ramblur Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Thanks for the reply, and agree with a lot of what you have said. I think it was also mentioned earlier that there was a rumor that one of the backers had changed their stance, or withdrew the offer of capital? Anyway, we have an interesting summer ahead! Seems like a convenient excuse (unofficial) cobbled together some time after the event to me.If this had been the case,the owners should have informed the fans,otherwise they(the renewers) would effectively have been making decisions based on a misrepresentation.I notice that Glick now says that players' wages aren't being disclosed because it makes it more difficult dealing with agents.Come off it,Tom,agents know everything-they talk to their own client players (who no doubt fill them in on other players) and they talk amongst themselves.How on earth is the disclosure of an aggregate figure going to make negotiations more difficult? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curb Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 The exit strategy was to sell us for £300 Billion once we'd won the Champions League, established ourselves as a global brand, franchised us out to the Chinese playing all our games at 3 in the morning to cater for the billions watching in North America in our extended 120,000 seater stadium sponsored by McDonalds, Pepsi and Microsoft. I can't imagine where it went wrong TBH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 In the interest of fairness,I'll now show the extent of net investment in players since 08/09.For those with copies of the accounts,you can get the purchases from note 8 attached to the accounts "Intangible fixed assets" and look along the line "additions".The figures I show in brackets represent add ons in the form of agents' fees and league levy,the other figures represent total cost.The final figure comes from "Post balance sheet events",at the end of the accounts,which only gives the total figure. For sales you need to look at the cashflow statement.The penultimate figure is derived from the 10/11 balance sheet under "current assets" and the final figure again comes from PBSE. Purchases 08/09 5.240 (0.863) 09/10 2.952 (0.544) 10/11 1.401 (0.323) PBSE 2.467 Total £12.060m Sales 08/09 4.413 09/10 1.483 10/11 0.374 outstanding 10/11 0.519 PBSE 0.196 Total £6.985m It should be noted that sales are net proceeds-in some cases the owners will have saved money that they would have otherwise have had to pay out.Purchases represent the value of the players,not what has actually been paid out (in other words what will eventually be paid,unless sold).Because players are often bought in June,it's impossible to identify all players to a particular season. I noticed that the DET said that because a group of players were bought in June,their purchase would have affected the 10/11 results.The fact that a hefty figure is indicated in PBSE might suggest otherwise. Why have my columns been destroyed-should I have done something (I've absolutely no word processing skills,so don't talk to me about tabs etc!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 £5.2m from purchases? Hulse, S Davies, Dickinson were all fees in that season and totaled around £3.5m. All the other purchases were frees. What am I missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Varney and Porter another 1.4m in that season. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CumbrianRam Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Nathan Ellington's loan fee too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Varney and Porter another 1.4m in that season. Thanks, I completely forgot about them 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Nathan Ellington's loan fee too. Either Ellington or Hulse actually figure in the 07/08 accounts,something I was only able to discover because it features in the part year General Sports accounts.Of course,because of my generous nature,I didn't mention this when defending the legacy left by the LOG.Seem to remember the figure was about £1.7m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 £5.2m from purchases? Hulse, S Davies, Dickinson were all fees in that season and totaled around £3.5m. All the other purchases were frees. What am I missing? I thought you'd all latch onto 09/10-that's the one that has me scratching my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I thought you'd all latch onto 09/10-that's the one that has me scratching my head. I see what you mean (purchases and sales). We spent £1.2m on Moxey and Barker. Croft Buxton, Pringle, Deeney, Hendrie and Anderson all being frees/nominal. But I suppose the 10-15 players we had on loan must cover the other £1.8m. However, we sold Mears (£.5m), Villa (£1.5m), Dickinson and Nyatanga (£.8m), and everyone else leaving on a free. A total of £2.8m where it states £1.5m in the figures you've given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 The accounts do me head in - everything is for 12 months prior to the date so its so hard to put them into context. Well done Ramblur for attempting to educate the more financially challenged among us. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Would it be fair to sum it up in lay man's terms as......board out, tits out? 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JW- Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 The accounts do me head in - everything is for 12 months prior to the date so its so hard to put them into context. Well done Ramblur for attempting to educate the more financially challenged among us. 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Would it be fair to sum it up in lay man's terms as......board out, tits out? 'http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> Lets go for the hat trick, mods out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uttoxram75 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Lets go for the hat trick, mods out! And who do you think will protect you from cyber-bullies, trolls, wums and spammers without us mods. Why, you would be at the mercy of people like Boycie. He's like a half starved pitbull straining at the leash to bite yer head off. down boy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 I see what you mean (purchases and sales). We spent £1.2m on Moxey and Barker. Croft Buxton, Pringle, Deeney, Hendrie and Anderson all being frees/nominal. But I suppose the 10-15 players we had on loan must cover the other £1.8m. However, we sold Mears (£.5m), Villa (£1.5m), Dickinson and Nyatanga (£.8m), and everyone else leaving on a free. A total of £2.8m where it states £1.5m in the figures you've given. Back to the drawing board,I'm afraid.Loans don't feature as fixed assets (and in any event I think most loan fees are a myth and merely represent a fee charged by the donor club to cover an agreed portion of wages),the only exception being loans expected to convert into permanents,as with Varney and Ellington (in other words giving value over more than one accounting period,and therefore subject to amortisation).Ellington was a strange one, where we as good as paid a transfer fee but then decided we didn't want him (but he would have initially been treated as a fixed asset because of the expectation of longer service).My money's on Varney being the missing ingredient as he was a loan without a transfer fee till the next year.I also think he cost more than the £1m often quoted.The net cash it looks as though we received for him is a shocker.. As far as sales go,you have to remember that they'll be net of anything we still owed to other clubs.Obviously Nyatanga would be exempt from this,but you have to say it looks as though we didn't get what we thought for others.That's undisclosed fees for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Free transfers may be interesting cases because,although there's no transfer fee (and no asset value) involved,they might still be brought into the accounts where agents' fees are involved (and at the value of such fee).I'm not absolutely sure on this,but my instincts tell me this would be the case. Signing on fees don't feature-they're treated (and charged to P/L) as an expense in the year they arise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Varneys fee was paid in January 09 when his loan became permanent so part of that could be on 09-10 but will also figure on 08-09 accounts too wouldn't it. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenportram Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Didn't Brayford and Bailey join during the 09-10 accounting period too .Uep joined May 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Varneys fee was paid in January 09 when his loan became permanent so part of that could be on 09-10 but will also figure on 08-09 accounts too wouldn't it. . That firmly fixes him as a purchase in 08/09-you can only appear this way once (think you may be confusing this with the fact that he would continue into the following year as a depreciating asset). Everyone should realise that the figures I gave were total figures-to get the aggregate transfer fees you have to subtract the figures in brackets (the add ons). On the sales side,the figures given might not relate wholly to the periods given,because money might have been owed at the start of the year,ditto at the end of the year.I only really did the exercise to show there had been a net spend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramblur Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Didn't Brayford and Bailey join during the 09-10 accounting period too .Uep joined May 2010 Unfortunately that doesn't seem as clearcut as before,because as I'd mentioned elsewhere, there were a cluster of players who apparently joined in last June that don't appear to figure in the 10/11 accounts,other than in PBSE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted April 5, 2012 Author Share Posted April 5, 2012 Just noticed that the interest free loans from the investors are 'secured', does anyone know what these are secured against? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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