the squad I mentioned earlier-to me there appear to be a lot of low earners within (no disrespect to the players concerned,as I'm appreciative of the 100% effort they all put in for the benefit of the club I support). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Just realised I missed Maguire off my list of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McRamFan Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 Just realised I missed Maguire off my list of players. Bah got excited that you had published another financial gem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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