Millions and billions

[TigerTedd]

I’m doing a business plan in Excel. It’s fun to adjust the figures to a very best case scenario and see that this time next year I’ll be a millionaire.

i get about £15 per transaction. In my wildest dreams I might do 3000 transactions a month. That’s £45,000 a month. That’s £540,000 a year. 

now for me that’s an eye watering amount of money and would set me up for life. But what I’m hoping my whole company will earn in a month, baring in mind I’ve got overheads and staff wages to pay, an average footballer earns in a week. 

Even just hypothetically playing around, I can’t even imagine the amount I’d need to do to make a million a year. Not to mention the fact that it would be taxed to f***. But is still be living the dream.

So, the point of all this is, how do millionaires earn so much money? How is there so much money in the world and normal people can barely imagine the vast sums. 

And billionaires earn millions a day. Where does all this money come from? Surely there’s enough money in the world for every one to earn a very healthy wage each year. 

Maybe when AI has taken all our jobs, we could set it on the task of redistributing the wealth. 

Edited January 20 by TigerTedd

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, TigerTedd said:

Maybe when AI has taken all our jobs, we could set it on the task of redistributing the wealth. 

Think most of your post is probably rhetorical, but the above is an interesting conundrum. The government trialled UBI in a couple of regions in England beginning June 2023. Ultimately, that's going to be how things go, I reckon as AI in all its forms, will replace huge numbers of workers and probably very soon.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jun/04/universal-basic-income-of-1600-pounds-a-month-to-be-trialled-in-england

[Stive Pesley]

1 hour ago, TigerTedd said:

And billionaires earn millions a day. Where does all this money come from? Surely there’s enough money in the world for every one to earn a very healthy wage each year. 

did you see this? 

https://www.fastcompany.com/91011703/davos-2024-millionaires-billionaires-demand-wealth-tax-abigail-disney-group

it always baffled me how people with extreme wealth could possibly need all that money - there must be a cut off where you simply don't need any more. Because it starts to accrue so quickly - if you have £10m in savings, you're easily earning half a million quid just in interest - and that's in a bog standard high street account - realistically they would be investing it in much more profitable places

At least that letter puts paid to the old nonsense trope that all the millionaires would leave the country if we taxed them too much!

[Comrade 86]

3 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

did you see this? 

https://www.fastcompany.com/91011703/davos-2024-millionaires-billionaires-demand-wealth-tax-abigail-disney-group

it always baffled me how people with extreme wealth could possibly need all that money - there must be a cut off where you simply don't need any more. Because it starts to accrue so quickly - if you have £10m in savings, you're easily earning half a million quid just in interest - and that's in a bog standard high street account - realistically they would be investing it in much more profitable places

At least that letter puts paid to the old nonsense trope that all the millionaires would leave the country if we taxed them too much!

Problem is though that even if we do tax the super-rich, where does that tax get spent? It's certainly not on the welfare state, so it makes no difference to those most in need. Seems to me that if it's not the 1% hoovering up all the cash, then the politicians and their mates are always next to arrive at the table. 

[TigerTedd]

3 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

Think most of your post is probably rhetorical, but the above is an interesting conundrum. The government trialled UBI in a couple of regions in England beginning June 2023. Ultimately, that's going to be how things go, I reckon as AI in all its forms, will replace huge numbers of workers and probably very soon.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jun/04/universal-basic-income-of-1600-pounds-a-month-to-be-trialled-in-england

To be honest, I’m not entirely sure if I was coming to a point. But I got there in the end. 

Sometimes I just think, there is so much money out there in the world. Why can’t I seem to get my hands on any of it?

and then I realise I’m probably not the only one thinking this way. Why can’t we all get our hands on it?

id be ecstatic with a mil a year. I’d be ecstatic with half a mil a year. I’d be ecstatic with half that even. How much does a person really need to live a comfortable, happy life.

there should be a rule. A mil a year, that’s the most anyone could possibly need. After that you get taxed 100%. 

[i-Ram]

10 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

To be honest, I’m not entirely sure if I was coming to a point. But I got there in the end ……. there should be a rule. A mil a year, that’s the most anyone could possibly need. After that you get taxed 100%. 

A mil a year?! That’s just my bar bill.

[Crewton]

I think once you've reached an income level that enables you to live "free" from financial concerns, your future happiness depends on your ability to manage higher levels of income without adding to your stress or damaging your health.

For some wealthy people, the love of money is a sickness and the more they get, the more true contentment becomes elusive.

[Ram-Alf]

10 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

id be ecstatic with a mil a year. I’d be ecstatic with half a mil a year. I’d be ecstatic with half that even. How much does a person really need to live a comfortable, happy life.

£16,250...that's how much, I'm single and mortgage free and 68 in 3 months time, I don't owe anyone anything, I refuse to have credit and don't own a credit card, I pay everything on my debit card or cash, I live in a 2 bed semi bungalow, I sold my car recently(free bus pass)still shop in the whoops isle at times...not because I can't afford the other things but because I get a deal, I go out on the lash once a week, I can holiday anywhere in the world I choose as I can afford too, But I choose to stay in the UK.

I wake up every Morning with a smile on my face and it's nowt to do with my genitalia, Life is great, Yes money plays a huge part in my life as I've earned it through hard work and investments, I've had nowt...back in the early 80s when millions had nowt life was tough, I've walked miles to get free food parcels(Thanks David Bookbinder)to feed our family...there's more...but I can see posters getting teared up 😉

I wish you well in your endeavours to chase the end of the rainbow, but be careful as life is what you make it and money can fcuk with your mind if that's all you're focussed on.  

[Grumpy Git]

47 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

£16,250...that's how much, .....

Is that a week or a month RA?

Asking for a friend. 🤔

[Ram-Alf]

12 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said:

Is that a week or a month RA?

Asking for a friend. 🤔

A year 👍, It's easy if you like a game, I treat life as a huge game/challenge, I like to get in the mind of those who would like to fcuk us over, I have done all my working life, Rolls Royce back in the 90s when I 1st started there showed me what money was worth, I worked silly hours, Invested in shares and had a very very good life, I've heard men offering other men out in the car park as they got 1 hour more overtime than the other person, As Crewton posted "the love of money becomes a sickness" be aware what you wish for as there's some out there who would take it off you.

 

[SillyBilly]

12 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

To be honest, I’m not entirely sure if I was coming to a point. But I got there in the end. 

Sometimes I just think, there is so much money out there in the world. Why can’t I seem to get my hands on any of it?

and then I realise I’m probably not the only one thinking this way. Why can’t we all get our hands on it?

id be ecstatic with a mil a year. I’d be ecstatic with half a mil a year. I’d be ecstatic with half that even. How much does a person really need to live a comfortable, happy life.

there should be a rule. A mil a year, that’s the most anyone could possibly need. After that you get taxed 100%. 

Why can't you get your hands on it? Easiest thing in the world to do is lose money, hardest thing to do is make it. Easy to work for someone else (and I have in the past) and let them roll the dice too. I've lost a lot, made a lot for what its worth.

I personally think the phrase "walk a mile in someones' shoes" ought to apply before musing too long on how "ecstatic" wealthy people must be with their lot. And do that, you need to do that. I.e. Go and create the multi £M business from scratch, employ dozens of people (who when the going gets tough move from your biggest asset to your biggest liability), be responsible for huge loans/financial obligations that require personal guarantees far in excess of any financial assets you have (and the sleepless nights that come with it). Grass is always greener on the other side, employee and owner looking enviously at each other. Believe it or not, I've been envious of my staff in the past to not have the incessant worry that the contract you've just won will be your last, to get a regular pay cheque at month end, to have the next bank holiday off and 25 days leave (while I work 51 weeks a year, every bank holiday)...sack it all off and get a "normal" job where somebody else has to make all the taxing decisions and I just do what I'm told. Oh what a fantasy!

There is a lot of delusion in the U.K. that wealthy people are "elites" and somehow out of touch. In my experience (half my phone book are fairly sizeable SME owners) 90% are the most industrious people you could meet (send them an email at 1am and you get a reply at 1.10am), not born with money and with massive risk appetites that would make ordinary people throw up with worry. And also entirely comfortable with the idea of being solely responsible for their own fate/income (vast majority want the security of the State or an employer). Their mindset is totally different. Yet we focus on politicians or landed gentry/inherited money as if they're wholly representative.

So beyond arbtriary made up numbers on a page, I'd question not how difficult it is to imagine spending that sum of money but how difficult it is to get there, and once you are there with a target on your back, how difficult it is to stay there and whether you are the sort of person who (realistically, be honest with yourself) could do it. You NEVER switch off, never. 

I think most people like the look of the boss's chair but I'm fairly confident 6 months in the hotseat for most would put a lot of people in hospital with stress/anxiety. And if you think anyone takes this on for a 100% tax rate, well...Karl Marx as an idol is unlikely to make a good businessperson IMO, probably more suited to setting up a charity. If you post under a business forum under the same name I think I know you who are, I post under the same name too, so if that is the case not doubting you have a small enterprise under your wing, but I don't think you have to worry about all that cash just yet 😛

 

[ramit]

11 hours ago, Ram-Alf said:

£16,250...that's how much, I'm single and mortgage free and 68 in 3 months time, I don't owe anyone anything, I refuse to have credit and don't own a credit card, I pay everything on my debit card or cash, I live in a 2 bed semi bungalow, I sold my car recently(free bus pass)still shop in the whoops isle at times...not because I can't afford the other things but because I get a deal, I go out on the lash once a week, I can holiday anywhere in the world I choose as I can afford too, But I choose to stay in the UK.

I wake up every Morning with a smile on my face and it's nowt to do with my genitalia, Life is great, Yes money plays a huge part in my life as I've earned it through hard work and investments, I've had nowt...back in the early 80s when millions had nowt life was tough, I've walked miles to get free food parcels(Thanks David Bookbinder)to feed our family...there's more...but I can see posters getting teared up 😉

I wish you well in your endeavours to chase the end of the rainbow, but be careful as life is what you make it and money can fcuk with your mind if that's all you're focussed on.  

Some very wealthy folks would read something like this and say to themselves, yeah that's what the not so rich tell themselves to feel better about their lives, poor sods haha.  That's how far removed from comprehending real contentment some rich lost souls are.

[Ram-Alf]

9 minutes ago, ramit said:

Some very wealthy folks would read something like this and say to themselves, yeah that's what the not so rich tell themselves to feel better about their lives, poor sods haha.  That's how far removed from comprehending real contentment some rich lost souls are.

At RR I was around millionaires, CEOs, Directors, Business owners as I was a Senior Union Official there, They have a different tack on life...imo, Treat the working classes as a different body of people, Someone to look down on, I'm a watcher and listener, I try to suss out their strengths and weaknesses, One of their weaknesses is they have no communication skills...ie streetwise, Hit them where it hurts at the conference table so their fellow business types keep their mouths shut.

The working classes are the salt of the earth and a pain in the arse, I had one lad who came up to me when at RR and gave me a box, I opened it and there sat a chocolate cake, His wife baked it for me as a thankyou...all I did was what I was voted in for, That one year his 1st year at RR he got 5 wage rises thanks to the Union...that one gesture almost had me in tears and meant the world ☺️ others just take you for granted...it came with the territory 😉  

[TigerTedd]

2 hours ago, SillyBilly said:

90% are the most industrious people you could meet (send them an email at 1am and you get a reply at 1.10am), not born with money and with massive risk appetites that would make ordinary people throw up with worry. And also entirely comfortable with the idea of being solely responsible for their own fate/income (vast majority want the security of the State or an employer). Their mindset is totally different. Yet we focus on politicians or landed gentry/inherited money as if they're wholly representative.

You’ve pretty much described me a to a tee there.

im not sure what business forum I’m part of (although I have signed up to a lot of things with the same user name), but you are right that I don’t have to worry about installing a Scrooge mcduck swimming pool just yet. I’ve been starting businesses since 2009, or even before that since I was a freelance graphic designer at uni. But it’s always been a slog just to break even. 

There’s something different about this latest venture though. It’s very exciting, and moving at a ridiculous pace. I think, as much as I’m that person you describe, I’m missing something to take it to the next level. More than 150 ish transactions a day would terrify me. That’s when I would have to start thinking about a big work force. Up to 150 transactions a day and I can still pretty much handle this myself, with my trusty wife at my side, and maybe an apprentice. Beyond that, we’re talking investors and offices and that’s all a bit scary.

but that’s kind of what I was getting at in the original post. There is that next next level where that isn’t so scary, and once you make your first million the second comes easier. I always set that money breeds money. And I guess it all snowballs from there. I don’t think I’ll ever be at that next next level. Like I couldn’t imagine being the owner of Tesco, for example, with thousands of staff and locations and things to manage. That’s all just too big for my tiny mind to comprehend.

not saying they don’t earn their money, but I just wouldn’t know what to do with that kind of money. 

[TigerTedd]

4 hours ago, Ram-Alf said:

£16,250...that's how much, I'm single and mortgage free and 68 in 3 months time, I don't owe anyone anything, I refuse to have credit and don't own a credit card, I pay everything on my debit card or cash, I live in a 2 bed semi bungalow, I sold my car recently(free bus pass)still shop in the whoops isle at times...not because I can't afford the other things but because I get a deal, I go out on the lash once a week, I can holiday anywhere in the world I choose as I can afford too, But I choose to stay in the UK.

I wake up every Morning with a smile on my face and it's nowt to do with my genitalia, Life is great, Yes money plays a huge part in my life as I've earned it through hard work and investments, I've had nowt...back in the early 80s when millions had nowt life was tough, I've walked miles to get free food parcels(Thanks David Bookbinder)to feed our family...there's more...but I can see posters getting teared up 😉

I wish you well in your endeavours to chase the end of the rainbow, but be careful as life is what you make it and money can fcuk with your mind if that's all you're focussed on.  

This is great. And without wishing my life away, it sounds like paradise. 

but… it’s like all those films where the dad walks away from his big business trip to watch his kid hit the home run in the big game. That’s all well and good. But it doesn’t show the epilogue where the dad is fired and the family end up living under a bridge.

real life means having to earn a living. I often find myself torn between, am I working too hard and not spending enough time with my kids, or am I working hard now so that they’ve got a financially secure future and in a couple of years time we can go on great holidays and I can spend loads of time with them. And if I keep doing that, how long does it take, how long can I keep saying ‘this time next year’ before I start changing my goals to spending time with the grandkids instead, because I’ve missed the opportunity with the kids entirely?

[Ram-Alf]

36 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

This is great. And without wishing my life away, it sounds like paradise. 

but… it’s like all those films where the dad walks away from his big business trip to watch his kid hit the home run in the big game. That’s all well and good. But it doesn’t show the epilogue where the dad is fired and the family end up living under a bridge.

Paradise is a place in the mind, Do the good things and life is good to you, Even the simple things can make life worthwhile.

We didn't quite live under a bridge, March 81 until Oct 84...no work, Miners strike, Falklands war, 5million on the dole...but bad enough👎

My Epilogue

2 offspring, Male and Female, Both are doing extremely well in their lives and I'd like to think that somewhere along that road I had a little influence, I've made some bad decisions in my personal life things I'm not to pleased about...but history stays the same...it can't be changed, When at RR the money was pouring in, She too was working, Holidays in the States/Canada, 2 trips to Europe every year, Meals out, Weekends away, On the lash from Friday to Sunday night with others of the same ilk.

Then life changes in one instance and it all falls apart, We split up(9 years ago)now divorced, All the things we did became routine, Beer, Football, Bedroom activity, Family, Holidays, We were together for 40 years, She bailed as she'd had enough and fare play to her, It took me a full year to work out how to cook, Work a washing machine/hoover/Iron and all the other things that come with being on your own, I've had 5 Lady friends all great in their own right, But each had things that I couldn't or wouldn't handle, So excused myself and bailed out.

Now 9 years down the line, I love life, I can choose where, When and how I live, No one to look after, I see friends occasionally and have a beer and a giggle, Then back home to a place I love, Being single for some is the end of the world...for me it's a new day and the game continues...☺️

   

Edited January 21 by Ram-Alf

[Elwood P Dowd]

Paradise is a place in the mind
The above is very true.

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Edited January 21 by Elwood P Dowd

[TigerTedd]

19 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

Paradise is a place in the mind, Do the good things and life is good to you, Even the simple things can make life worthwhile.

We didn't quite live under a bridge, March 81 until Oct 84...no work, Miners strike, Falklands war, 5million on the dole...but bad enough👎

My Epilogue

2 offspring, Male and Female, Both are doing extremely well in their lives and I'd like to think that somewhere along that road I had a little influence, I've made some bad decisions in my personal life things I'm not to pleased about...but history stays the same...it can't be changed, When at RR the money was pouring in, She too was working, Holidays in the States/Canada, 2 trips to Europe every year, Meals out, Weekends away, On the lash from Friday to Sunday night with others of the same ilk.

Then life changes in one instance and it all falls apart, We split up(9 years ago)now divorced, All the things we did became routine, Beer, Football, Bedroom activity, Family, Holidays, We were together for 40 years, She bailed as she'd had enough and fare play to her, It took me a full year to work out how to cook, Work a washing machine/hoover/Iron and all the other things that come with being on your own, I've had 5 Lady friends all great in their own right, But each had things that I couldn't or wouldn't handle, So excused myself and bailed out.

Now 9 years down the line, I love life, I can choose where, When and how I live, No one to look after, I see friends occasionally and have a beer and a giggle, Then back home to a place I love, Being single for some is the end of the world...for me it's a new day and the game continues...☺️

   

That’s awesome. In a word, life. You got me worried now that my wife will grow tired of me after 40 years. (15 years this month (I believe we got married on the same day this forum was founded)).

but I guess your story goes to show that you can have set backs and they probably suck at the time, but you find a new normal one way or the other, and then those set backs are just history. So no need to worry. 

PS during the period you mention, I was born. So it wasn’t all bad. 

[SillyBilly]

1 hour ago, ramit said:

Some very wealthy folks would read something like this and say to themselves, yeah that's what the not so rich tell themselves to feel better about their lives, poor sods haha.  That's how far removed from comprehending real contentment some rich lost souls are.

Perhaps some would but I don't know any of them and I know a few personally. IME, they're ordinary people with perhaps extraordinary bank balances, to say otherwise would be giving too much credit in any case. So I doubt there would be much of an investment in time comprehending anyone elses' contentment vs their own, another families problems or concerns vs their own etc. So as ordinary as anyone else in every other way. Its the same problems for everyone IMO, money doesn't shelter anyone from relationship problems, deaths, internal struggles etc. 

FWIW I don't think (rich) people are easily able to draw a line of before and after either. As if you morph into a different person and suddenly start seeing the world differently. Perhaps if an angle is to portray a "them and us" mentality then that may apply, for me, it doesn't. You earn £20-30k a year? Well, your lifestyle adjusts to the income, along with all its challenges. Earn £60k? Your lifestyle adjusts. Earn £120k, again it moderates, the transition almost seamless through the income levels. £250-500k...you'd be surprised how this then becomes a new "normal", just like the £20-30k once did. However, at no point do you wake up and feel any different, you're the same person. May not be worrying about the rent payment at month end on the latter end of the scale but life feels much the same apart from that. If I went back to square one I would adjust back to a new income...because I'd have to, its as simple as that. And still nowhere I feel more comfortable than my modest childhood home, never leaves you.

Anyway, I'm at risk of trying to defend when I only want to offer my perspective, which could be different to others. I know I wouldn't have bothered without financial reward though, pay me a wage and I'd deliver in accordance to what I feel that wage deserves in terms of effort. I've always had pride in any work at any payscale, PAYE or own businesses, but with the former its wrapped in conditions, so I can understand a union mentality (as per Ram-Al). Albeit, uncap it in the latter and I will be incentivised to make things happen. One of my businesses is an appreciable exporter so I like to think these are jobs I have genuinely brought to the U.K., all of those jobs started as an idea in my head at some point in time, ideas which cost me money with no returns for quite a few years in some cases, a lot of sweat equity too...but in the end, genuine income in foreign currency coming into our country (not recirculating the same currency within domestic services) & a lot of tax money to pay for public services. If you capped at some point along the way, with a hypothetical 100% above an arbitrary number as postulated upthread, what is the incentive for people like me to do anything other than create my own job, hire a few employees to whatever the limit the then government decides is "reasonable" for me to live off? Fundamental misunderstanding of human nature, even if that nature is not liked. We live in an international world, if we don't fulfil the export need here, someone else would in another country.

 

[Ram-Alf]

32 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

That’s awesome. In a word, life. You got me worried now that my wife will grow tired of me after 40 years. (15 years this month (I believe we got married on the same day this forum was founded)).

but I guess your story goes to show that you can have set backs and they probably suck at the time, but you find a new normal one way or the other, and then those set backs are just history. So no need to worry. 

PS during the period you mention, I was born. So it wasn’t all bad. 

Thanks ☺️

I regularly speak to a neighbour a couple of mins away, He's 92 and been married for 72 years...so you'll be fine 👍

We were married as teenagers, Missed a shedload of early life, But made up for it in later years, Age and attitudes drove us apart.

I have something that money can not buy...contentment 😉